£40k For a Mid 90's Escort - The World Has Gone Mad!
Discussion
Have you seen the price of 80's & 90's Fords lately?
The mid 1990's Escort Cosworth has been a particularly big climber in the last few years.
This car was built in the same period as our TVRs & in much greater numbers, it is not a hand made open sports car with a V8 and a race car derived chassis, its a flippin Ford hatchback!!!! (all be a moderately quick one)
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
And that's not one off...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
I think the whole old Ford value thing has gone mad, it seems to be driven more by the brand than the machine's engineering excellence. The thing that confuses me is in my day Ford wasn't a massively respected brand???
The phrase "Dagengham Dustbin" comes to mind
How is it a TVR Chimaera which is a 1060kg 300hp hand made traditional British V8 sports car built on a proper tubular space frame chassis with race car derived coil over unequal wishbone suspension be worth £10-£13k when an Escort Cosworth from the same period is worth £40k???
Honestly it's all gone nuts and has nothing to do with engineering excellence, the ignorance of the classic car buying public to what really makes a classic..... is baffling to me!!!
The world has gone mad!!!
The mid 1990's Escort Cosworth has been a particularly big climber in the last few years.
This car was built in the same period as our TVRs & in much greater numbers, it is not a hand made open sports car with a V8 and a race car derived chassis, its a flippin Ford hatchback!!!! (all be a moderately quick one)
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
And that's not one off...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
I think the whole old Ford value thing has gone mad, it seems to be driven more by the brand than the machine's engineering excellence. The thing that confuses me is in my day Ford wasn't a massively respected brand???
The phrase "Dagengham Dustbin" comes to mind
How is it a TVR Chimaera which is a 1060kg 300hp hand made traditional British V8 sports car built on a proper tubular space frame chassis with race car derived coil over unequal wishbone suspension be worth £10-£13k when an Escort Cosworth from the same period is worth £40k???
Honestly it's all gone nuts and has nothing to do with engineering excellence, the ignorance of the classic car buying public to what really makes a classic..... is baffling to me!!!
The world has gone mad!!!
How about an old solid axle cart sprung Ford Capri then.... for £20k!!!!
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
In my day old Capris like this were considered (quite rightly) total junk!
I have no issue with everyday classics making good money but they need to have some engineering excellence behind them, the original Mini is a good example of an everyday car that deserves classic status.
What I'm saying is price in the classic car world doesn't seem to have any correlation to engineering excellence, and there are other examples too.
Consider a mid 90's Porsche 944, 968 or 928 with its front engine transaxle layout which is clearly an infinitely better engineered design than a 911, so why have 911s from the same period gone nuts while the way better front engined cars still languish in the cheap seats?
The TVR Chimaera is light weight traditional British sports car with race derived chassis & suspension built in limited numbers, it & the Griffith are also 90's British cultural icons. If you were young boy growing up in the UK in the 90's and loved cars a TVR Chim & Griff were both guaranteed right up there on your wish list.
If you drove a Capri back then you were known as a "Kevin" (Chav in today's speak) and laughed out of any real car lover circles, if you drove the Escort Cosworth you were an "Essex Boy" (still a Chav in today's speak).
Perhaps Kevins & Essex Boy have just done so well for themselves in the last 20 years they now have big disposable incomes to throw at their peculiar taste in cars?
All I'm saying is engineering excellence doesn't seem to drive values, fashion & brand seem more important to classic car buyers these days which in my opinion demonstrates their massive ignorance.
A Ford Escort Cosworth was £23k in 1996 while a TVR Chimaera was £31k, so the TVR was almost 40% more expensive.
In 2014 Ford Escort Cosworth is £40k and a TVR Chimaera is £10k, the TVR is now a third of its new value while the Ford is almost twice it's 1996 screen price.
Surely that alone can't be right, can it?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
In my day old Capris like this were considered (quite rightly) total junk!
I have no issue with everyday classics making good money but they need to have some engineering excellence behind them, the original Mini is a good example of an everyday car that deserves classic status.
What I'm saying is price in the classic car world doesn't seem to have any correlation to engineering excellence, and there are other examples too.
Consider a mid 90's Porsche 944, 968 or 928 with its front engine transaxle layout which is clearly an infinitely better engineered design than a 911, so why have 911s from the same period gone nuts while the way better front engined cars still languish in the cheap seats?
The TVR Chimaera is light weight traditional British sports car with race derived chassis & suspension built in limited numbers, it & the Griffith are also 90's British cultural icons. If you were young boy growing up in the UK in the 90's and loved cars a TVR Chim & Griff were both guaranteed right up there on your wish list.
If you drove a Capri back then you were known as a "Kevin" (Chav in today's speak) and laughed out of any real car lover circles, if you drove the Escort Cosworth you were an "Essex Boy" (still a Chav in today's speak).
Perhaps Kevins & Essex Boy have just done so well for themselves in the last 20 years they now have big disposable incomes to throw at their peculiar taste in cars?
All I'm saying is engineering excellence doesn't seem to drive values, fashion & brand seem more important to classic car buyers these days which in my opinion demonstrates their massive ignorance.
A Ford Escort Cosworth was £23k in 1996 while a TVR Chimaera was £31k, so the TVR was almost 40% more expensive.
