RE: Nissan GT-R MY14: Review
Discussion
liner33 said:
Looking at your car history it appears to lack anything interesting at all !
Really? So, a classic Rover, a Capri or a V8 BMW don't count as interesting? Besides, what I've driven isn't restricted to what I've owned. Furthermore, the laws of physics still apply, and I know a reasonable amount about chassis engineering. A really stiff setup like you find in stock Evos and GTRs simply isn't conducive to real-world traction on bad surfaces.liner33 said:
I totally agree the GTR's size makes it less than easy to hustle down B road but it was claimed that a 15 year old BMW Saloon can easily keep up with one , which is total rubbish
Come and see my local B-roads. There's just no way of being able to put that kind of power down short of having all three of the following: 4WD, soft suspension and a load of ground clearance. They're twisting, rutted, off-camber, potholed, every corner or summit is blind, there are unimaginably valuable race-horses all over them (LaFerrari? P1? Mere pocket change by comparison!) and the surfaces are usually being pushed up by tree roots. No drainage to speak of and, at this time of year, leaves and tree branches all over them too. I can keep up with an Evo or GTR easily on these roads, but a well-driven Range Rover or Cayenne can leave me for dead.The one exception to the above are McLarens, which seem to operate on an air cushion, floating millimetres above the surface. They are absolutely mighty, in a totally different league to the GTR.
Edited by RoverP6B on Monday 3rd November 16:53
Batster said:
I had a MY12 GTR and did nearly 45k miles in it in 2.5 years as a daily commuting car, where commute comprised bumpy B, twisty A and some dual carriageway. I used it in all weathers and the car was sensational, never failing to provide driving pleasure and engagement. The ride is hard even in comfort but it's perfectly bearable for me and my family.
For me there is no quicker point to point real world car. Had lots of other quick metal and allegedly more involving cars but the GTR does it better and with a performance envelope that is accessible and thrilling. The fact that it does the family car thing when needed and is mechanically bomb proof no matter how hard it is driven, plus you can track it , means that it unique in my eyes.
Yes they are expensive to run if you use regularly like I did but I thought it was a relative bargain at £70k, given all of the above.
If you spend time with one like I did you realise pretty soon that this is no play station drive - makes my blood boil when armchair critics say that - this is a machine that gets under your skin and has serious depth of character. Like an onion, you peel it back a layer at a time and it is well worth the effort - I was still learning new dimensions to it after two years.
I foolishly sold mine when I stopped commuting last year and miss it everyday. I feel very lucky to have owned one and will be back for more when the new one emerges.
End of sermon!
Coming around here with your stories of ownership and real world experience...what would you know about the GTR you haven't even posted 500 times!! you need to have posted 500 times on GTR threads alone to have a valid opinion.For me there is no quicker point to point real world car. Had lots of other quick metal and allegedly more involving cars but the GTR does it better and with a performance envelope that is accessible and thrilling. The fact that it does the family car thing when needed and is mechanically bomb proof no matter how hard it is driven, plus you can track it , means that it unique in my eyes.
Yes they are expensive to run if you use regularly like I did but I thought it was a relative bargain at £70k, given all of the above.
If you spend time with one like I did you realise pretty soon that this is no play station drive - makes my blood boil when armchair critics say that - this is a machine that gets under your skin and has serious depth of character. Like an onion, you peel it back a layer at a time and it is well worth the effort - I was still learning new dimensions to it after two years.
I foolishly sold mine when I stopped commuting last year and miss it everyday. I feel very lucky to have owned one and will be back for more when the new one emerges.
End of sermon!
RoverP6B said:
Come and see my local B-roads. There's just no way of being able to put that kind of power down short of having all three of the following: 4WD, soft suspension and a load of ground clearance. They're twisting, rutted, off-camber, potholed, every corner or summit is blind, there are unimaginably valuable race-horses all over them (LaFerrari? P1? Mere pocket change by comparison!) and the surfaces are usually being pushed up by tree roots. No drainage to speak of and, at this time of year, leaves and tree branches all over them too. I can keep up with an Evo or GTR easily on these roads, but a well-driven Range Rover or Cayenne can leave me for dead.
The one exception to the above are McLarens, which seem to operate on an air cushion, floating millimetres above the surface. They are absolutely mighty, in a totally different league to the GTR.
