What is the most overrated car manufacturer?

What is the most overrated car manufacturer?

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white_goodman

Original Poster:

4,042 posts

190 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
What do you consider to be the most overrated car manufacturer? I think these would be my top three.

3rd place: Ford - the motoring press can't seem to say a bad word about them but I find them distinctly average at best, with the odd exception (mk1 Focus for example). I haven't got a problem with the Fiesta and the new Focus and Mondeo estates are very handsome. The Fiesta and Focus STs are probably pretty good as well (although I still haven't learnt to like the look of the Focus) and of course the Mustang is ace. However, they're not very cheap anymore, are poorly equipped compared to the opposition in my experience and the interiors are still pretty horrid both in terms of design and quality of plastics and in my experience rattly after a few months. I test drove a mk3 Focus recently with a potential view to purchase but found the boot disappointingly small compared to the opposition, the spec a bit basic and even the drive a bit underwhelming, which I thought would be its best feature. I have never bought a Ford and by all means, they are certainly not the worst cars in their class but I always find there is something "better" in my budget. However, I don't want to sound like one of those people who berate anything because it's not German, so that brings me to 2nd place:

Audi - Audi used to be a bit of an interesting, alternative choice and the B5 A4, C5 A6 and D2/D3 A8 were genuinely good-looking, well-engineered cars. However, I think Audi have sold out in terms of engineering and I don't even think the interiors are as special as they used to be. The RS models used to be decent driver's cars and well judged in the looks department with subtle, yet undersated aggression. Now they just look bling and are merely very fast and that's about it. Every A3 and A4 I have ever driven has not driven as well as the VW equivalent in my opinion, although I'm sure the bigger models drive nicer. Who wants an A8 though, when it just looks like a stretched A4? There's still the odd exception though. I love the R8 and I don't know how it drives but the B6 A4 Cabriolet is still a beautiful car in my opinion (hate the A5 Cab for some reason though).



However, most overrated car manufacturer IMHO has to be Toyota. They have an enviable reputation for engineering, quality and reliability and are one of the biggest (and wealthiest) car manufacturers in the world. There have been some greats: Supra, Celica, MR2, Landcruiser, AE86, LS400, LF-A, which to be fair I have not driven but most of my wife's family and in fact ourselves have Toyotas and they all have one thing in common, they're utterly dull to drive. Now to be fair, we bought ours (North American spec Corolla) because we liked the looks, it was good value, well-equipped and relatively roomy for the price.



To be fair, I wasn't expecting an exciting drive and the Corolla and its competitors pretty much all drove very similarly but I was expecting more comfortable seats, better NVH and better fuel economy. You would expect Toyota to be at the forefront of engine technology and indeed they were amongst the first manufacturers to have Twin Cam engines but 138bhp and 40mpg from a 1.8 and CVT gearbox isn't great, especially when you consider that my 10 year old Chrysler with a V6 and a 4-speed slushbox can do 35mpg, albeit not as consistently. The cabin quality isn't all that either. My wife would like a small SUV to replace it eventually and we may consider a RAV4 if they offer us a great deal but to be honest I prefer the look of the Honda CRV, Mazda CX5 or Hyundai Santa Fe. When we bought the Corolla, I really wanted one of these (Toyota Highlander)



purely based on showroom appeal. It had just come out when we were buying, so the dealership didn't have one to test drive and we decided to be "sensible" and get something cheaper but I actually had the opportunity to drive one recently and it was fine but just felt like you were driving a big estate car and didn't have the sense of occassion that our old Jeep had, so maybe that's just as well.

In addition, it seems that there have been quite a few quality problems recently, so maybe Toyota have been a bit complacent and are going through a quality dip like VW/Mercedes-Benz did in the late 90s/early 2000s. The way I see it, Honda has the quality aspect nailed, Mazdas are better looking, Nissans are more interesting and Hyundai/Kia offer similar quality and better warranty for less. Yes, you have the GT86, which is an excellent concept but from what I have read, the executions leaves a lot to be desired and it looks expensive compared to an MX5 or some of the more powerful FWD hot hatches.

So, what in your opinion is the most overrated car manufacturer?

Edited by white_goodman on Tuesday 28th October 19:15

powerstroke

10,283 posts

159 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
Land rover by a country mile and VAG very average these days.

white_goodman

Original Poster:

4,042 posts

190 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
powerstroke said:
Land rover by a country mile and VAG very average these days.
OK. Why Land Rover? Do you mean all of VAG, as Skoda still seem good value and well-rated by their owners?

Beer Man

249 posts

113 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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THE most overrated?

BMW.

to be fair, their marketing department must be staffed entirely by genius types as their cars are f****** awful

crossy67

1,570 posts

178 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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I can't believe no has mentioned the F word. That's right Fiat, no other car comes close to poor design and build quality in my quite extensive experience. How the hell do they win car of the year awards EVERY year?

powerstroke

10,283 posts

159 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
white_goodman said:
powerstroke said:
Land rover by a country mile and VAG very average these days.
OK. Why Land Rover? Do you mean all of VAG, as Skoda still seem good value and well-rated by their owners?
Land rovers are for people who want a 4x4 and not people who need them and VAG because they are a average quality make pretending to be premium

phil4

1,203 posts

237 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
Surely it's less the brand and more the models?

I mean, the cars you're mentioning all seem to be the run of the mill, everyone buys one, econoboxes. I guess that the manufactuers priority for designing these looks like this:

1) "normal" bland looks
2) Lots of cubby holes
3) plenty of seats
3) relatively cheap
4) relatively reliable
5) cheap to insure
6) cheapish to run
...
n+1) exciting to drive.

