What is the most overrated car manufacturer?
Discussion
trashbat said:
Oilchange said:
..just a thought but how long exactly do you expect brake pads to last because 55000 miles for 2 sets of rears is good but for a set of fronts is pretty bloody amazing!
Is it? I'm on at least 53k on my fronts and they've still got loads of meat on them.wemorgan said:
Nice confitent post of yours. I'm in the business, I know. Attend eurocarbody conference, you'll quickly see the difference between mass market and niche.
Ps. Not all cars meet the same crash test. Legislative, consumer, European, North american, China etc etc, they are all different. Nice try.
Bit more than a nice try. I was"in the business" for many years. Please list your experience in R&D, then provide us some sample costings for a regular vehicle with respect to hot climate, cold climate, NVH, Impact and emission testing to that of a supercar project you have been involved with....Ps. Not all cars meet the same crash test. Legislative, consumer, European, North american, China etc etc, they are all different. Nice try.
Edited by wemorgan on Saturday 10th January 19:49
Beer Man said:
FeelingLucky said:
Beer Man said:
THE most overrated?
BMW.
to be fair, their marketing department must be staffed entirely by genius types as their cars are f****** awful
As soon as I read the header I thought some knobbler is bound to say BMW, the manufacturer that makes the //M series.BMW.
to be fair, their marketing department must be staffed entirely by genius types as their cars are f****** awful
Cars that (almost always) hugely out perform their underpinnings. Have a read through the other suggestions and ask yourself, did you call it right with BMW?
Anyway, apart from the M3, M5 and M6 (which, let's face it, are either ugly or bland), which, if my baby maths is correct, is three cars.
Out of HOW many in the range?????
Bleeding heck good job getting everyone worked up (comes on car enthusiast thread... drops bombshell slating popular brand with higher percentage of enthusiast type cars than most brands... sticks with argument as if completely serious... stirs pot just enough to cause excellent and entertaining conversation
) but you missed out on a good opportunity to incorporate some pedantic frustration into your abrasive angry man role play character.... Good thread topic in so far as having no end or resolution what so ever, this forum is populated in general by people with a keen interest in cars who can recognize individual cars on their strengths and weaknesses so "overrated" is a bit of a foreign concept, some cars are crap, some are good some are boring and luxurious, others will rattle your fillings out on a bumpy road but thrill you over a twisty open road.
My 2 cents... Aston Martin- more flash than substance like Range Rover Sport too but some people love them so in their eyes they're not at all overrated (Have to admit I was having a laugh a minute driving a friends supercharged 5 litre RRS around)
Claudia Skies said:
ORD said:
Even the C-Class is, in my view, pretty unforgiveable at the price point.
What in particular do you think is the problem? I've been looking at the 3-series and C-class which both seem pretty sound value so long as you don't get carried away wanting a huge engine and lots of shiny options. It's cars like Golf which look expensive to me.The interior is also not great, but that's very subjective.
Ultimately, my view on it was that it did nothing better than the 3 series and a few things worse.
I think AM is a good shout. I've not driven many, but I am always surprised by how old fashioned and stodgy they feel. Rested on laurels in a very big way (due to funding constraints, to be fair).
Still, I doubt many buy them for dynamics, so they probably satisfy most of their owners.
Still, I doubt many buy them for dynamics, so they probably satisfy most of their owners.
Oilchange said:
Mmm. Did he/she ever use them? Did they simply use the handbrake? In an M3... Like it was never driven to the point where it had to brake hard... I don't believe a word.
That's okay...try believing four words then.........95k on original brakesav185 said:
My cousins e46 m3 did 95k on original brakes......
RobM77 said:
The thing is that even if you don't like FE/RWD cars like MX5s, TVRs, Ferrari GTs, Astons, Caterhams, AC Cobras etc, you have to admit there are people out there who do, so on that basis, what are those people supposed to buy for a family car that also has that popular FE/RWD handling? Most people I know who have owned a string of BMWs (me included), don't do it out of love for the marque, moreso out of love for the layout of FE/RWD coupled with a manual gearbox and a reasonably low CofG. I'm not sure there's even a case for them being under-rated or over-rated, because so few other manufacturers do what they do.
Well put many do buy them for the roundel on the bonnet to impress the neighbours but many including myself (OK on my first one only) buy them despite of their potential yuppy image for exactly the reasons described by RobM. There are very few reasonable daily driver cars that tick those boxes. I don't love my current car but I very much appreciate it's driving characteristics.If cost was no object I'd have a silly extravagant supercar for fun and a comfy mobile lounge SUV for shopping/school runs. At the moment can't justify running 2 cars so a saloon that is fun to drive is a reasonable compromise.
av185 said:
trashbat said:
Oilchange said:
..just a thought but how long exactly do you expect brake pads to last because 55000 miles for 2 sets of rears is good but for a set of fronts is pretty bloody amazing!