A) Range Rovers are leaving you behind because they are the only things that can see over blind crests and over hedges into blind corners.The one exception to the above are McLarens, which seem to operate on an air cushion, floating millimetres above the surface. They are absolutely mighty, in a totally different league to the GTR.
Edited by RoverP6B on Monday 3rd November 16:53
B) Should you actually be driving quick enough on those types of roads to draw conclusions about the pace of GTRs?
RoverP6B said:
A really stiff setup like you find in stock Evos
RoverP6B said:
Come and see my local B-roads. There's just no way of being able to put that kind of power down short of having all three of the following: 4WD, soft suspension and a load of ground clearance. They're twisting, rutted, off-camber, potholed, every corner or summit is blind, there are unimaginably valuable race-horses all over them (LaFerrari? P1? Mere pocket change by comparison!) and the surfaces are usually being pushed up by tree roots. No drainage to speak of and, at this time of year, leaves and tree branches all over them too. I can keep up with an Evo or GTR easily on these roads, but a well-driven Range Rover or Cayenne can leave me for dead.
I get the impression that you don't actually know how to pedal a car down a B road, or have no actual experience of GTRs or Evos.Infact I'm going to call troll. No way are you being serious
Having driven in convoy with GT-Rs in an array of conditions, I've been able to observe that while they outpace almost everything else on a dry, smooth surface - a damp, autumnal B-road is certainly not their ideal habitat for a number of reasons:
- Dimensions
- Rear-biased AWD system - I've seen GT-Rs with TC on slew sideways requiring significant corrective lock when applying power in a straight line on a wet road - in the wet they resemble a powerful RWD more than an AWD Evo, Subaru or Audi
- 305/30 section tyres are not conducive to bumps, leaves and dirt on the road
- Spring and damper rates are optimised for smooth A-roads rather than your average pock-marked B-road, though I'm sure the Litchfield suspension is a massive improvement.
Under such conditions a decent hot hatch will easily hold station with a GT-R assuming the drivers are of equal and average skill. As soon as the road opens up and dries, however - the GT-R walks away.
Make no mistake, this in no way detracts from the appeal of the R35 (in fact it may actually enhance its appeal), but anyone who thinks its a point-and-squirt all-weather car or dismisses it as a car that "drives itself" clearly has no idea of what they're talking about.
- Dimensions
- Rear-biased AWD system - I've seen GT-Rs with TC on slew sideways requiring significant corrective lock when applying power in a straight line on a wet road - in the wet they resemble a powerful RWD more than an AWD Evo, Subaru or Audi
- 305/30 section tyres are not conducive to bumps, leaves and dirt on the road
- Spring and damper rates are optimised for smooth A-roads rather than your average pock-marked B-road, though I'm sure the Litchfield suspension is a massive improvement.
Under such conditions a decent hot hatch will easily hold station with a GT-R assuming the drivers are of equal and average skill. As soon as the road opens up and dries, however - the GT-R walks away.
Make no mistake, this in no way detracts from the appeal of the R35 (in fact it may actually enhance its appeal), but anyone who thinks its a point-and-squirt all-weather car or dismisses it as a car that "drives itself" clearly has no idea of what they're talking about.
Edited by plenty on Monday 3rd November 19:28
-Z- said:
A) Range Rovers are leaving you behind because they are the only things that can see over blind crests and over hedges into blind corners.
B) Should you actually be driving quick enough on those types of roads to draw conclusions about the pace of GTRs?
It isn't merely down to being able to see (no amount of height will help in this instance!), it's about suspension travel and compliance. I don't drive flat out down such roads by any means, but I've still followed GTRs at such speeds and watched them skipping and jumping and crashing around, frequently being able to see air under a wheel.B) Should you actually be driving quick enough on those types of roads to draw conclusions about the pace of GTRs?
