Honda 4x4s... not actually 4x4
Discussion
Anyone on here have a Honda soft-roader?
Turns out they've been lying to you!
http://www.carthrottle.com/attention-all-honda-own...
Turns out they've been lying to you!
http://www.carthrottle.com/attention-all-honda-own...
article said:
Teknikens Värld is testing the four-wheel drive system in Sweden’s 20 best-selling SUVs. Honda CR-V proves once again that its system doesn’t deliver what it promises.
Last year Teknikens Värld tested the 4WD system in Honda CR-V. We then discovered that Honda’s 4WD system didn’t perform well at all. The system overheated when the surface was slippery. The CR-V wasn’t able to drive uphill when the traction was poor. The front wheels were just spinning and the rear wheels were not moving at all.
Honda explained that is was a built-in functionality to spare the mechanical parts of the system. But Honda did listen to our criticism and they shortly after offered all their customers in Sweden a software update to eliminate the problem.
We then tested the CR-V again with the updated software and the problem with the 4WD system was gone. CR-V was now able to run up the hill on the slippery surface.
We have now performed the same test again, now with Honda CR-V model year 2015. As you can see in the movie above the problem is back. The CR-V is not able to climb uphill when the front wheels have no friction. The rear wheels are once again not moving. After 15-20 seconds the CR-V instead slides off the low friction rolls.
Our test method with low friction rolls was approved by Honda last year. The method, which is very realistic, has also been adopted by some automakers, such as Subaru.
As you can see from the video at the top of this page, the 4x4 system clearly isn’t doing what it should be; the front wheels spin furiously, while the rears do nothing to help drive the car forward. The demonstration with the Ford Kuga model highlights the Honda’s shortcomings.
We spoke to Honda UK earlier today, but are yet to receive a statement. If the software fault does affect UK and European models, a recall to update the system could prove very costly.
Software fault? The cynical side of me thinks they've actually just been badging up cars with 2wd gearboxes....Last year Teknikens Värld tested the 4WD system in Honda CR-V. We then discovered that Honda’s 4WD system didn’t perform well at all. The system overheated when the surface was slippery. The CR-V wasn’t able to drive uphill when the traction was poor. The front wheels were just spinning and the rear wheels were not moving at all.
Honda explained that is was a built-in functionality to spare the mechanical parts of the system. But Honda did listen to our criticism and they shortly after offered all their customers in Sweden a software update to eliminate the problem.
We then tested the CR-V again with the updated software and the problem with the 4WD system was gone. CR-V was now able to run up the hill on the slippery surface.
We have now performed the same test again, now with Honda CR-V model year 2015. As you can see in the movie above the problem is back. The CR-V is not able to climb uphill when the front wheels have no friction. The rear wheels are once again not moving. After 15-20 seconds the CR-V instead slides off the low friction rolls.
Our test method with low friction rolls was approved by Honda last year. The method, which is very realistic, has also been adopted by some automakers, such as Subaru.
As you can see from the video at the top of this page, the 4x4 system clearly isn’t doing what it should be; the front wheels spin furiously, while the rears do nothing to help drive the car forward. The demonstration with the Ford Kuga model highlights the Honda’s shortcomings.
We spoke to Honda UK earlier today, but are yet to receive a statement. If the software fault does affect UK and European models, a recall to update the system could prove very costly.
The original Mk1 CRV was quite good in comparison.
No electronic goodies and a good old fashioned viscous coupling, front wheels slip... Sends drive to the rear, key is to keep your foot in and keep the fronts spinning on slippery surfaces.
Suprisingly fun at oversteer in a snowy car park or at the beach. Loved mine, far more capable than the newer ones.
No electronic goodies and a good old fashioned viscous coupling, front wheels slip... Sends drive to the rear, key is to keep your foot in and keep the fronts spinning on slippery surfaces.
Suprisingly fun at oversteer in a snowy car park or at the beach. Loved mine, far more capable than the newer ones. 
Similar test showing the same shortcomings has been around since 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwr5_Sd47Us
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwr5_Sd47Us
mosstrooper said:
Similar test showing the same shortcomings has been around since 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwr5_Sd47Us
As said in the article, because Honda were SUPPOSED to have fixed ithttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwr5_Sd47Us
Apparently Honda UK have responded....
I think I'm gonna stick with my Land Rover, thanks....
Honda UK said:
Honda’s AWD system uses a compact, lightweight and fuel efficient rear differential. Due to this construction, certain torque limits are set to enable the unit to perform effectively in real world conditions, while not exceeding the overall strength of the unit.
In real world conditions, regardless of the surface, some amount of friction is available to both front and rear wheels. The AWD system allocates driving torque to the front and rear wheels in order to achieve the best possible driving force, whilst keeping within the torque limits of the rear differential.
In the roller test shown this time, the front wheels have zero friction and the rear wheels have unlimited grip, therefore if all available torque required to move the vehicle uphill was transferred to the rear differential, the torque limit of the unit would be exceeded. Because the torque is limited as described above, the vehicle will not climb the slope in this test condition.
If the vehicle is continued to operate in this condition (front wheels spinning and rear wheels stationary) after some time the system detects high slip and reduces the available torque to the rear wheels to prevent overheating and therefore the vehicle moves back down the slope.
Again, in real world conditions, this situation is highly unlikely. Normally front and rear wheels will be spinning to a similar degree, therefore front or rear slip is small and overheat protection will not be required.
Therefore our opinion is that the CR-V Realtime AWD system performance cannot be verified using this type of test and the result is as expected from the system. However as we demonstrated on 26th March 2013 at Harads together with Teknikens Värld, the actual performance of the system in real world conditions was “very effective”.
I can think of a number of times when I've first moved the car in the snow and my fronts could spin whereas my rears are on snow-free tarmac under the car....In real world conditions, regardless of the surface, some amount of friction is available to both front and rear wheels. The AWD system allocates driving torque to the front and rear wheels in order to achieve the best possible driving force, whilst keeping within the torque limits of the rear differential.
In the roller test shown this time, the front wheels have zero friction and the rear wheels have unlimited grip, therefore if all available torque required to move the vehicle uphill was transferred to the rear differential, the torque limit of the unit would be exceeded. Because the torque is limited as described above, the vehicle will not climb the slope in this test condition.
If the vehicle is continued to operate in this condition (front wheels spinning and rear wheels stationary) after some time the system detects high slip and reduces the available torque to the rear wheels to prevent overheating and therefore the vehicle moves back down the slope.
Again, in real world conditions, this situation is highly unlikely. Normally front and rear wheels will be spinning to a similar degree, therefore front or rear slip is small and overheat protection will not be required.
Therefore our opinion is that the CR-V Realtime AWD system performance cannot be verified using this type of test and the result is as expected from the system. However as we demonstrated on 26th March 2013 at Harads together with Teknikens Värld, the actual performance of the system in real world conditions was “very effective”.
I think I'm gonna stick with my Land Rover, thanks....
Funny how all the new CRV's are now fitted with winter tyres as standard, no doubt so customers won't notice when it snows. If you've seen the size of the drive shafts you'll realize they couldn't provide much torque.
Four wheel drive or four wheels with some drive
The Volvo's suffer a similar fate in those tests.
Four wheel drive or four wheels with some drive
The Volvo's suffer a similar fate in those tests.
BugLebowski said:
kambites said:
I don't think you'll find any modern car, 4x4 or not, which has no capacity for software updates.
I mean software updates that affect how the 4x4 system works, i.e. a fully mechanical 4x4 system. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff