RE: Caterham 21: Unsung Hero
Discussion
whitestu said:
The big problem with the 21 is the Fisher Fury looks miles nicer and is much cheaper.
Cheers! I knew it reminded me of something; you're spot on!I've only seen a couple of 21s over the years, and it does look sleek and striking in the flesh, although I agree it gives the impression that it's a kit, not a factory car. I do like the double-cockpit with the central strip of instruments. Yes, it did get absolutely arse-raped by the Elise S1 on the marketing front at the time.
Anyway, Fisher Fury with a Fireblade engine...... Hmmmm.......
Mystified by some of the hate for the styling on here.
This car is way better looking than an Elise.
What really killed this car was the decision to base it on a Seven chassis. If Caterham had put it on a Spyder Elan chassis the doors would have been usable, the windows could have opened and the design could have grown a bit to become a Plus2 version.
The Elise didn't kill it, by that logic the MX5, MGF and BMW Z4 would also have died.
Does anyone still have the tooling for the body?
This car is way better looking than an Elise.
What really killed this car was the decision to base it on a Seven chassis. If Caterham had put it on a Spyder Elan chassis the doors would have been usable, the windows could have opened and the design could have grown a bit to become a Plus2 version.
The Elise didn't kill it, by that logic the MX5, MGF and BMW Z4 would also have died.
Does anyone still have the tooling for the body?
The biggest problem for the 21 was it promised something it never delivered. When it came out I was so taken with its looks and the concept of a more practical 7 I toddled off to the 1994 motor show to take a look for myself.
I headed straight for the Caterham stand and waited patiently in a que of others jumping in to get a feel of this new beauty. After what seemed like an eternity my turn came and I excitedly slid my 12 stone 6ft 24 year old frame into that lovely 21.
Then....oh dear
All my enthusiasm drained way in an instant, replaced by the realisation I just didn't fit.
The Caterham 21 promised something more practical, sadly what it delivered was as cramped as the 7. To add insult to injury wind up windows were conspicuous in their absence and the folding roof was an ill-fitting unrefined mess.
Caterham really missed a trick with this car, they got the looks right but clearly didn't develop the design with respect to the brief. What they ended up with really wasn't that much more practical than their 7 product yet forfeited many of that car's raw appeal.
What a shame they didn't widen the chassis, make the windows go up & down and develop a decent folding roof. After spending an extremely disappointing 2 minutes in the company of the 21 I toddled off to the TVR stand and promptly fell head over heals in love with the new Chimaera.
The rest as they say, is history...
I headed straight for the Caterham stand and waited patiently in a que of others jumping in to get a feel of this new beauty. After what seemed like an eternity my turn came and I excitedly slid my 12 stone 6ft 24 year old frame into that lovely 21.
Then....oh dear
All my enthusiasm drained way in an instant, replaced by the realisation I just didn't fit.
The Caterham 21 promised something more practical, sadly what it delivered was as cramped as the 7. To add insult to injury wind up windows were conspicuous in their absence and the folding roof was an ill-fitting unrefined mess.
Caterham really missed a trick with this car, they got the looks right but clearly didn't develop the design with respect to the brief. What they ended up with really wasn't that much more practical than their 7 product yet forfeited many of that car's raw appeal.
What a shame they didn't widen the chassis, make the windows go up & down and develop a decent folding roof. After spending an extremely disappointing 2 minutes in the company of the 21 I toddled off to the TVR stand and promptly fell head over heals in love with the new Chimaera.
The rest as they say, is history...
ChimpOnGas said:
The biggest problem for the 21 was it promised something it never delivered. When it came out I was so taken with its looks and the concept of a more practical 7 I toddled off to the 1994 motor show to take a look for myself.
I headed straight for the Caterham stand and waited patiently in a que of others jumping in to get a feel of this new beauty. After what seemed like an eternity my turn came and I excitedly slid my 12 stone 6ft 24 year old frame into that lovely 21.
Then....oh dear
All my enthusiasm drained way in an instant, replaced by the realisation I just didn't fit.
The Caterham 21 promised something more practical, sadly what it delivered was as cramped as the 7. To add insult to injury wind up windows were conspicuous in their absence and the folding roof was an ill-fitting unrefined mess.
Caterham really missed a trick with this car, they got the looks right but clearly didn't develop the design with respect to the brief. What they ended up with really wasn't that much more practical than their 7 product yet forfeited many of that car's raw appeal.
What a shame they didn't widen the chassis, make the windows go up & down and develop a decent folding roof. After spending an extremely disappointing 2 minutes in the company of the 21 I toddled off to the TVR stand and promptly fell head over heals in love with the new Chimaera.
The rest as they say, is history...
That's odd. You were there so I won't argue but I'm 6ft and a bit and I've had my 21 for 15 years. Its a very comfortable place to be. Snug but very comfortable. Getting in and out is a tricky, especially with the roof up, but its just a thing to learn.I headed straight for the Caterham stand and waited patiently in a que of others jumping in to get a feel of this new beauty. After what seemed like an eternity my turn came and I excitedly slid my 12 stone 6ft 24 year old frame into that lovely 21.
Then....oh dear
All my enthusiasm drained way in an instant, replaced by the realisation I just didn't fit.