StottyEvo said:
I get the impression that you don't actually know how to pedal a car down a B road, or have no actual experience of GTRs or Evos. Infact I'm going to call troll. No way are you being serious
While I don't know how old you are, looking at your PH garage, I'd say I've probably been driving since long before you were born - I wouldn't be surprised if your parents are younger than me. I am well able to make rapid progress cross-country, within the limits of what the road will allow, and have frequently been able to show theoretically rather faster machinery a clean pair of heels - although some of that may be bred by familiarity, as most of my driving tends to be repetitive to the extent that I'd almost be unsurprised if my cars remembered the key routes for themselves!Plenty, I've already said that, given a reasonably well-surfaced A-road, a GT-R would doubtless leave me for dead - but given what the majority of the UK's roads are like, I'm not sure that it is actually all that well-suited to this country. Whether one is in a Lotus or a Bentley or Rolls-Royce, there is often a noticeable sense that cars developed and set up in the UK are those which work best here - says a man who hasn't run a British car for 22 years - the languid poise of Jaguars of old being a case in point. My 535i comes fairly close to that (I can still hardly believe how fast I drove the Exeter to Stockbridge section of the A30, the broad and smooth B3049 to Winchester and A31 to Guildford on the night I collected it, two and a half weeks ago - its composure despite cheap tyres and foul weather was staggering), but I'd love to go back to owning British (Jaguar being the only choice now). I'd be interested, however, to hear what Litchfield can do to a GT-R's chassis. Do they do suspension work on non-Nissan stuff as well?
RoverP6B said:
Come and see my local B-roads. There's just no way of being able to put that kind of power down short of having all three of the following: 4WD, soft suspension and a load of ground clearance. They're twisting, rutted, off-camber, potholed, every corner or summit is blind, there are unimaginably valuable race-horses all over them (LaFerrari? P1? Mere pocket change by comparison!) and the surfaces are usually being pushed up by tree roots. No drainage to speak of and, at this time of year, leaves and tree branches all over them too. I can keep up with an Evo or GTR easily on these roads, but a well-driven Range Rover or Cayenne can leave me for dead.
The one exception to the above are McLarens, which seem to operate on an air cushion, floating millimetres above the surface. They are absolutely mighty, in a totally different league to the GTR.
One question - have you ever sat in or driven a GT-R? The one exception to the above are McLarens, which seem to operate on an air cushion, floating millimetres above the surface. They are absolutely mighty, in a totally different league to the GTR.
Edited by RoverP6B on Monday 3rd November 16:53
I cannot for the life of me imagine a road (i.e. something with at least some tarmac on it) in the UK that a Range Rover would cover more quickly than a GT-R, drivers being equal. You haven't cornered the market on crap B-roads in your area, we have plenty around here and a local (very rough) one used to be where I would take people to show how capable the GT-R is. One in particular has a blind sharp drop which bottoms out and upsets just about anything I've tried, but the GT-R (in Comfort) could handle it at frankly ridiculous speeds in total control.
Batster said:
I had a MY12 GTR and did nearly 45k miles in it in 2.5 years as a daily commuting car, where commute comprised bumpy B, twisty A and some dual carriageway. I used it in all weathers and the car was sensational, never failing to provide driving pleasure and engagement. The ride is hard even in comfort but it's perfectly bearable for me and my family.
For me there is no quicker point to point real world car. Had lots of other quick metal and allegedly more involving cars but the GTR does it better and with a performance envelope that is accessible and thrilling. The fact that it does the family car thing when needed and is mechanically bomb proof no matter how hard it is driven, plus you can track it , means that it unique in my eyes.
Yes they are expensive to run if you use regularly like I did but I thought it was a relative bargain at £70k, given all of the above.
If you spend time with one like I did you realise pretty soon that this is no play station drive - makes my blood boil when armchair critics say that - this is a machine that gets under your skin and has serious depth of character. Like an onion, you peel it back a layer at a time and it is well worth the effort - I was still learning new dimensions to it after two years.
I foolishly sold mine when I stopped commuting last year and miss it everyday. I feel very lucky to have owned one and will be back for more when the new one emerges.
End of sermon!
100% this. For me there is no quicker point to point real world car. Had lots of other quick metal and allegedly more involving cars but the GTR does it better and with a performance envelope that is accessible and thrilling. The fact that it does the family car thing when needed and is mechanically bomb proof no matter how hard it is driven, plus you can track it , means that it unique in my eyes.
Yes they are expensive to run if you use regularly like I did but I thought it was a relative bargain at £70k, given all of the above.
If you spend time with one like I did you realise pretty soon that this is no play station drive - makes my blood boil when armchair critics say that - this is a machine that gets under your skin and has serious depth of character. Like an onion, you peel it back a layer at a time and it is well worth the effort - I was still learning new dimensions to it after two years.
