What is the most overrated car manufacturer?
Discussion
Beer Man said:
Well if you must know I'm 38 and wayyyyy past half term.
Car history (all genuine) should give an idea to whether I'm a car 'enthusiast' and just because I loathe the blue and white propellor does that not make me a car person????
Your posting style is rather childish, I suspect that's why you were questioned on your age.Car history (all genuine) should give an idea to whether I'm a car 'enthusiast' and just because I loathe the blue and white propellor does that not make me a car person????
I see you've had a couple of Alfa Romeos so I suppose you do know a bit about overrated things ;-)
No, it's just the way you write I think Beer Man (as said above it comes across as a much younger person has written it).
There are marques I think less of than others, of course. But to dismiss BMW in the way you have with no real founding other than some anecdotal stuff about having owned one (doesn't show in your car history btw) and some family having one or something... well, it doesn't really sit for me.
Even someone who dislikes BMW for something subjective like styling would objectively have to concede they make some of the best engines on the market and still offer some of the best driver feedback in a given class.
A 320d is unlikely to be a thrill a minute but I state with confidence it'll likely be a better steer than the equivalent from Audi, VW or any number of others....
So, over-rated? Perhaps if you approach BMW as the Ultimate Driving Machine then yes, you may be a little disappointed, but in terms of realistic expectations of striking everyday usability with a modicum of performance and a nod to dynamics I don't think any of the big players do it better.
There are marques I think less of than others, of course. But to dismiss BMW in the way you have with no real founding other than some anecdotal stuff about having owned one (doesn't show in your car history btw) and some family having one or something... well, it doesn't really sit for me.
Even someone who dislikes BMW for something subjective like styling would objectively have to concede they make some of the best engines on the market and still offer some of the best driver feedback in a given class.
A 320d is unlikely to be a thrill a minute but I state with confidence it'll likely be a better steer than the equivalent from Audi, VW or any number of others....
So, over-rated? Perhaps if you approach BMW as the Ultimate Driving Machine then yes, you may be a little disappointed, but in terms of realistic expectations of striking everyday usability with a modicum of performance and a nod to dynamics I don't think any of the big players do it better.
Edited by DoubleSix on Wednesday 29th October 12:03
Beer Man said:
It's in a post of mine above.
Anyhow, my "Why?" was in response to DoubleSix's post, not yours.
Sorry, I was just trying to explain why you're being called a troll and perhaps trying to help you be more accepted on here. I've found your post on the previous page (page 6) and most of it is just empty vitriol with no reasoning behind it. However, at the end of your post you seem to be assuming people buy BMWs because they're reliable and well made, which surely is just your mis-understanding - that's why people buy Toyotas and Hondas, not BMWs. However, they're not that unreliable and you seeing more BMWs broken down than any other make, that's extremely unlikely. Don't forget how common BMWs are, so if 30% (or whatever percentage it is) of the broken down cars you see are BMWs it might just be because 30% of cars are BMWs... I do a lot of miles and I haven't noticed any pattern at all in cars that I see broken down at the side of the road (which is actually a rare sight these days by the way!) - from what you say it seems likely you're either forgetting to take into account the number of BMWs there are about, or just remembering the BMWs you see broken down and forgetting about the other makes; it's a common thing to do and it's also where the 'not indicating' thing comes from that you'll read elsewhere (as well as a lot of other human prejudices). If you're going to state that a particular car is rubbish, you need a proper reason!Anyhow, my "Why?" was in response to DoubleSix's post, not yours.
shoestring7 said:
So 5.5m Beetles sold in the US over nearly four decades was a failed attempt to crack the US market then?
SS7
The last Beetle was sold in the USA in 1977. By your logic British Leyland have nothing to worry about with all those Healeys, MGs and Triumph sports cars they sold in the US. I think it's fair to say that the VW shareholders are probably not impressed with proud boasts of business achievements from half a century ago.SS7
8 pages so far mainly bashing German marques! 
hondansx said:
My experience of VWs over recent years is that reliability and build quality is nothing special and in some circumstances poor; certainly not befitting of their reputation.
