Discussion
plasticpig said:
It requires consideration from both sides. I tend to find there as many inconsiderate cyclists as there are drivers. I drive quite a bit in an area where clubs hold time trials and there are many large gatherings of cyclists. I find these cyclists are usually far less considerate than the people out for a leisurely Sunday cycle or commuting cyclists.
You may well be right, but what's that got to do with cyclists having to manoeuvre round potholes and other hazards?It's unsurprising that there are a similar proportion of knobs cycling and knobs driving. They're the same humans after all.
Mr Will said:
Hol said:
This isnt a negotiation. Its a debate based on facts and rule.
However, if it helps, we could look at the rules around how ALL road users must pass a stationary obstacle in the road. In an emergency or seen in advance.
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that a cyclist is in a lane all of their own and are swerving in to "your lane" when you are trying to pass. They aren't. You are in the same lane as them and attempting to pass without leaving sufficient room.However, if it helps, we could look at the rules around how ALL road users must pass a stationary obstacle in the road. In an emergency or seen in advance.
Kindly stop trying to involve me as a party in your own personal opinions, by inventing ficticious scenarios/stories that involve me personally ('my lane').
I have not suggested any such scenario/stories in this entire thread.
Hol said:
However, if it helps, we could look at the rules around how ALL road users must pass a stationary obstacle in the road. In an emergency or seen in advance.
The problem is, there is no practical one size fits all rule, that's why there's the "give cyclists room" rule. There is an implication here that potholes are an occasional hazard to cyclists, but they aren't- they are probably every 50 yards or so. So I'd be sticking my hand out every 5 seconds and probably be getting it hit by people overtaking too closely! (and also wobbling more due to sticking my hand in and out all the time...)
Hol said:
wolves_wanderer said:
Hol said:
SteveSteveson said:
Hol said:
However:
Sudden avoidance in an emergency and the rules that allow it - is NOT the same thing as seeing something in advance and being too complacent to bother looking to see if its safe to avoid and indicating your intent so that approaching vehicles can use their own mirrors/signals and plan to avoid you.
THAT is my point - you can make your own assumptions.
What on earth has that got to do with rule 213?Sudden avoidance in an emergency and the rules that allow it - is NOT the same thing as seeing something in advance and being too complacent to bother looking to see if its safe to avoid and indicating your intent so that approaching vehicles can use their own mirrors/signals and plan to avoid you.
THAT is my point - you can make your own assumptions.
Surely if someone has time to see an obstacle in the road and indicate to pull round it you should also see that obstacle, anticipate that they are going to have to move round it, and not be overtaking as it is not safe?
"163
Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so."
Im sure in the real world of cylcing every manouvre 'may' be an emergency under rule 213??
Those man hole covers do have a habit of jumping out on you a split second before you need to swerve and avoid them (EVERY TIME).
Please can you therefore point out where I said that I have ever had to swerve to avoid a cyclist, due to a manhole cover.
To date, I have not included myself in any scenario's. And its not something I would do personally.
Mave said:
Hol said:
However, if it helps, we could look at the rules around how ALL road users must pass a stationary obstacle in the road. In an emergency or seen in advance.
The problem is, there is no practical one size fits all rule, that's why there's the "give cyclists room" rule. There is an implication here that potholes are an occasional hazard to cyclists, but they aren't- they are probably every 50 yards or so. So I'd be sticking my hand out every 5 seconds and probably be getting it hit by people overtaking too closely! (and also wobbling more due to sticking my hand in and out all the time...)But, the only way the cyclists and motorists on this forum are ever going to find peace is if they stop pussy footing around and agree exactly what the rules of the road are:
Othwise, we will have a purpetual cycle (not an intentional pun) of posts about 'Red lights' and 'Mobile phones' somehow being the reason for nobody even bothering to consider the rules in the first place.
I don't think anyone really 'wants' to run over a cyclist, and I dont think any cyclist 'wants' to end up under the tyres of a bus or car.
SteveSteveson said:
Diderot said:
And if a cyclist doesn't have the observational skills or intelligence to avoid getting crushed to death by merrily filtering up the left of HGVs, busses and coaches, then they should not be cycling at all.
All I ever hear in these threads are cyclists moaning about the state of the roads, car drivers, cycle lanes, filtering, HGV drivers etc. But the fact is no one is forcing you to ride a bike. Suck it up or take a bus.
All I hear is car drivers complaining about other road users, pot holes, the price of petrol. Suck it up or take a bus.All I ever hear in these threads are cyclists moaning about the state of the roads, car drivers, cycle lanes, filtering, HGV drivers etc. But the fact is no one is forcing you to ride a bike. Suck it up or take a bus.
No one was talking about going up the inside of an HGV. This was about people not giving enough room when overtaking or getting annoyed that sometimes cyclists need to go round lumps bumps and holes in the road.
wolves_wanderer said:
xcellent. I don't know why you're worried about the rules then as you will be out of the way of any cyclist whether he avoids an obstruction gradually or suddenly
Thats always been a given in this conversation.Which is why it has been annoying to be told I have 'my lane'.