I foolishly sold mine when I stopped commuting last year and miss it everyday. I feel very lucky to have owned one and will be back for more when the new one emerges.
End of sermon!
RoverP6B said:
Plenty, I've already said that, given a reasonably well-surfaced A-road, a GT-R would doubtless leave me for dead - but given what the majority of the UK's roads are like, I'm not sure that it is actually all that well-suited to this country.
Fair enough, I agree with your comments about the GTR not being suited for the B roads that you describe but we'll have to agree to disagree about Evo's.Which Evo can you keep up with in a BMW 535i estate ?
I tried following my mates Evo TME in my Saab 9-3 Aero down Cheshire lanes, he just dissapeared from view, they were designed for rallying so they arent out of their depth on poor roads in adverse conditions, they are in their element, have seen him hunt down a Bentley Continental GT which was like a podgy Labrador trying to outrun a terrier, needed a decent straight A road to pull any distance.
Saying a GTR is struggling in the same circumstances is all relative, a GTR out of its comfort zone is still faster than most cars, to be honest in a 535i I wouldn't go picking on 350Z's never mind GTR's.
I tried following my mates Evo TME in my Saab 9-3 Aero down Cheshire lanes, he just dissapeared from view, they were designed for rallying so they arent out of their depth on poor roads in adverse conditions, they are in their element, have seen him hunt down a Bentley Continental GT which was like a podgy Labrador trying to outrun a terrier, needed a decent straight A road to pull any distance.
Saying a GTR is struggling in the same circumstances is all relative, a GTR out of its comfort zone is still faster than most cars, to be honest in a 535i I wouldn't go picking on 350Z's never mind GTR's.
J4CKO said:
Which Evo can you keep up with in a BMW 535i estate ?
I tried following my mates Evo TME in my Saab 9-3 Aero down Cheshire lanes, he just dissapeared from view, they were designed for rallying so they arent out of their depth on poor roads in adverse conditions, they are in their element, have seen him hunt down a Bentley Continental GT which was like a podgy Labrador trying to outrun a terrier, needed a decent straight A road to pull any distance.
Saying a GTR is struggling in the same circumstances is all relative, a GTR out of its comfort zone is still faster than most cars, to be honest in a 535i I wouldn't go picking on 350Z's never mind GTR's.
Amusing post by Rover. What he is saying, is, take a worst road in Britain, pot holes 10 feet deep, 8 feet wide lanes with a million feet drop into a slurry of white hot lava on either side-and you know what, the GTR won't be any faster than a lada.I tried following my mates Evo TME in my Saab 9-3 Aero down Cheshire lanes, he just dissapeared from view, they were designed for rallying so they arent out of their depth on poor roads in adverse conditions, they are in their element, have seen him hunt down a Bentley Continental GT which was like a podgy Labrador trying to outrun a terrier, needed a decent straight A road to pull any distance.
Saying a GTR is struggling in the same circumstances is all relative, a GTR out of its comfort zone is still faster than most cars, to be honest in a 535i I wouldn't go picking on 350Z's never mind GTR's.
The GTR would murder any BMW in any conditions. It's a bit chav for my liking due to the terrible interior. Immense respect for them though
burwoodman said:
J4CKO said:
Which Evo can you keep up with in a BMW 535i estate ?
I tried following my mates Evo TME in my Saab 9-3 Aero down Cheshire lanes, he just dissapeared from view, they were designed for rallying so they arent out of their depth on poor roads in adverse conditions, they are in their element, have seen him hunt down a Bentley Continental GT which was like a podgy Labrador trying to outrun a terrier, needed a decent straight A road to pull any distance.
Saying a GTR is struggling in the same circumstances is all relative, a GTR out of its comfort zone is still faster than most cars, to be honest in a 535i I wouldn't go picking on 350Z's never mind GTR's.
Amusing post by Rover. What he is saying, is, take a worst road in Britain, pot holes 10 feet deep, 8 feet wide lanes with a million feet drop into a slurry of white hot lava on either side-and you know what, the GTR won't be any faster than a lada.I tried following my mates Evo TME in my Saab 9-3 Aero down Cheshire lanes, he just dissapeared from view, they were designed for rallying so they arent out of their depth on poor roads in adverse conditions, they are in their element, have seen him hunt down a Bentley Continental GT which was like a podgy Labrador trying to outrun a terrier, needed a decent straight A road to pull any distance.
