What is the most overrated car manufacturer?
Discussion
markcoznottz said:
Look the part, but that's easy for the price. Average tech, average dynamics, very good paint, average engines.
Disappointed that so many have said Aston, as an Aston Martin would be my dream car. They all look fantastic and average engines? Surely, they're all V8s and V12s and sound fantastic. What's average about that? Not a 4-pot diesel in sight!In my opinion, Audi. It seems to be the badge to be seen with right now, a status which seems to have been achieved on the back of a reputation for ‘German Reliability’ and ‘Innovative and Modern Design’, Even though these two attributes haven’t really been particularly apparent for well over a decade now.
They run a very intelligent business which panders very faithfully to what the buying public want, which regretfully for us outnumbered petrolheads seems to be more chrome effect plastic, bigger wheels and sharper creases than Mr. Jones’ model from last year. The cars are set up to handle accordingly, inert, safe and unthreatening for the ‘shiny thing’ appreciating lowest common denominator.
The tragic thing about all this is that other manufacturers seem to be seeking to emulate Audi’s approach, and with some success it must be said.
They run a very intelligent business which panders very faithfully to what the buying public want, which regretfully for us outnumbered petrolheads seems to be more chrome effect plastic, bigger wheels and sharper creases than Mr. Jones’ model from last year. The cars are set up to handle accordingly, inert, safe and unthreatening for the ‘shiny thing’ appreciating lowest common denominator.
The tragic thing about all this is that other manufacturers seem to be seeking to emulate Audi’s approach, and with some success it must be said.
RyanTank said:
Agree here, Ford are on the right track with cars at the moment, they have a good engine base and can produce cheap, well designed cars that people are buying, that's good business no?
There's also a reason why the Fiesta ST keeps getting awarded the best hot hatch award over the RSClio & 208GTI.
Not only is it cheaper fully speck'd than its French rivals but it's got a proper manual box, the only constant criticism it gets is that its not available in 5 doors, and tbh is that really a bad thing for a sport little hatchback?
I stand corrected. In the UK at least, they are fairly cheap. I remember when Ford put their prices up a few years ago and in many cases, Fords were more expensive than the equivalent VW but I see now that Foci start at 14k and Golfs at 17k, which is a fair saving. all things being equal, I would prefer the Golf but 17k for a base-spec Golf with a 1.2 engine and torsion beam rear suspension? That's crazy! However, when I was looking at new cars here in Canada, for the same money as a base spec Focus manual in flat red, you could get a top spec Corolla, Civic or Kia auto with metallic paint and a lot more features as standard. Heck, even the base spec Golf is the equivalent of 14k here, has a 1.8 Turbo engine and has everything as standard. The only small cars more expensive than the Focus were the 2-Series and Audi A3!There's also a reason why the Fiesta ST keeps getting awarded the best hot hatch award over the RSClio & 208GTI.
Not only is it cheaper fully speck'd than its French rivals but it's got a proper manual box, the only constant criticism it gets is that its not available in 5 doors, and tbh is that really a bad thing for a sport little hatchback?
I can't agree on the other points though. It seems in general that Ford do make a more reliable car than VAG now and the new Ecoboost engines give good power, torque and emissions for their size but real world economy falls massively short of Ford's claims and reliability of the engines and their "infotainment" system has not been good. The mk1 Ka, mk4 Fiesta, mk1 Focus and mk1 Mondeo all offered the best in drive class when they came out and cabin quality was acceptable in the 1990s but I don't really think that Ford interiors have come on a long way since then. The mk3 Focus I drove had a horrid interior, as did the new Transit I hired last year. I test drove Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, Chevrolet and Toyota cars last year in addition to the Focus and it drove no better than any of the others, was a worse overall package than all with the possible exception of the Hyundai and the interior was on a par with Hyundai/Kia in terms of plastic quality and noticeably worse than the others. I don't have anything against Ford but I have driven plenty of mk1 Foci over the years and they were significantly better than their contemporaries, the mk3 Focus is not. Having said that, I do like the Fiesta, particularly the ST and would happily run one of them as a second car, as I think they are better looking than and almost as spacious as the Focus but significantly cheaper. Funnily enough, the Fiesta and Fiesta ST is ONLY available as a 5 door in North America! I think Ford would like us to think that their cars are still better to drive than the competition but in reality, (ST models excepted), they are not any longer!
wormus said:
powerstroke said:
Land rovers are for people who want a 4x4 and not people who need them
Not in all cases, if you have a family and occasionally need 7 seats, go to the dump/need to tow a trailer, they are extremely useful cars. People who make inverted snob comments about Landies or Range Rovers should have listened harder at school so they could afford to run one. 
white_goodman said:
ess said:
Alfa Romeo (unless they get their act together)
Good suggestion (more so than Fiat). I always hope they're going to be great but they always seem to come up short of the mark.Lack of investment.