In 2014 Ford Escort Cosworth is £40k and a TVR Chimaera is £10k, the TVR is now a third of its new value while the Ford is almost twice it's 1996 screen price.
Surely that alone can't be right, can it?
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 27th October 12:35
ChimpOnGas said:
A Ford Escort Cosworth was £23k in 1996 while a TVR Chimaera was £31k, so the TVR was almost 40% more expensive.
In 2014 Ford Escort Cosworth is £40k and a TVR Chimaera is £10k, the TVR is now a third of its new value while the Ford is almost four times more than it's 1996 screen price.
Surely that alone can't be right, can it?
No. Instead of: 'four times more than ' you should have written 'twice' In 2014 Ford Escort Cosworth is £40k and a TVR Chimaera is £10k, the TVR is now a third of its new value while the Ford is almost four times more than it's 1996 screen price.
Surely that alone can't be right, can it?
Loved my Capris (yep, plural!). Ford were one of the first to introduce the hot hatch back in the 80's and the cars have been really popular ever since. They were affordable and therefore either loved or loathed by many, this is what makes them so collectable. The prices are high, but its nice to see them restored like that.
On the otherhand, I always wanted a TVR, but they were well out of my price range when I was younger. Same for most. The widely-spread nostalga just isn't there in the same way.
I've never understood the VW thing. I can appreciate the old campers, but the rest just don't do that much for me.
On the otherhand, I always wanted a TVR, but they were well out of my price range when I was younger. Same for most. The widely-spread nostalga just isn't there in the same way.
I've never understood the VW thing. I can appreciate the old campers, but the rest just don't do that much for me.
Edited by Chuffmeister on Monday 27th October 10:06
It's a simple numbers game. The Ford & VW scenes are comparatively huge, but the people in them aren't too likely to buy new, while the folks who buy Fords and VWs new are likely to see them more as a commodity, possibly a company lease. Hence a high attrition rate and lots of punters chasing relatively few cars, especially after most of them had gone to a phase when they weren't worth all that much and any significant amount of proper body restoration would render them ineconomical to repair so most of them would get bodged up to scrape them through their last couple of MOTs.
Also publications like Fast Ford were absolutley massive in the '90s in the wake of Max Power...
Fast Fords, Volkswagens and Porsches definitely attract a 'scene tax'; TVRs are still being lumped in with all the other old quirky British cars that according to the average car nut, 'beards and anoraks' are into.
The '90s and '00s video game and Top Gear generation getting into 'proper' cars when in their 40s may change all that... the TVR and Brit sports car event/media scene may have to get a thorough revamp to catch them in their nets, though.
Also publications like Fast Ford were absolutley massive in the '90s in the wake of Max Power...
Fast Fords, Volkswagens and Porsches definitely attract a 'scene tax'; TVRs are still being lumped in with all the other old quirky British cars that according to the average car nut, 'beards and anoraks' are into.
The '90s and '00s video game and Top Gear generation getting into 'proper' cars when in their 40s may change all that... the TVR and Brit sports car event/media scene may have to get a thorough revamp to catch them in their nets, though.
, corrected.
rigga said:
Who cares, I doubt a tvr owner purchased the car with future residuals in mind, rather to enjoy the ride.
And neither did the guy that bought an Escort Cosworth, so your point is?rigga said:
BTW car's from the mid 90's are hardly of the classic era.
Strongly disagree 
There are plenty of 90's cars already already well recognised as classics, and lots of classic car dealers trading in them.
I guess I just don't get the whole Ford thing, I used to work on them and they were to the most part not particularly well engineered or well built, they certainly weren't charismatic that's for sure!
Who cares about competition pedigree when the road cars were so removed from the campaigned specials anyway, they very seldom contained any engineering DNA from the competition cars.
My real question is not "why is an Escort Cosworth worth £40k now?", but "why do TVR Chimaeras remain so cheap?"
Surely were over the stupid reliability stigma by now?
People say fibreglass cars are not worth much like the scimitar.
What does amaze me how much a Porsche Speedster replica in fibreglass with a butchered Beetle chassis and air cooled engine can be seen over 25k .
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Porsche-356-Speedste...
What does amaze me how much a Porsche Speedster replica in fibreglass with a butchered Beetle chassis and air cooled engine can be seen over 25k .
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Porsche-356-Speedste...
SILICONEKID345HP said:
People say fibreglass cars are not worth much like the scimitar.
What does amaze me how much a Porsche Speedster replica in fibreglass with a butchered Beetle chassis and air cooled engine can be seen over 25k .
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Porsche-356-Speedste...
That's an even better example of what I'm taking about, start with a Beetle then make a kit car out of it - that's a truly horrible idea. I wouldnt give £6k for it let alone £30k!!!What does amaze me how much a Porsche Speedster replica in fibreglass with a butchered Beetle chassis and air cooled engine can be seen over 25k .
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Porsche-356-Speedste...
The price of Cobra replicas is another one that gets me, go to any kit car show and you'll soon see most Cobra replicas are total junk, and even a well built one is a far less complete car than a Chimaera.
So why is a Cobra replica worth £15 - £30k+, yet even the best Chimaera struggles to break the £15k barrier ???
I guarantee you the TVR will be the better car in every respect.
Its all wrong guys
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