The voice of L J K Setright

[longblackcoat]

NomduJour said:

You do know that What Car? still exists?

Never read it.

I just don't think that LJKS was half as good as he's held out to be. Bulgin was far better, and I'd go so far as to say that early Clarkson is superior to much of LJKS's output. A completely different viewpoint, obviously, but far more to my taste.

[Note: I did say early Clarkson. I'm not sure he's written an original word in the last decade, maybe longer. But when he was young he was excellent.]

[sinbaddio]

I used the writing of LJK to persuade my non car enthusiast father that a subscription to Car magazine would be a worthy birthday present. It was 1984, I was 12. To my absolute joy my father agreed and continued to renew my subscription for many years, and I even caught him taking a peek from time to time!

[NomduJour]

Half as good in what way?

Must admit that I never really warmed to Bulgin's writing at the time, although Performance Car-era Clarkson (mildly) amused me as a schoolboy.

[Garvin]

Well I would never have considered it possible for Clarkson to be compared, let alone considered superior, to LJKS in the writing stakes!

I loved Clarkson when he first started writing for Performance Car, he was completely different, a breath of fresh air and extremely amusing but he had absolutely no clue regarding design and engineering, and still doesn't, when it comes to anything remotely technical. His writing is based on pure emotion. I dare say he could/can construct sentences in a grammatically correct way but a lot of his writing is in the vernacular.

LJKS was the antithesis of Clarkson in almost all respects. He wasn't, IMHO, always correct about things but he would always explain why he held the views he did and write about them with an eloquence that Clarkson could/can only dream about.

[otolith]

Breadvan72 said:

He was probably a climate change denier, amongst other things.

I suspect that if he were writing about it now, his position would be more nuanced than that. I think he would talk about the incontrovertible physics involved and the extent to which warming is forced by CO2 levels. I think he would then talk about the extent to which climate models speculate upon the generation of much greater warming through positive feedback via factors like increased water vapour, methane release and loss of reflective ice cover and go on to talk scathingly about the extent to which uncertainties in those speculations are glossed over. I think he would be annoyed that the communication of the science is politicised and would consider it more important that society makes an informed choice based on an understanding of the risks than that it is frightened with worst case scenarios into making a choice which has already been decided to be the prudent one. I think he would be irritated that the private motor car is disproportionately selected as the target of measures to force changes in lifestyle to reduce CO2 emissions. I think he would come to a conclusion about what ought to be done which would be entirely consistent with a denialist position, but which would not actually be based on that premise.

[Mermaid]

Refreshing. Thanks for posting.

[gforceg]

otolith said:

I suspect that if he were writing about it now, his position would be more nuanced than that. I think he would talk about the incontrovertible physics involved and the extent to which warming is forced by CO2 levels. I think he would then talk about the extent to which climate models speculate upon the generation of much greater warming through positive feedback via factors like increased water vapour, methane release and loss of reflective ice cover and go on to talk scathingly about the extent to which uncertainties in those speculations are glossed over. I think he would be annoyed that the communication of the science is politicised and would consider it more important that society makes an informed choice based on an understanding of the risks than that it is frightened with worst case scenarios into making a choice which has already been decided to be the prudent one. I think he would be irritated that the private motor car is disproportionately selected as the target of measures to force changes in lifestyle to reduce CO2 emissions. I think he would come to a conclusion about what ought to be done which would be entirely consistent with a denialist position, but which would not actually be based on that premise.

I think that's what you think.

[otolith]

gforceg said:

I think that's what you think.

I think I'm probably more tolerant of political expediency than LJKS was.

[longblackcoat]

Garvin said:

LJKS was the antithesis of Clarkson in almost all respects. He wasn't, IMHO, always correct about things but he would always explain why he held the views he did and write about them with an eloquence that Clarkson could/can only dream about.

Absolutely the antithesis, but Clarkson's early stuff (yes, I was reading Performance Car back then as well) I found to be funny, sarcastic, polemical, but most of all interesting. Massively influenced by PJ O'Rourke, of course.

LJK Setright was frequently correct, but I found his articles to be tedious in the extreme. And that's before he started banging on about bloody Hondas and Bristols, at which point I'd usually give up.

[BGarside]

robinessex]readvan72 said:

I do not agree with all that Setright wrote. He was probably a climate change denier, amongst other things.