Think they need something along the lines of what Tata did with JLR.
A historic brand, here's a blank cheque, now go and build great cars.
viggyp said:
crossy67 said:
I can't believe no has mentioned the F word. That's right Fiat, no other car comes close to poor design and build quality in my quite extensive experience. How the hell do they win car of the year awards EVERY year?
Probably because they've never been rated that highly like most German or Japanese manufacturers. They're average at best. Saying that, I've owned 7 Fiats and hardly had any issues although you're right about build quality. My Grande Punto is squeaking inside something chronic after 7 years of ownership. It was nice and quiet inside. Great engines though. 
t but pound for pound they're decent cars.I've owned them on and off for years and they've stubbornly refused to fall apart like everyone says they should.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Strong brand, regarded as very cool plus the Bond connection is invaluable but to me they always struck me as last generation technology (especially engine/gearbox) dressed up in a fancy (albeit nice looking) frock.Their most recent models have been more about sticking on random bits of carbon fibre (making the car look progressively worse) than any genuine innovation. Let's not forget the Emotional Control Unit. And the Cygnet...wtf. Tarted up Jap supermini with an uber premium price because they put some leather seats in? Clowns.
No wonder they needed to set up the partnership with AMG.
Luckily for AM (unmeasurable) character/soul etc was always cited as a reason to purchase against reportedly 'dull' or 'characterless' opposition. As a result I get the impression that AM get an easy ride in the UK press.
Don't worry, I'm sure eventually Mercedes will buy them and sort them out in the same way VW did to Bentley and BMW to Rolls Royce.
Overrated by the UK motoring press - Ford.
To be bluntly honest I felt the Opel/Vauxhall Insignia felt more 'as one' back when they were out and was a far nicer place to be in than the contemporary Mondeo.
While much has been made of the Mondeo's dynamics in Autocar and Auto Express, I never could escape the feeling there was this big, lardy body lagging behind a sharp, responsive chassis IYKWIM. And for some reason Ford interiors always look and feel low-rent, with dashboards and instrument panels reminding me of the cheap 'hifi' sets from high street retailers meant to grace teenagers' bedrooms.
Overrated by the general public - Audi, by a country mile. Very average dynamics and very average quality, too, if you look past the thin veneer of its interior appointments. Built from generic VAG Lego blocks, no bespoke engineering going on whatesoever until you reach the highest echelons in the range. The vast majority is being powered by rather undistinghuished and unrefined four banger diesels from the Volkswagen parts bin. Eight or nine out of ten they are being specced with the 'S-Line' bling package containing huge gangstarapper wheels that downgrade the already rather average ride and handling qualities to diabolical. The few models that aren't being wholly outclassed by their BMW and Mercedes counterparts, are still devoid of character or interest.
Yet the public at large seems to think Audis are at the zenith of automotive sophistication...
To be bluntly honest I felt the Opel/Vauxhall Insignia felt more 'as one' back when they were out and was a far nicer place to be in than the contemporary Mondeo.
While much has been made of the Mondeo's dynamics in Autocar and Auto Express, I never could escape the feeling there was this big, lardy body lagging behind a sharp, responsive chassis IYKWIM. And for some reason Ford interiors always look and feel low-rent, with dashboards and instrument panels reminding me of the cheap 'hifi' sets from high street retailers meant to grace teenagers' bedrooms.
Overrated by the general public - Audi, by a country mile. Very average dynamics and very average quality, too, if you look past the thin veneer of its interior appointments. Built from generic VAG Lego blocks, no bespoke engineering going on whatesoever until you reach the highest echelons in the range. The vast majority is being powered by rather undistinghuished and unrefined four banger diesels from the Volkswagen parts bin. Eight or nine out of ten they are being specced with the 'S-Line' bling package containing huge gangstarapper wheels that downgrade the already rather average ride and handling qualities to diabolical. The few models that aren't being wholly outclassed by their BMW and Mercedes counterparts, are still devoid of character or interest.