In other words, most people wouldn't know or want or care about having an exciting car, for them it's more about badge, can they use it for everything, and is it cheap enough.

So then in my mind this leaves the "marginal" cars that each manufactuer as as the more exciting to drive, the Toyota GT86, the Nissan 370Z/GTR, the VW R, The Ford ST/RS. In each of those cars to a relative degree the priorities above have been reordered. Partly so the manufacturer can charge more, but also partly because the buyer is atypical and so less worried about the top of the list, and more about performance, driving etc.

So this leaves me with the car manufacturers with nothing interesting in their line up as the really dull ones these days... Honda for example (thought Civic Type R round the corner).

jontysafe

2,351 posts

177 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
Aston Martin.

Looked at a V8 vantage against a 911 and an M6.

Mediocre was Not even good enough for the Aston. Quite simply more badge than engineering and slow as buggery. M6 far less shouty and look at me. Performance wasn't even on the same page.

thelawnet

1,539 posts

154 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
How can you say toyota are overrated for being boring. That's their selling point. You might as well say Bosch washing machines are overrated because they are boring.

In terms of the general public:

  • Land Rover/Range Rover - among school mums
  • Mercedes - with South Asian gentlemen, when they'd be better off with a Hyundai

Adz The Rat

13,947 posts

208 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
jontysafe said:
Aston Martin.

Looked at a V8 vantage against a 911 and an M6.

Mediocre was Not even good enough for the Aston. Quite simply more badge than engineering and slow as buggery. M6 far less shouty and look at me. Performance wasn't even on the same page.
I would have to agree with Aston Martin. Very cheap feeling cars, none of them are particularly exciting to drive.

Urban Sports

11,321 posts

202 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
Beer Man said:
THE most overrated?

BMW.

to be fair, their marketing department must be staffed entirely by genius types as their cars are f****** awful
And driven by utter pricks.

powerstroke

10,283 posts

159 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
Urban Sports said:
Beer Man said:
THE most overrated?

BMW.

to be fair, their marketing department must be staffed entirely by genius types as their cars are f****** awful
And driven by utter pricks.
I think the pricks have moved on to Audi
I've found BMW drivers seem to let you out of junction's
And even use indicators sometimes

Urban Sports

11,321 posts

202 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
powerstroke said:
Urban Sports said:
Beer Man said:
THE most overrated?

BMW.

to be fair, their marketing department must be staffed entirely by genius types as their cars are f****** awful
And driven by utter pricks.
I think the pricks have moved on to Audi
I've found BMW drivers seem to let you out of junction's
And even use indicators sometimes
No they don't.

feef

5,206 posts

182 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
Beer Man said:
THE most overrated?

BMW.

to be fair, their marketing department must be staffed entirely by genius types as their cars are f****** awful
hear hear.

My sister and her husband chose BMWs for their company cars, and I was interested to see what they were like. Far from poverty spec, I still found them uninspiring inside and out, and the ride? My lowered MX5 is less jarring!

Beer Man

249 posts

113 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
Urban Sports said:
No they don't.
laugh


white_goodman

Original Poster:

4,042 posts

190 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
thelawnet said:
How can you say toyota are overrated for being boring. That's their selling point. You might as well say Bosch washing machines are overrated because they are boring.
Yes, I wanted a safe and reliable family car for my wife and on those counts the Toyota delivers so far (although it should be reliable at 6 months old and 8000km). If I refer you to my OP though, I would expect certain qualities to be better and surely it doesn't have to be totally dull to drive?

"To be fair, I wasn't expecting an exciting drive and the Corolla and its competitors pretty much all drove very similarly but I was expecting more comfortable seats, better NVH and better fuel economy. You would expect Toyota to be at the forefront of engine technology and indeed they were amongst the first manufacturers to have Twin Cam engines but 138bhp and 40mpg from a 1.8 and CVT gearbox isn't great, especially when you consider that my 10 year old Chrysler with a V6 and a 4-speed slushbox can do 35mpg, albeit not as consistently. The cabin quality isn't all that either."

I must stand up for Fiat, as we had a 500 from new for 3.5 years and it was exemplary whilst being love it or hate it, much more interesting than anything else new at the same price. Reasonable performance and a consistent 50mpg from that 1.2 engine too. My only issue was above average servicing costs. Spark plugs as a first service item in this day and age. Wtf? I don't think the media overhypes Fiats but it's nice to have an interesting alternative, even if technically they are not perfect (i.e. the steering and ride on our 500 wasn't the best).

miniman

24,827 posts

261 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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Having owned three, I think one of the least likely manufacturers for me to consider today is Audi.

My boss has an A7 3.0TDi CVT, black with black leather. Just sitting in it makes me car sick. The ride is diabolical, the leather wouldn't be out of place in a 1980s Buick, it's dark, gloomy and ugly. The LCD display that motors out of the dash is OTT. The controls seem to need a 12 year old Japanese kid to operate them. Ugh.

I took a friend to look at a few motors - she ended up with an Evoke, but the Audi dealership was some kind of diabolical hell. It was like a palace of excess. In Swindon.


996TT02

3,308 posts

139 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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Again, VAG.

markcoznottz

7,155 posts

223 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Look the part, but that's easy for the price. Average tech, average dynamics, very good paint, average engines.

surveyor

17,768 posts

183 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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I've yet to drive a VW that does not bore me instantly. Audi not much better.