Bmw 130i or focus st facelift

[IainC101]

HJMS123 said:

IainC101 said:

I've owned both (as well as an R26 and a MK5 R32) and strangely have to say i actually preferred the ST over the 130i. Although the driving position is a bit high the 5 cylinder engine makes the car, especially with a remap, i also found the Recaros to be the comfiest seats i've sat in. I found that the BMW had overly heavy feeling steering and didn't quite live up to what i expected it to be for reasons i could never really pin point, even after getting rid of the run flats etc, maybe i just had a tired one. The interior, whilst classic BMW felt very dated, though mine was a 55plate so i think that was improved slightly with the newer ones. Neither look particularly amazing but my grey 130i was especially dull to look at, which is good or bad depending on how you look at it. On the whole though although i'm sounding a bit down on the BMW i thought both were really good cars. Both are good choices with great engines which ever one you end up choosing.

Which was your favourite hatch out of them all?

Now that i think about it i'm not too sure really! I only kept them for about 8 months each and i'm currently on the R32. They all had their own merits and flaws. The ST remapped had a lot of grunt and made fantastic noises and was a very comfy place to be but the high driving position could isolate you from the experience a bit on twisty roads. The Megane could go round corners unbelievably fast and was great when you were in the mood for it on a nice twisty road but i always found the 4 cylinder turbo engine a bit uncharasmatic and the vacuum cleaneresque noise it made was pretty odd! I found with the R26 I had to be absolutely flying to be enjoying it, whereas the other three provided more enjoyment at lower speed. The BMW i loved the throttle response/engine and the RWD characteristics but as i say i never really gelled with how it felt to drive overall, it just seemed to feel a bit skittish and as if the handling wasn't quite dialed in right (i'm not sure if that was just my one) and i never got any sort of joy looking at it. The golf i've found really good so far, whilst I often wish it had a bit more power, I can get enjoyment out of just listening to it, i think it looks subtle enough whilst not looking dull, handling has surprised me too as i didn't expect it to be so fun to drive.

I think if you were after a hot hatch purely for blasting around on country roads the Megane wins hands down, but as something to live with all the time and get enjoyment out of wherever i think the R32 has been my favourite. But i can equally see why someone would prefer any one of them, it all depends on what you want from it really.

[gizlaroc]

Hell27 said:

Well it is an open discussion and many of the attributes of the 1 series are offset by its looks. I simply offered an alternate valid opinion. No need for the flaming!

Ahh, whose a sensitive little soldier in the mornings?

I get where you're coming from, but the 1 series is far closer to hot hatch and a lot more chuckable and fun.

[Podie]

IainC101 said:

I think if you were after a hot hatch purely for blasting around on country roads the Megane wins hands down,...

Driven a few examples, and they are a riot - but you do feel like you need to be "on it" to enjoy them properly.

[gizlaroc]

IainC101 said:

The BMW i loved the throttle response/engine and the RWD characteristics but as i say i never really gelled with how it felt to drive overall, it just seemed to feel a bit skittish and as if the handling wasn't quite dialed in right (i'm not sure if that was just my one) and i never got any sort of joy looking at it.

Did you get it on some decent, proper, tyres?

[Hell27]

gizlaroc said:

Hell27 said:

Well it is an open discussion and many of the attributes of the 1 series are offset by its looks. I simply offered an alternate valid opinion. No need for the flaming!

Ahh, whose a sensitive little soldier in the mornings?

I get where you're coming from, but the 1 series is far closer to hot hatch and a lot more chuckable and fun.

Whaaaah! )

[IainC101]

gizlaroc said:

Did you get it on some decent, proper, tyres?

Yeah, first thing i did was get rid of the runflats and put it on new goodyear eagle f1's which have been perfectly good in my experience before. As i say, mine might have just been tired, it was still a very good car, just I didn't feel it was quite up to the hype it gets.

[sixpistons]

I think the Focus probably has the better ride and handling balance out of the box. I'd echo the comments about the 130i feeling skittish - the damping is crap and really saps confidence when you're driving quickly. Ditching the run flats helps a lot, but they aren't the whole problem. The rear axle also doesn't feel very well located as the subframe bushes give too much lateral compliance, which contributes to the nervous feel at the rear of the car. The issues can be overcome with a few upgrades however. The engine in the BMW is a masterpiece, with an enormously wide spread of torque, a lovely noise and excellent throttle response. Despite its flaws I love mine.

[DukeDickson]

KarlMac said:

Had a 2010 Focus ST for 35,000 miles. Standard performance is crap, needs the MP260 with Eibach springs and Bilstien dampers and some Ferodo DS2500 pads as a minimum.