I find this to be very true, I have had 8 GTi Golfs spanning 5 different iterations, the end is product is very good. The reliability is average and the customer service is below that of a Ford Main Dealer.So from a point of view of 'If everything in life was as reliable as a Volkswagen' they are massively over-rated.
This is coming from a person who has owned a few of them, still get tempted by the 'cooking' versions of the product line-up today and has been to Wolfsburg for a Factory Tour and the museum thingie
DoubleSix said:
There are marques I think less of than others, of course. But to dismiss BMW in the way you have with no real founding other than some anecdotal stuff about having owned one (doesn't show in your car history btw) and some family having one or something... well, it doesn't really sit for me.
Even someone who dislikes BMW for something subjective like styling would objectively have to concede they make some of the best engines on the market and still offer some of the best driver feedback in a given class.
A 320d is unlikely to be a thrill a minute but I state with confidence it'll likely be a better steer than the equivalent from Audi, VW or any number of others....
So, over-rated? Perhaps if you approach BMW as the Ultimate Driving Machine then yes, you may be a little disappointed, but in terms of realistic expectations of striking everyday usability with a modicum of performance and a nod to dynamics I don't think any of the big players do it better.
Great post! (a nice perspective on BMW as well - and that's a marque that I'm not keen on).Even someone who dislikes BMW for something subjective like styling would objectively have to concede they make some of the best engines on the market and still offer some of the best driver feedback in a given class.
A 320d is unlikely to be a thrill a minute but I state with confidence it'll likely be a better steer than the equivalent from Audi, VW or any number of others....
So, over-rated? Perhaps if you approach BMW as the Ultimate Driving Machine then yes, you may be a little disappointed, but in terms of realistic expectations of striking everyday usability with a modicum of performance and a nod to dynamics I don't think any of the big players do it better.
Edited by DoubleSix on Wednesday 29th October 12:03
dme123 said:
shoestring7 said:
So 5.5m Beetles sold in the US over nearly four decades was a failed attempt to crack the US market then?
SS7
The last Beetle was sold in the USA in 1977. By your logic British Leyland have nothing to worry about with all those Healeys, MGs and Triumph sports cars they sold in the US. I think it's fair to say that the VW shareholders are probably not impressed with proud boasts of business achievements from half a century ago.SS7
Meanwhile VW shareholders have probably noted that they've sold 4 million cars in the USA in the last dozen years or so while BL haven't sold one.
SS7
Beer Man said:
THE most overrated?
BMW.
to be fair, their marketing department must be staffed entirely by genius types as their cars are f****** awful
I have found my wifes 120D to be alright to drive, but in general it is stupidly designed (took 1hr 30 mins to change the air filter!!!!!!), has niggling faults and in the end it's desicded to gunge itself up anyway. The gearbox is very good but thats because its a ZF. BMW.
to be fair, their marketing department must be staffed entirely by genius types as their cars are f****** awful
My brother had an MX5 but did need something a bit more practical. So he bought a BMW 118i. He found it alright...and that was it, it was alright. He thought it boring to drive, but reasonably comfy. He sold it and bout a honda civic sport 1.6 (2004/2005 model) and loves it to bits. Says its far more interesting and involving to drive.
I dont like most german stuff - they throw on the latest and greatest gadgets and tech, but it all goes wrong and fails spectacularly leaving the owner with a massive repair bill (or maybe ive been unlucky)
I like jap cars.
Edited by thatdude on Wednesday 29th October 12:45
shoestring7 said:
I'm not sure what you're responding to but I was responding to a poster who claimed that VW had spent 'decades' trying to crack the US market and after some short-lived success they failed.
Meanwhile VW shareholders have probably noted that they've sold 4 million cars in the USA in the last dozen years or so while BL haven't sold one.