The Caterham 21 promised something more practical, sadly what it delivered was as cramped as the 7. To add insult to injury wind up windows were conspicuous in their absence and the folding roof was an ill-fitting unrefined mess.
Caterham really missed a trick with this car, they got the looks right but clearly didn't develop the design with respect to the brief. What they ended up with really wasn't that much more practical than their 7 product yet forfeited many of that car's raw appeal.
What a shame they didn't widen the chassis, make the windows go up & down and develop a decent folding roof. After spending an extremely disappointing 2 minutes in the company of the 21 I toddled off to the TVR stand and promptly fell head over heals in love with the new Chimaera.
The rest as they say, is history...
And it does have a wider track than the equivalent 7, its where the SV started.
Roof is ok, basic but ok. Windows are a nuisance but they can't go down with the doors the shape they are. To be fair I've had the windows out twice in 15 years I think.
I'd argue its alot more practical than the 7 (the boot is a great size)but no more civilised which is/was a problem.
Its fundamentally flawed in many ways and the marketing wasn't really appropriate. It wasn't an S2000, Boxster or even a chimaera rival and anyone who wanted these would likely be unhappy with a 21 .
There is another, orange, 21 for sale. One of the very few with a factory VHPD engine.
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C543918
actually there's 3
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C537188
That's 6% of all of them!
I liked these when they first appeared, but then the Elise simply rendered it pointless.
The use of Mondeo rear lights ruined the already slightly odd rear end for me, the front and side profile are great though.
Lotus come along with the Elise, I tink being the first car they made to use specifically made lights, and it worked.
Caterham could have at least borrowed from something like the Fiat Coupe, which would have given good quality and virtually unrecognisable rear lights rather than massive clusters that look like they are growing on the car.
Also, only 60ish-kg lighter than the Lotus, and missing key ingredients like window winding mechanisms, plus the Elise has a glass rear window... if it was a whole car, it'd be a fair bit heavier.
Looks a bit like something from Grand Theft Auto...
The use of Mondeo rear lights ruined the already slightly odd rear end for me, the front and side profile are great though.
Lotus come along with the Elise, I tink being the first car they made to use specifically made lights, and it worked.
Caterham could have at least borrowed from something like the Fiat Coupe, which would have given good quality and virtually unrecognisable rear lights rather than massive clusters that look like they are growing on the car.
Also, only 60ish-kg lighter than the Lotus, and missing key ingredients like window winding mechanisms, plus the Elise has a glass rear window... if it was a whole car, it'd be a fair bit heavier.
Looks a bit like something from Grand Theft Auto...
ChimpOnGas said:
The biggest problem for the 21 was it promised something it never delivered. When it came out I was so taken with its looks and the concept of a more practical 7 I toddled off to the 1994 motor show to take a look for myself.
I headed straight for the Caterham stand and waited patiently in a que of others jumping in to get a feel of this new beauty. After what seemed like an eternity my turn came and I excitedly slid my 12 stone 6ft 24 year old frame into that lovely 21.
Then....oh dear
All my enthusiasm drained way in an instant, replaced by the realisation I just didn't fit.
The Caterham 21 promised something more practical, sadly what it delivered was as cramped as the 7. To add insult to injury wind up windows were conspicuous in their absence and the folding roof was an ill-fitting unrefined mess.
Caterham really missed a trick with this car, they got the looks right but clearly didn't develop the design with respect to the brief. What they ended up with really wasn't that much more practical than their 7 product yet forfeited many of that car's raw appeal.
What a shame they didn't widen the chassis, make the windows go up & down and develop a decent folding roof. After spending an extremely disappointing 2 minutes in the company of the 21 I toddled off to the TVR stand and promptly fell head over heals in love with the new Chimaera.
The rest as they say, is history...
Funnily enough, I went all the way to the factory to test drive and didn't fit in it. Bought a Griff. I headed straight for the Caterham stand and waited patiently in a que of others jumping in to get a feel of this new beauty. After what seemed like an eternity my turn came and I excitedly slid my 12 stone 6ft 24 year old frame into that lovely 21.
Then....oh dear
All my enthusiasm drained way in an instant, replaced by the realisation I just didn't fit.
The Caterham 21 promised something more practical, sadly what it delivered was as cramped as the 7. To add insult to injury wind up windows were conspicuous in their absence and the folding roof was an ill-fitting unrefined mess.
Caterham really missed a trick with this car, they got the looks right but clearly didn't develop the design with respect to the brief. What they ended up with really wasn't that much more practical than their 7 product yet forfeited many of that car's raw appeal.
What a shame they didn't widen the chassis, make the windows go up & down and develop a decent folding roof. After spending an extremely disappointing 2 minutes in the company of the 21 I toddled off to the TVR stand and promptly fell head over heals in love with the new Chimaera.
The rest as they say, is history...
kambites said:
I think Lotus might have had copyright issues with them using the Elan chassis. 
Lotus didn't have problems with the Vegantune Evante, the Encore Super 95 or the Ronart. In fact they gave the guy who built the Encore a job!In any event, Lotus don't hold a patent on the backbone chassis arrangement, and it's easy enough to adjust the dimensions and geometry sufficiently that it can't be considered a replica of the Elan unit (indeed, you'd need to, because the Elan's suspension geometry is not really suitable for wide, low profile modern tyres).
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