Saying a GTR is struggling in the same circumstances is all relative, a GTR out of its comfort zone is still faster than most cars, to be honest in a 535i I wouldn't go picking on 350Z's never mind GTR's.
The GTR would murder any BMW in any conditions. It's a bit chav for my liking due to the terrible interior. Immense respect for them though
Its a bit techno but seems well made, doesnt seem much different to a Porsche these days.
burwoodman said:
The GTR would murder any BMW in any conditions.
As my earlier post describes, that's simply not true. My opinion is based not on conjecture but on thousands of miles driven in convoy alongside GT-Rs and an array of other machinery. On a wet B-road strewn with leaves you simply cannot use anywhere close to full throttle on the R35.plenty said:
burwoodman said:
The GTR would murder any BMW in any conditions.
As my earlier post describes, that's simply not true. My opinion is based not on conjecture but on thousands of miles driven in convoy alongside GT-Rs and an array of other machinery. On a wet B-road strewn with leaves you simply cannot use anywhere close to full throttle on the R35.So now we need to take testimony from people who've not driven the car, not been a passenger in the car ,but have "observed" the car..this place just gets better and better
Dagnut said:
plenty said:
burwoodman said:
The GTR would murder any BMW in any conditions.
As my earlier post describes, that's simply not true. My opinion is based not on conjecture but on thousands of miles driven in convoy alongside GT-Rs and an array of other machinery. On a wet B-road strewn with leaves you simply cannot use anywhere close to full throttle on the R35.So now we need to take testimony from people who've not driven the car, not been a passenger in the car ,but have "observed" the car..this place just gets better and better
Of course, most people have never actually tried anything like the above and never will, so feel free to take potshots if you like whilst adding nothing of any substantive value to the debate
plenty said:
Dagnut said:
plenty said:
burwoodman said:
The GTR would murder any BMW in any conditions.
As my earlier post describes, that's simply not true. My opinion is based not on conjecture but on thousands of miles driven in convoy alongside GT-Rs and an array of other machinery. On a wet B-road strewn with leaves you simply cannot use anywhere close to full throttle on the R35.So now we need to take testimony from people who've not driven the car, not been a passenger in the car ,but have "observed" the car..this place just gets better and better
Of course, most people have never actually tried anything like the above and never will, so feel free to take potshots if you like whilst adding nothing of any substantive value to the debate
plenty said:
I‘m offering evidence based on an objective way of evaluating cars’ real-world performance i.e. driven in convoy with others of broadly equal driving skill across a variety of roads and weather conditions. Which also happens to be the exact same methodology that professional road testers use, with the one exception (and admitted limitation) being that unless you’re a professional tester it’s not easily possible to swap cars. Nonetheless a sound evaluation can be achieved by extensive discussion and sharing of feedback between the drivers.
Of course, most people have never actually tried anything like the above and never will, so feel free to take potshots if you like whilst adding nothing of any substantive value to the debate
You're offering an opinion, not evidence. Unless the fact you're arguing over is "drivers that I know cannot drive a GTR faster than a BMW on a wet B-road"Of course, most people have never actually tried anything like the above and never will, so feel free to take potshots if you like whilst adding nothing of any substantive value to the debate
RoverP6B said:
Come and see my local B-roads. There's just no way of being able to put that kind of power down short of having all three of the following: 4WD, soft suspension and a load of ground clearance. They're twisting, rutted, off-camber, potholed, every corner or summit is blind, there are unimaginably valuable race-horses all over them (LaFerrari? P1? Mere pocket change by comparison!) and the surfaces are usually being pushed up by tree roots. No drainage to speak of and, at this time of year, leaves and tree branches all over them too. I can keep up with an Evo or GTR easily on these roads, but a well-driven Range Rover or Cayenne can leave me for dead.
The one exception to the above are McLarens, which seem to operate on an air cushion, floating millimetres above the surface. They are absolutely mighty, in a totally different league to the GTR.
You live in Surrey mate not Ukraine, I know about racehorses I live near Lambourn!The one exception to the above are McLarens, which seem to operate on an air cushion, floating millimetres above the surface. They are absolutely mighty, in a totally different league to the GTR.
Edited by RoverP6B on Monday 3rd November 16:53
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