SS7
My point about them trying to crack the US market was referring more to their efforts in the last 20 odd years. Since the Beetle they have had no great success in the US and their cars are generally regarded as expensive, fragile and unreliable. Yes they did have success there in the 60s and 70s with the Beetle but in context of a discussion about perceptions today that doesn't really seem relevant. They had something approaching a breakthrough with the Jetta and Mk 4 Golf selling in reasonable numbers but all that achieved in the longer term was a complete destruction of their reputation.Meanwhile VW shareholders have probably noted that they've sold 4 million cars in the USA in the last dozen years or so while BL haven't sold one.
SS7
Buyers in the US seem to be willing to accept high maintenance costs on "prestige" vehicles (or lease them so don't give a s
t anyway), so Audi can get away with it, but for mainstream cars they seem to expect them to be close to indestructible with servicing carried out at Jiffy Lube.Who is the bigger fool, the person who buys a VAG/BMW/Land Rover/Merc/Porsche just for the brand, or the PH members who will discount a brand completely because they perceive them to be driven exclusively by w**kers/aspirational wannabees/people with no imagination?
Maybe, just maybe, these manufacturers produce good cars that people want. If they are so overrated, why do people go back and buy them again and again.
Maybe, just maybe, these manufacturers produce good cars that people want. If they are so overrated, why do people go back and buy them again and again.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but it is impressive that there are so many negative sentiments about Audi/VAG. Evidently VAG is Audi, VW, Porsche,Lamborghini, Bentley,Skoda and so on, so to rate VAG makes no sense to me.
If we go to individual marques, not sure that there are standouts,but I would say;
(1) Toyota. They play to a specific audience in in terms of actual product they seem fine to me. I think there is a fair sized gap between the historic reputation of bulletproof quality and the much more average quality of the current product.
(2) BMW. ( I have owned many of these). The problem is not quality/reliability, but the gradual softening of the brand from having more raw drivers' cars to more luxury than was traditional.Perhaps no longer the ultimate driving machine
(3) Rolls-Royce. When I was a kid the brand meant refinement, discretion, elegance (Yes,yes..there was John Lennon), but now it seems quite vulgar and flashy.
(4) Bentley…not dissimilar to R-R.
If we go to individual marques, not sure that there are standouts,but I would say;
(1) Toyota. They play to a specific audience in in terms of actual product they seem fine to me. I think there is a fair sized gap between the historic reputation of bulletproof quality and the much more average quality of the current product.
(2) BMW. ( I have owned many of these). The problem is not quality/reliability, but the gradual softening of the brand from having more raw drivers' cars to more luxury than was traditional.Perhaps no longer the ultimate driving machine
(3) Rolls-Royce. When I was a kid the brand meant refinement, discretion, elegance (Yes,yes..there was John Lennon), but now it seems quite vulgar and flashy.
(4) Bentley…not dissimilar to R-R.
yonex said:
130i
M135
As for Audi, I don't agree.
No you've missed my point. I realise that BMW make some fantastic petrol engines, but if we take the one series as an example, what do be people buy more of, the 130i/M135i or the 4 pot Oil burner in various states of tune.M135
As for Audi, I don't agree.
I don't think a car manufacturer can be criticised for making what people obviously want to buy.
f1nn said:
I don't think a car manufacturer can be criticised for making what people obviously want to buy.
No, they can't. This thread shouldn't be about criticising manufacturers, anyway; overrated does not mean bad. A car can be the best car in the world and still be hugely overrated.
No, it shouldn't be, but as usual it would seem to have degenerated into the usual BMW/Audi bashing non sense.
Ignoring that, I am struggling to think of a car that I have driven that I would say is over rated, some are better than others but they all have their merits.
It's almost impossible to think of a manufacturer who I would consider to be completely over rated.
Ignoring that, I am struggling to think of a car that I have driven that I would say is over rated, some are better than others but they all have their merits.
It's almost impossible to think of a manufacturer who I would consider to be completely over rated.
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