Buying Advice - 2004 Saab 9-5 2.2 TiD
Discussion
As per the title really!
The old man is looking at buying a shed to last him ~6-8 months, if he can re-sell then great. If not then no tears.
We've found an auto model with 107,000 on the clocks. It's got the comfort pack, driving pack and exterior sports styling pack and it's up for a grand.
Anything in particular to look out for in these cars besides general checks?
The old man is looking at buying a shed to last him ~6-8 months, if he can re-sell then great. If not then no tears.
We've found an auto model with 107,000 on the clocks. It's got the comfort pack, driving pack and exterior sports styling pack and it's up for a grand.
Anything in particular to look out for in these cars besides general checks?
I found this......
From model year 2004, all 9-5s have the latest PCV system. Full-synthetic oil was specified for the 2000-2003 Aero so those models are usually a safer buy when it comes to the sludge issue.
Turbos
Gasoline engines
Garrett GT17 low-pressure turbo - 2.3t Linear and Arc models
Mitsubishi TD04 high-output turbo - 2.3T Arc and Aero models
The Garrett GT17 seems to fail around 100K miles/160K kms. The turbo seals wear and cause oil to leak into the intake system. When this happens, there will be a puff of blue smoke from the exhaust on start-up when the car hasn't been driven for 12 hours or longer. It's still safe to drive the car but the turbo has to be replaced sooner rather than later. In the US, this can easily set you back $1,500 if replaced with a new turbo by a Saab dealer. Re-manufactured turbos for about $500 are an option. While it requires some mechanical skills, it is relatively easy to do this yourself.
The Mitsubishi TD04 turbo usually lasts much longer and 200k miles / 320K kms or more shouldn't be a problem for these turbos.
Ignition
Direct Ignition Cassette (DIC) wears over time and may need to be replaced very 60-80K miles or more. Cost is about $280 in the US.
Timing chain
The timing chain is reliable and often doesn't need attention for 150-200K miles. Check for rattling sounds indicating a worn chain, guides or tensioners.
V6 petrol/gasoline engines
Tuning possibilities are limited and the engine can be thirsty. 200hp is middle of the road for the 9-5 but provides for a relaxed cruiser and quiet/reliable engine.
There are no issues with sludge or head gaskets like the 4-cylinder engines.
Timing Belt
Replacement every 60,000 miles or 100.000 kms. Replace tensioner and idler pulley at the same time. This is an interference engine which means if the timing belt fails, pistons may hit the valves stuck in the open position. This can be a very expensive engine repair so make sure it is replaced when needed. Check the engine for any stickers mentioning the last replacement or check the maintenance records. It should be replaced if there are no records at all.
Turbos
The V6 has a GT15 low-pressure turbo which is part of the exhaust manifold. It's not necessarily difficult to replace but the cost of the turbo is higher than other models. Expect $600 for a rebuilt turbo and much more for a new one.
Diesel engines
Typical problems for the 3.0TiD ('01-'06 Isuzu) engine are the EGR valve and dropped cylinder liners. Both can be very expensive to fix and many avoid the 9-5 with 3.0 liter diesel engine. 2.2TiD engine ('02-'06 Opel) and 1.9TiD ('06-'09 Fiat) seem to be the better diesel engine choices.
From model year 2004, all 9-5s have the latest PCV system. Full-synthetic oil was specified for the 2000-2003 Aero so those models are usually a safer buy when it comes to the sludge issue.
Turbos
Gasoline engines
Garrett GT17 low-pressure turbo - 2.3t Linear and Arc models
Mitsubishi TD04 high-output turbo - 2.3T Arc and Aero models
The Garrett GT17 seems to fail around 100K miles/160K kms. The turbo seals wear and cause oil to leak into the intake system. When this happens, there will be a puff of blue smoke from the exhaust on start-up when the car hasn't been driven for 12 hours or longer. It's still safe to drive the car but the turbo has to be replaced sooner rather than later. In the US, this can easily set you back $1,500 if replaced with a new turbo by a Saab dealer. Re-manufactured turbos for about $500 are an option. While it requires some mechanical skills, it is relatively easy to do this yourself.
The Mitsubishi TD04 turbo usually lasts much longer and 200k miles / 320K kms or more shouldn't be a problem for these turbos.
