RE: Citroen AX GT: PH Ad Break
Discussion
crostonian said:
Don't get all this talk about safety, the Metro SOTW thread was full of it too. Don't know if it's a generation thing but I just get in a car and drive, how safe the car is never enters my mind.
Maybe it is but most people don't think about it until it happens, because like death it's something that you have to deny will ever happen *to you* in order to function. That didn't sound as dark in my head as it does having just read it. Now think of fluffy kittens, first kiss, first time you saw a Ferrari, etc.
Moving on:
The older generation (I mean no dis-respect) I think had a less 'cocooned' upbringing where it was cheap to move out young with your first love and 'get on'.
My parents were brought up in a less risk aware environment where health and safety didn't really exist. There was also a lazier attitude towards it, possibly as a hang-over from the second world war where crap happened on a regular basis.
Until the eighties it seems like everybody accepted that crap happened with no real explanation. This extended from smoking to food to drink to the work place to sex. I think there were few concerns about cars other than 'does it eventually stop in a relatively straight line' to 'does the floor wobble over speed bumps, or get wet when it rains'.
I mean no dis-respect to the older generation, I just think that's the way it was. I think therefore their attitude towards risk, and tolerance of it, is perhaps higher than following generations. I could of course be talking unsubstantiated nonsense, but as the this is the internet I expect it won't matter.
Baz Tench said:
Why do more and more people bring up crash testing on here when these old motors are featured? It was the same in the Metro SOTW thread.
Who cares?
I had great fun in cars like this! If you are constantly worried about crashing, you'd never leave home, surely!
It all seems very un-PH.
Quite right - getting all too predictable. 80s cars (or anything without 5 star ncap) are too dangerous. It's like being on a mumsnet forum ..Who cares?
I had great fun in cars like this! If you are constantly worried about crashing, you'd never leave home, surely!
It all seems very un-PH.
Edited by Baz Tench on Wednesday 29th October 16:18
I adored my AX GT and later GTi.
The GT was my fourth car but the first car I'd bought designed with performance in mind; previous cars had just been about getting the biggest engine the insurer would allow.
It was a revelation. Running the long way down from Liverpool to Swansea along the Welsh borders to see a mate is still a defining drive in my live 20 years later. Pouring with rain and in the dark it felt so capable and like a rocket compared to previous steeds.
The GTi I bought several years after (and partly through nostalgia) was also brilliant, solving a lot of quality issues from the early car. Faster off the line but never quite as urgent mid-range as the older twin-choke carb fed GT.
My mate had a 205 GTi 1.6 at the time and was shocked that my GT, running effectively 205 XS/GT spec, was a match for it everywhere.
F344 TBV & J771 STF. No longer out there but much missed.
I loved both and didn't think of the safety at the time. I'm pretty certain I'll have one again at some stage. You never forget your first proper love.
The GT was my fourth car but the first car I'd bought designed with performance in mind; previous cars had just been about getting the biggest engine the insurer would allow.
It was a revelation. Running the long way down from Liverpool to Swansea along the Welsh borders to see a mate is still a defining drive in my live 20 years later. Pouring with rain and in the dark it felt so capable and like a rocket compared to previous steeds.
The GTi I bought several years after (and partly through nostalgia) was also brilliant, solving a lot of quality issues from the early car. Faster off the line but never quite as urgent mid-range as the older twin-choke carb fed GT.
My mate had a 205 GTi 1.6 at the time and was shocked that my GT, running effectively 205 XS/GT spec, was a match for it everywhere.
F344 TBV & J771 STF. No longer out there but much missed.
I loved both and didn't think of the safety at the time. I'm pretty certain I'll have one again at some stage. You never forget your first proper love.
Turbobanana said:
I wondered how long it would before the first "You'll die if you hit anything" post - not long, it seems, just like the Metro SOTW a few days back.
In comparison with today's Sherman Tanks, yes - this has the build quality of a McDonalds Happy Meal carton but so did everything else back then (barring real "heavyweight" stuff) and yet we, who drove them, are still here.
These, and their like (205XS, Metro GTA/i, 106 XSi, other cheap light performance cars) were cracking things to drive, sadly missing from today's model lineups.
Always comes up when anything older/smaller is the topic In comparison with today's Sherman Tanks, yes - this has the build quality of a McDonalds Happy Meal carton but so did everything else back then (barring real "heavyweight" stuff) and yet we, who drove them, are still here.
These, and their like (205XS, Metro GTA/i, 106 XSi, other cheap light performance cars) were cracking things to drive, sadly missing from today's model lineups.
Sometimes I think it might be them trying to justify their boring cars.
Cracking cars was so close to buying one a few years ago untill they sent the pics of the 'minimal rust' wasn't going to drive all the way to Carlisle for that!
My father had got an AX GT, brand new, when he retired.
I remember driving it and thinking that it was really light and nippy. But I also recall thinking, even then, that it felt incredibly flimsy.
I think the AX had the structural rigidity of a paper bag even when new. Lord knows what is was like once it got a bit saggy.
Hardly surprising that they are all but extinct. If I had one I would be surprised every morning to see that it had survived the night without collapsing in on itself.
I remember driving it and thinking that it was really light and nippy. But I also recall thinking, even then, that it felt incredibly flimsy.