I hope he would've been. We need a few on our side.

Yes you do, given the 97% scientific consensus pro warming...

Reading Car mag. with LJKS' articles in it was part of my teenage education, but I did find him excessively verbose and at that age I didn't understand many of his references.

It felt like he was showing off much of the time, not to mention posing for the camera with a strange variety of hats, suits and cigarettes....

It's a shame though that current motoring journalists don't go into the technical and engineering aspects of the cars they test in anything like as much detail as Setright used to.

[anonymous-user]

longblackcoat said:

Breadvan72 said:

I do not agree with all that Setright wrote. He was probably a climate change denier, amongst other things. He was not, however, inveterately opposed to modernity, and welcomed many innovations. His best technical writing was probably done in the 60s and 70s. Later on he had a persona to maintain.

His prose style was that of an highly educated and Latinate writer. Notwithstanding my satire of his style above, he was not in fact verbose

Really?

"Sculptor Alberto Giacometti said that his pieces were justified by the shadows they made. Thus the sculpture, which (like the Chrysler Crossfire) is tangible, is reduced to something intangible. The Crossfire is not as simple as a Giacometti, for it casts its shadows in space and in time."

"You will remember the subaltern who, asked the place of cavalry in war, described its function as "lending tone to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl". The CBX does the same for motorcycling, with that effortless superiority which is the mark of the true aristocrat. Alas, a man is often ill at ease with a silver spoon if he was not born with one in his mouth, and it is not difficult to identify among motorcyclists that same resentful rejection of the best because of lack of familiarity with the best. It is a kind of craven lack of confidence, as though a mortal man were offered Aphrodite but, daunted by the prospect, ran back home to the girl next door."

That is not what I would call verbose. Not a word is wasted. You might say that the style is somewhat florid.

[judas]

LJKS certainly polarises opinion but can we please keep this discussion to his car writing and not speculate on his attitude to climate change lest this otherwise interesting subject goes the rapidly down the pan as many other discussions do when this controversial subject gets thrown, handgrenade-like, into the mix.

Edited by judas on Thursday 23 October 14:37

[longblackcoat]

Breadvan72 said:

That is not what I would call verbose. Not a word is wasted. You might say that the style is somewhat florid.

I'd say that a good 50% of the words are wasted in those quotes, but that's a matter of opinion!

[EdJ]

Thanks OP for posting this. I was also an avid reader of Car magazine as a child in the 80s and then as an adult in the early 90s. Setright, Bulgin, Green, Bishop, Barker, Kacher etc - all conjure up fond memories of the thrill and excitement of having just purchased the latest issue of the magazine.

[outnumbered]

I haven't read much of his work, but always remember this quote: "Speed does not kill. Speed saves. It saves life by saving time, which amounts to the same thing".

[robinessex]

And another:-

The only traffic offence should be dangerous driving

[zeppelin101]

FRA53R said:

Why don't we do something about it? We have many people with a talent for writing, engineering, driving. Why not make Pistonheads the beacon for those who wish to know about cars and the automotive industry in greater detail and with more enthusiasm than is found in mainstream journalism.

Whenever engineering is generally brought into a discussion though, it is either ignored unless coming from the keyboards of certain individuals, or causes a massive and pointless argument as individuals with no experience of the subject in question try to shoot holes in the people who work on the stuff every day.

See any discussion regarding a development engine with a turbocharger attached to it or electrified powertrains in this section.

[anonymous-user]

Economy of expression: "A carburetor lets the engine have what it wants. Fuel injection gives the engine what it needs."

[FRA53R]

zeppelin101 said:

FRA53R said:

Why don't we do something about it? We have many people with a talent for writing, engineering, driving. Why not make Pistonheads the beacon for those who wish to know about cars and the automotive industry in greater detail and with more enthusiasm than is found in mainstream journalism.

Whenever engineering is generally brought into a discussion though, it is either ignored unless coming from the keyboards of certain individuals, or causes a massive and pointless argument as individuals with no experience of the subject in question try to shoot holes in the people who work on the stuff every day.

See any discussion regarding a development engine with a turbocharger attached to it or electrified powertrains in this section.

Very True, I've often been disappointed when looking into an interesting thread to find it's degenerated into a pointless and regularly aggressive argument.

[Zad]

Its not a bad intro clip either! The motorbike equivalent of the BRM H16.