They also seem to have a habit of breaking niggling little things - recirc valve, boost solenoid, oil filter diaphragms, driveshafts. The paint finish can be quite rough and the interiors don't age well (fewer rattles in my 02 scoob).

Never had any of those, bar the oil diaphragm, which has the potential to be a bit less than trivial. However, the pig iron engine is tough as old boots as standard, even if the performance is below the bimmer.
Interiors will probably creak a bit (maybe quite a bit), but don't actually age that badly. Crappier but hard plastics etc see to that.


All based on getting towards 4.5 times your mileage


Still, would probably gravitate towards a 130, if only for rwd & last of a line of great engines (if you don't want FI and don't want/can't have an M, for whatever reason).

[DukeDickson]

DavidJG said:

One other thing. OP mentions wanting a discreet car. I think the 130 fits this description better. I wouldn't call the ST discreet it subtle!

Oh, have driven both, 130 every time for me!

The ST is probably more discrete than you might think in certain colours. Invisible grey does OK, especially when filthy & not lovingly cared for.

[KarlMac]

DukeDickson said:

KarlMac said:

Had a 2010 Focus ST for 35,000 miles. Standard performance is crap, needs the MP260 with Eibach springs and Bilstien dampers and some Ferodo DS2500 pads as a minimum.

They also seem to have a habit of breaking niggling little things - recirc valve, boost solenoid, oil filter diaphragms, driveshafts. The paint finish can be quite rough and the interiors don't age well (fewer rattles in my 02 scoob).

Never had any of those, bar the oil diaphragm, which has the potential to be a bit less than trivial. However, the pig iron engine is tough as old boots as standard, even if the performance is below the bimmer.
Interiors will probably creak a bit (maybe quite a bit), but don't actually age that badly. Crappier but hard plastics etc see to that.

The highlighted part just isn't true. Google 'Focus ST cracked liner' and then recoil in horror. Be under no illusion that this engine is in anyway related to the bomb proof Volvo 2.3 or D5 units. This engine was made at the height (or depth) of Ford's recession penny pinching and it really shows. As an example the torque is electronically limited in first and second to protect the cheap clutch and driveshafts.

[GM182]

I had a 130i for a year last year. Great as others have said for engine, RWD and performance.

The let down for me was the dull and dark interior, otherwise I probably could have kept it for quite a while.

[CharlesAL]

Is it straightforward to find a set of tyres for the 130? I read earlier that they were an odd size and could be hard to find.

[J18NHS]

CharlesAL said:

Is it straightforward to find a set of tyres for the 130? I read earlier that they were an odd size and could be hard to find.

Er NO!

There as easy to come by a s any other tyre iv come across, from recollection I fitted 225's up front and 235's on the rear. GY eagle F1 asym and where readily available

[CharlesAL]

Excellent. Didn't think that would be true when I first read it. Definitely near the top of my list for when I sell my Golf.

[CharlesAL]

Excellent. Didn't think that would be true when I first read it. Definitely near the top of my list for when I sell my Golf.

Edited by CharlesAL on Monday 27th October 19:43

[DonkeyApple]

CharlesAL said:

Excellent. Didn't think that would be true when I first read it. Definitely near the top of my list for when I sell my Golf.

It is a pain if you need a tyre same day as they do seem to be a size on the fronts that firstly their isn't huge choice in and secondly most centres have to order in.

So no problem if you want to buy quality tyres that are suitable for the car's performance and plan ahead. Need one instantly and it can be a ballache. Want to be a cheapskate and buy cheap crap then you might struggle.

I suspect that many of the tales of not being able to buy tyres for them are actually tales of people not being able to buy used, Chinese retreads etc.

However, a much more significant issue with regards to tyres and buying a used 130 is that to save money many people opt for a wider front tyre as they are much cheaper. In Bimmer forums you find people claiming it makes the car look more manly on wider fronts or that it drives better. This is all Barry Talk. Wider tyres on the front of a 130 destroys it. It ruins the turn in and and the feel as well as the handling. It's a car that already runs too much rubber than is ideal and adding more really screws it.

So, when looking at buying a used one if it doesn't have a full set of the right size tyres and of a decent brand then frankly you need to make the seller pay up for a new set of proper tyres.

[DukeDickson]

KarlMac said:

DukeDickson said:

KarlMac said:

Had a 2010 Focus ST for 35,000 miles. Standard performance is crap, needs the MP260 with Eibach springs and Bilstien dampers and some Ferodo DS2500 pads as a minimum.