Is it? I'm on at least 53k on my fronts and they've still got loads of meat on them.Then there are those that brake excessively when a little adjustment to their driving style would mean they would brake much less and often no need to brake at all and still arrive in the same time.
Leaving the M25 and joining the M40 west I joined the M40 alongside a 3-Series who was in the outside lane always close to the vehicles in front. On and off the brakes all the time. My young son alongside started counting the times the 3-series brake lights went on. My son gave up counting after one hundred applications. When I left the M40 towards Oxford the 3-series was all of one hundred metres in front of me and still too close to the car in front on and off the brakes all the time. There are many drivers like that.
Guess how many times I applied my brakes during that same stretch of M40 motorway .... Give you a clue. The total was less than one.
Oh yes, I often deploy the engine and gearbox to reduce speed. Guess how many times I've needed to repair my gearbox or engine in over fifty years of motoring. Again the total is less than one. Maybe I've simply been lucky... There again, maybe my technique plays a large part in that ...
whysub said:
RobM77 said:
The thing is that even if you don't like FE/RWD cars like MX5s, TVRs, Ferrari GTs, Astons, Caterhams, AC Cobras etc, you have to admit there are people out there who do, so on that basis, what are those people supposed to buy for a family car that also has that popular FE/RWD handling? Most people I know who have owned a string of BMWs (me included), don't do it out of love for the marque, moreso out of love for the layout of FE/RWD coupled with a manual gearbox and a reasonably low CofG. I'm not sure there's even a case for them being under-rated or over-rated, because so few other manufacturers do what they do.
I would imagine that a vast proportion of UK drivers would not know if the car they drive is FWD or RWD. No; I would suspect, care.
....Have seen images of BMWs with snow chains on the FRONT wheels! Ignorance or their users are having a giraffe ...
... correction ... 
av185 said:
trashbat said:
Oilchange said:
..just a thought but how long exactly do you expect brake pads to last because 55000 miles for 2 sets of rears is good but for a set of fronts is pretty bloody amazing!
Is it? I'm on at least 53k on my fronts and they've still got loads of meat on them.
RobM77 said:
We were discussing the opinions of petrolheads though, which is a very different thing to the opinions of the other 99.99% of the population. If a petrolhead can't tell the difference between the way a BMW drives and an Audi, Mondeo or other FWD car drives, then I don't think they're in a position to state that BMW are over-rated, it's their ignorance that make them seem over-rated, not them actually being over-rated. That would be like me saying that single malt whiskey is over-rated, when I know very little about Whiskey.
This is on the money. How do you determine if a manufacturer is overrated without trying a fair representation of the model range and also an equivalent amount of the competition, assuming you have the knowledge to distinguish the difference?.Edited by RobM77 on Saturday 10th January 18:43
I have owned many BMWs from 1986 to model year 2006. Ranged from Early 5 series through E39 538i,540i,M5, then 645ci and E63 M6. I and other cars at the same time. In the end, I have no clue whether the manufacturer was overrated as they had all sorts of cars I never drove.Most of the cars I had were good for my needs.
OTOH,over those many years I rarely drove a Jag or a Benz for instance. So, even with multiple car experience I have no idea if BMW is overrated.
We are each different. Personally I do not get Astons, but they are revered by others. Maybe Astons are amazing, but there is no emotional pull to go try one, so I have no opinion about them. Oddly maybe I am the only person on earth who does not really get modern Ferraris. I have seen the reviews and do not doubt that they are excellent. Just not for me. Thus, trying to make the assessment on overrated manufacturers seems futile.
RDMcG said:
We are each different. Personally I do not get Astons, but they are revered by others. Maybe Astons are amazing, but there is no emotional pull to go try one, so I have no opinion about them.
They're just nice cars. Not hair-on-fire one million miles an hour cars, but a nice place to sit while lolloping along from A to B and on a day to day basis can be practical too. They're also quicker and more capable when being pushed than some commentators tend to observe, although it's fair to say that other manufacturers who compete at the same price point will be able to deliver faster lap times. But so what? Impasse said:
They're just nice cars. Not hair-on-fire one million miles an hour cars, but a nice place to sit while lolloping along from A to B and on a day to day basis can be practical too. They're also quicker and more capable when being pushed than some commentators tend to observe, although it's fair to say that other manufacturers who compete at the same price point will be able to deliver faster lap times. But so what?
I think that's the point. if you like Astons, Ferraris, or an Ariel Atom, its all about what you like. so for others to determine which manufacturer is overrated seems a pointless direction.Mound Dawg said:
Jordan Clarkson said:
Alfa Romeo
...but stuff like Mitos and Guillettias are not attractive at all in my opinion, I don't see the soul and passion people seem to think they have.
Um, those of us who are into old Alfas don't see the "soul and passion" in these either. Personally I think that the Mito is just like my Fiat Punto in a dress. And not a very nice dress either....but stuff like Mitos and Guillettias are not attractive at all in my opinion, I don't see the soul and passion people seem to think they have.
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