Hol said:
I agree that would probably be the outcome in the scenario, Mave (every 50 yards etc).
But, the only way the cyclists and motorists on this forum are ever going to find peace is if they stop pussy footing around and agree exactly what the rules of the road are.
Well, my interpretation is clear to me :-) On my bike, most of the time the left hand metre or so are "mine" and I should be able to pick around potholes without indicating all the time, but I will be keeping an eye / ear out for people passing closely. For moving past a big obstruction like a car I'll be having a good look and signal before I move. Note, in this case I consider I have priority to change position in my lane(unless someone has started an overtake)- I'm sticking my hand out as a warning, not to ask permission, as I'm already in my lane (although I'll abort if someone decides to overtake anyway)But, the only way the cyclists and motorists on this forum are ever going to find peace is if they stop pussy footing around and agree exactly what the rules of the road are.
The guy on the BMX is obviously a dick (with a good kick), and the guy on the disabled bike wasn't riding as defensively as he could have been. There's no way I would ride one of those low bike things in central London - asking for trouble. He could have been driven over by that coach. I cycled 14 miles a day in London for 3 years (on a hybrid/pointless) and it was rare to have a journey without the opportunity for death. It's about awareness - something that cyclists and drivers are, as a whole, equally poor at.
Guy on the proper bike knew the BMX guy was there and left with a choice of brake or hit the bus, BMX guy gets the last laugh and kicks the wheels from underneath his bike. Pair of pricks if you ask me.
It must have been a really long look over his shoulder to miss the BMX guy, you can see the cyclist in front taking quick glances over his right shoulder to access overtaking traffic, a quick glance is all that is needed.
I can't believe this has turned into a car v bike thread with petty arguments on both sides.
It must have been a really long look over his shoulder to miss the BMX guy, you can see the cyclist in front taking quick glances over his right shoulder to access overtaking traffic, a quick glance is all that is needed.
I can't believe this has turned into a car v bike thread with petty arguments on both sides.
RichB said:
wevster said:
...I can't believe this has turned into a car v bike thread with petty arguments on both sides.
Always does, it's the same with every bicylist thread on Pistonheads. Still, got to be a driver's fault somehow, eh?
Angry City the car vs bus vs bike vs pedestrian edition. I cycle so that I don't need to shop at Jacamo and only ride rural routes but even then there's always frustrated pillocks everywhere just looking for excuses to get upset and have a pop at someone. was pedalling along a few months back staying out of everybody's way when Mr Tax Credits came haring up behind me in this 55 plate 1 series s
tter and finding he had to slow down to safely get past sounded his horn and thought it would be a good idea to ask me if I paid tax on the way past. I assume he meant VED but the irony is judging by his inability to spend anymore than a few grand trying to get himself into some German metal I am likely to pay a greater deal more than him in overall taxation. I didn't think it advisable to inform him of this as it would have been as much a waste of time trying to explain the tax credits are still benefits but that the clever men I. The government call them something else so that the paupers do not feel stigmatised.
tter and finding he had to slow down to safely get past sounded his horn and thought it would be a good idea to ask me if I paid tax on the way past. I assume he meant VED but the irony is judging by his inability to spend anymore than a few grand trying to get himself into some German metal I am likely to pay a greater deal more than him in overall taxation. I didn't think it advisable to inform him of this as it would have been as much a waste of time trying to explain the tax credits are still benefits but that the clever men I. The government call them something else so that the paupers do not feel stigmatised.
what an odd post.
daveky said:
Angry City the car vs bus vs bike vs pedestrian edition. I cycle so that I don't need to shop at Jacamo and only ride rural routes but even then there's always frustrated pillocks everywhere just looking for excuses to get upset and have a pop at someone. was pedalling along a few months back staying out of everybody's way when Mr Tax Credits came haring up behind me in this 55 plate 1 series stter and finding he had to slow down to safely get past sounded his horn and thought it would be a good idea to ask me if I paid tax on the way past. I assume he meant VED but the irony is judging by his inability to spend anymore than a few grand trying to get himself into some German metal I am likely to pay a greater deal more than him in overall taxation. I didn't think it advisable to inform him of this as it would have been as much a waste of time trying to explain the tax credits are still benefits but that the clever men I. The government call them something else so that the paupers do not feel stigmatised.
All your posts have the unmistakeable hallmarks of a moron with wealthy people/immigrants/benefits chip on his shoulder.tter and finding he had to slow down to safely get past sounded his horn and thought it would be a good idea to ask me if I paid tax on the way past. I assume he meant VED but the irony is judging by his inability to spend anymore than a few grand trying to get himself into some German metal I am likely to pay a greater deal more than him in overall taxation. I didn't think it advisable to inform him of this as it would have been as much a waste of time trying to explain the tax credits are still benefits but that the clever men I. The government call them something else so that the paupers do not feel stigmatised.If you feel inferior to them, you probably are.
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