Ignition
Direct Ignition Cassette (DIC) wears over time and may need to be replaced very 60-80K miles or more. Cost is about $280 in the US.
Timing chain
The timing chain is reliable and often doesn't need attention for 150-200K miles. Check for rattling sounds indicating a worn chain, guides or tensioners.
V6 petrol/gasoline engines
Tuning possibilities are limited and the engine can be thirsty. 200hp is middle of the road for the 9-5 but provides for a relaxed cruiser and quiet/reliable engine.
There are no issues with sludge or head gaskets like the 4-cylinder engines.
Timing Belt
Replacement every 60,000 miles or 100.000 kms. Replace tensioner and idler pulley at the same time. This is an interference engine which means if the timing belt fails, pistons may hit the valves stuck in the open position. This can be a very expensive engine repair so make sure it is replaced when needed. Check the engine for any stickers mentioning the last replacement or check the maintenance records. It should be replaced if there are no records at all.
Turbos
The V6 has a GT15 low-pressure turbo which is part of the exhaust manifold. It's not necessarily difficult to replace but the cost of the turbo is higher than other models. Expect $600 for a rebuilt turbo and much more for a new one.
Diesel engines
Typical problems for the 3.0TiD ('01-'06 Isuzu) engine are the EGR valve and dropped cylinder liners. Both can be very expensive to fix and many avoid the 9-5 with 3.0 liter diesel engine. 2.2TiD engine ('02-'06 Opel) and 1.9TiD ('06-'09 Fiat) seem to be the better diesel engine choices.
None of the stuff about PCV applies to the diesel.
Main thing to watch is that it starts OK when stone cold - otherwise it can be leakoff pipes (simple) or injectors (more expensive).
There are isolated cases of injector pump failure.
On the whole it is a rough and ready low tech direct injection diesel which is a bit noisy but pulls OK and is generally pretty reliable.
It has a timing chain, not belt btw.
Main thing to watch is that it starts OK when stone cold - otherwise it can be leakoff pipes (simple) or injectors (more expensive).
There are isolated cases of injector pump failure.
On the whole it is a rough and ready low tech direct injection diesel which is a bit noisy but pulls OK and is generally pretty reliable.
It has a timing chain, not belt btw.
confused_buyer said:
Main thing to watch is that it starts OK when stone cold - otherwise it can be leakoff pipes (simple) or injectors (more expensive).
There are isolated cases of injector pump failure.
On the whole it is a rough and ready low tech direct injection diesel which is a bit noisy but pulls OK and is generally pretty reliable.
It has a timing chain, not belt btw.
Yep to all of this. I've had a 186k mile 2.2 TiD as a throw-anything-in-the-back shed for a year and it has a feeling of simple unburstability about it. It looks like a pile of crap but the interior is tough as old boots. Engine likewise. Mine takes ~10 seconds of continuous cranking before it starts but it's not getting worse and hasn't ever let me down. Does a measured 42mpg regularly and easily.There are isolated cases of injector pump failure.
On the whole it is a rough and ready low tech direct injection diesel which is a bit noisy but pulls OK and is generally pretty reliable.
It has a timing chain, not belt btw.
If the engine has a weak point it could be the EGR valve, which chokes up and needs cleaning. Easy enough job though, apparently.
At the last MOT mine needed £60 of sill welding.
Calza said:
120bhp from a 2.2 TD really is impressive too, how did they get it so low?!
Old skool!It's a low-stress engine so I hope it'll run and run, and be more reliable at high mileages than modern diesels. To be honest, it's more about the torque than the bhp figure - many Saabs seem designed to pull well in the mid-range rather than providing headline-grabbing 0-60 times, but this makes for a relaxing drive without too many gear changes. Mine pulls smoothly in top gear from 30mph up to 90+. It's better to live with than 120bhp might make you expect.
Calza said:
Thanks for the advice, sounds like a good proposition then. Will make a note about the cold start.
120bhp from a 2.2 TD really is impressive too, how did they get it so low?!
Not really. It was a bit off the pace by 2004 but in 2000 when the 125bhp version came out most 2 litre ish diesels were about 110-120bhp.120bhp from a 2.2 TD really is impressive too, how did they get it so low?!
It pulls OK. It is never going to be fast or refined under load but a 9-5 Auto with the 2.2 goes OK in a relaxed sort of way and is quite enough for normal driving.
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