Yet the public at large seems to think Audis are at the zenith of automotive sophistication...
Honda - they may well make well built cars, but (apart from the Civic) they're bland to look at, the engine range is poor and they're priced too high.
Case in point - before the current Accord was release, this was the "concept" that was doing the rounds:
I liked this, but what did we end up with...this:
Talk about bland.....
Case in point - before the current Accord was release, this was the "concept" that was doing the rounds:
I liked this, but what did we end up with...this:
Talk about bland.....
viggyp said:
crossy67 said:
I can't believe no has mentioned the F word. That's right Fiat, no other car comes close to poor design and build quality in my quite extensive experience. How the hell do they win car of the year awards EVERY year?
Probably because they've never been rated that highly like most German or Japanese manufacturers. They're average at best. Saying that, I've owned 7 Fiats and hardly had any issues although you're right about build quality. My Grande Punto is squeaking inside something chronic after 7 years of ownership. It was nice and quiet inside. Great engines though. Is now a good time to remind everyone that Audi went to visit the Panda factory to learn about quality?
http://www.carscoops.com/2013/04/vw-audi-experts-v...
Actually Jaguar - based on my sample size of 1 (having only ever owned 1) our XF got worse and worse as the miles racked up (owned it from new to 55k miles in just under 3 years) and it frequently broke down, consumed a dozen headlights in the time we owned it, spent weeks in the dealer with electrical issues (never resolved), got through 2 sets of rear brake pads and 1 set of fronts in the time we owned it, yet the British motoring press never say a bad word against Jaguar.
jontysafe said:
Aston Martin.
Looked at a V8 vantage against a 911 and an M6.
Mediocre was Not even good enough for the Aston. Quite simply more badge than engineering and slow as buggery. M6 far less shouty and look at me. Performance wasn't even on the same page.
+1 to this my friend, V8V was a terd compared to the 997 & R8 I tried when last buying. And the owners on this forum... some are OK but 'pleased with themselves' doesn't get close, odd considering many of them are driving a car worth the same as a new 3 seriesLooked at a V8 vantage against a 911 and an M6.
Mediocre was Not even good enough for the Aston. Quite simply more badge than engineering and slow as buggery. M6 far less shouty and look at me. Performance wasn't even on the same page.
white_goodman said:
jhonn said:
Sorry.. another question - overrated for what?
Reliability?
Performance?
Economy?
Looks?
Value?
Longevity?
Any of those? I guess I've only nominated manufacturers that I have actually driven though.Reliability?
Performance?
Economy?
Looks?
Value?
Longevity?
Performance - Can't think of any
Economy - all of them
Looks - Mercedes
Value - Dacia (or maybe Mini)
Longevity - Landrover
No scientific basis for the above at all - based purely on a smattering of experience and perceptions from the media. YMMV
powerstroke said:
Hmm you do realize there are other makes of 4x4s some even come with 7 seats !!!
My comment was meant tongue in cheek. I only have a Disco 3 because it's so useful to me. For example last weekend I went to the tip and on the way home popped in to get a new tumble dryrer (rock and roll!) No need to put the seats down, simply slung it in the back. It's comfy, the stereo is pretty good and will seat 7 adults in comfort. Every time I think about changing it, the only alternative I can come up with is a Disco 4 and that's essentially the same car.Wouldn't get a RR sport though, they are just too yummy-mummy/self-made builder.
wormus said:
My comment was meant tongue in cheek. I only have a Disco 3 because it's so useful to me. For example last weekend I went to the tip and on the way home popped in to get a new tumble dryrer (rock and roll!) No need to put the seats down, simply slung it in the back. It's comfy, the stereo is pretty good and will seat 7 adults in comfort. Every time I think about changing it, the only alternative I can come up with is a Disco 4 and that's essentially the same car.
A D4 is an enormous advance over a D3.Overall I think VAG. Very occasionally they produce something that is truly great, but most of what they produce is just transport. In which case the Korean's produce cars just as capable for significantly less cash.
A prime example I think is the MK7 Golf, I honestly can't think of a more bland piece of design which has received such wide ranging acclaim. I'd much rather have a Kia Pro Cee'd GT.
A prime example I think is the MK7 Golf, I honestly can't think of a more bland piece of design which has received such wide ranging acclaim. I'd much rather have a Kia Pro Cee'd GT.
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