They also seem to have a habit of breaking niggling little things - recirc valve, boost solenoid, oil filter diaphragms, driveshafts. The paint finish can be quite rough and the interiors don't age well (fewer rattles in my 02 scoob).

Never had any of those, bar the oil diaphragm, which has the potential to be a bit less than trivial. However, the pig iron engine is tough as old boots as standard, even if the performance is below the bimmer.
Interiors will probably creak a bit (maybe quite a bit), but don't actually age that badly. Crappier but hard plastics etc see to that.

The highlighted part just isn't true. Google 'Focus ST cracked liner' and then recoil in horror. Be under no illusion that this engine is in anyway related to the bomb proof Volvo 2.3 or D5 units. This engine was made at the height (or depth) of Ford's recession penny pinching and it really shows. As an example the torque is electronically limited in first and second to protect the cheap clutch and driveshafts.

I must be lucky then. Still on that first cheap clutch @ 154k and only put about 1.25 litres of oil in the thing (outside of regular servicing) in that time. Most of that was as a result of driving it around for a little while after the damn oil diaphragm committed hari kari. Hadn't used a drop until that happened (somewhere around 100k).


I do occasionally wonder how much of this kind of thing is down to driving style, going nonstandard & the like. Rather like the 20mpg and less moans. Yes, it isn't quite the same engine as the 2.3, but hardly combustible and rather unstressed as standard. There are far worse out there.

[Podie]

KarlMac said:

As an example the torque is electronically limited in first and second ....

As it is in a lot of cars.

Lots of cars have issues and BMW aren't excluded - the nikasil lining issues were as prevalent as any other engine issue.

[Heathrow]

I've owned both. A pre-facelift ST and currently own a 130i. They both have their merits, and are good in different ways. The ST has a softer set up and the engine's power delivery encourages a relaxed driving experience, which is oddly counter intuitive given it's a hot hatch. I tended just to enjoy the torque rather than rev the car hard all the time. The engine in the ST sounds great though, and the extra kit as standard (I had an ST-2) was welcome. The Recaros are comfy and although set a little high I didn't find it an issue. The cabin is a nice place to be. The 130i is addictive. The engine has a cultured induction note which you can enjoy at low and moderate speeds with partial throttle openings and the car sounds purposeful whilst still remaining relatively discreet. The engine loves revs though and accelerating out to the red line lets you enjoy that straight six howl. The steering is excellent (mine is an earlier car with hydraulic steering). Personally, in standard tune, the combination of RFTs and the standard dampers creates a very skittish driving experience which is frustrating in that you can feel at the rear the tyres are never really keyed into the Tarmac as the car skips and hops over bumps. I sorted this with the Birds B1 kit which includes a different ARB, together with Continental SC5s. That said, the ride is still firm when compared with the ST. I haven't got the Quaife diff which others have recommended. The car also looks much better with the optional, but rare, rear spoiler as someone else mentioned above! On a practical level there is much more room in the Focus (rear and boot) but fuel costs are about the same (27 mpg). Test them both and see how you get on.

[HJMS123]

IainC101 said:

Now that i think about it i'm not too sure really! I only kept them for about 8 months each and i'm currently on the R32. They all had their own merits and flaws. The ST remapped had a lot of grunt and made fantastic noises and was a very comfy place to be but the high driving position could isolate you from the experience a bit on twisty roads. The Megane could go round corners unbelievably fast and was great when you were in the mood for it on a nice twisty road but i always found the 4 cylinder turbo engine a bit uncharasmatic and the vacuum cleaneresque noise it made was pretty odd! I found with the R26 I had to be absolutely flying to be enjoying it, whereas the other three provided more enjoyment at lower speed. The BMW i loved the throttle response/engine and the RWD characteristics but as i say i never really gelled with how it felt to drive overall, it just seemed to feel a bit skittish and as if the handling wasn't quite dialed in right (i'm not sure if that was just my one) and i never got any sort of joy looking at it. The golf i've found really good so far, whilst I often wish it had a bit more power, I can get enjoyment out of just listening to it, i think it looks subtle enough whilst not looking dull, handling has surprised me too as i didn't expect it to be so fun to drive.

I think if you were after a hot hatch purely for blasting around on country roads the Megane wins hands down, but as something to live with all the time and get enjoyment out of wherever i think the R32 has been my favourite. But i can equally see why someone would prefer any one of them, it all depends on what you want from it really.

Thanks for the reply Iain, reason I asked is that I currently have an R26 and I've been looking at R32's over the summer. As much as I love the Megane, it's a bit too extreme at times. Finding an R32 in the spec I want though, Blue, 3 door, dsg and leather is proving very difficult.

Edited by HJMS123 on Monday 27th October 13:04