I think the AX had the structural rigidity of a paper bag even when new. Lord knows what is was like once it got a bit saggy.
Hardly surprising that they are all but extinct. If I had one I would be surprised every morning to see that it had survived the night without collapsing in on itself.
Welcome to mumsnet 'cough' i mean pistonheads where safety comes first. Honestly why do these people obsessed with castrating every car on the planet even bother driving, never mind come to a website for car lovers?
From my experience on the road, the only thing safe cars are doing is creating more and more incompetent drivers who drive around in their mobile cots without any care or attention for what they are doing, at much faster than they are capable and all because the car is percieved to be safe.
Cars are that fool proof and safe that any moron can drive and this is more of a problem than these "tin" cars imo.
Knifes dont kill..
Guns dont kill..
Cars dont kill... People do.
The safer cars get the more chances people take.
Dont get me wrong if you want to drive about in bubble rap thats fine, but its these peoples insidious attitude that everybody should drive anodine mobile pillows because hey think its the best option that grates.
I used to own an micra briefly as a stop gap which are appalling in a crash(one crashed into me at one point) but i drove safely and kept my wits about me as i do in every car. Compare this to my motorbike and it felt incredibly safe. Is all relative. Now hopefully the do gooder bregade dont get their way and im curled up in the corner of my bedroom rapped in sponge breathing oxygen through a mask waiting to die naturally having lived a boring uneventfull life of fear of what COULD happen, suppose i shouldnt live in am old house incase it falls down on my head when im sleeping either.
If we want the roads to be safer its got alot more to do with the quality of drivers than the tools they use to drive. The safe cars are doing nothing but atract more incompetent drivers and i dont feel safe because they are on the road not because dave down the road drives and old car. All in my opinion from my experience. (dont want peoples ikle feeling to get hurt)
From my experience on the road, the only thing safe cars are doing is creating more and more incompetent drivers who drive around in their mobile cots without any care or attention for what they are doing, at much faster than they are capable and all because the car is percieved to be safe.
Cars are that fool proof and safe that any moron can drive and this is more of a problem than these "tin" cars imo.
Knifes dont kill..
Guns dont kill..
Cars dont kill... People do.
The safer cars get the more chances people take.
Dont get me wrong if you want to drive about in bubble rap thats fine, but its these peoples insidious attitude that everybody should drive anodine mobile pillows because hey think its the best option that grates.
I used to own an micra briefly as a stop gap which are appalling in a crash(one crashed into me at one point) but i drove safely and kept my wits about me as i do in every car. Compare this to my motorbike and it felt incredibly safe. Is all relative. Now hopefully the do gooder bregade dont get their way and im curled up in the corner of my bedroom rapped in sponge breathing oxygen through a mask waiting to die naturally having lived a boring uneventfull life of fear of what COULD happen, suppose i shouldnt live in am old house incase it falls down on my head when im sleeping either.
If we want the roads to be safer its got alot more to do with the quality of drivers than the tools they use to drive. The safe cars are doing nothing but atract more incompetent drivers and i dont feel safe because they are on the road not because dave down the road drives and old car. All in my opinion from my experience. (dont want peoples ikle feeling to get hurt)
Edited by Atomsforpeace on Thursday 30th October 17:03
I suppose the other problem is that if your going to drive an unsafe car, it should offset the risk with other factors.
The AX is an old budget shopping trolley. It's not a lotus 7 for example, it's not rwd, and to be frank, it's not particularly cool either.
The fact it's also a deathtrap is just the icing on the cake.
The AX is an old budget shopping trolley. It's not a lotus 7 for example, it's not rwd, and to be frank, it's not particularly cool either.
The fact it's also a deathtrap is just the icing on the cake.
Dan Friel said:
And that's exactly why the Panda 100HP / Swift Sport / Twingo Renaultsport have been so popular.. and they won't rust..
Spot on. I never drove an AX GT but did drive a 1.0 and 1.1. They were great fun for what they were and vastly better to drive than some of the ghastly company car fodder of the time (Escort/Astra/Sierra/Cavalier). That's why I love the current Swift Sport -reasonably powerful for its light weight, full of feel for the driver and yet built to modern standards.
You could argue that all the people buying safer cars are making it more dangerous for the people who drive old cars. Look at the volvo vs modis crash, if i was in my Volvo, with similar era cars driving about i would just plough through a crash and only have couple of dents to show for it. Now all these safe cars are taking all the energy and thowing it back at my volvo, therefore making it unsafe for me in my volvo.
I just dont feel safe on the road with all these weaponised cars to hit me.
Ban safe cars!!!
Being serious for a minute.. i have only driven an ax forte i think it was? was fun like all these small light cars tend to be. I can agree that it felt like it was made of thinned out soup tins, even relatively new. so god knows what it would be like when half rusted and a bit loose.
With technology these days, im sure they could make something safe enough and light at the same time.
What is safe enough though? is subjective i suppose. I personally feel safe in most cars of most ages aslong as they are in good mechanical condition. Its the modern golf with the good brakes and cocky driver sitting 6inches off my back bumper thats dangerous and would worry me. Haha
I just dont feel safe on the road with all these weaponised cars to hit me.
Ban safe cars!!!
Being serious for a minute.. i have only driven an ax forte i think it was? was fun like all these small light cars tend to be. I can agree that it felt like it was made of thinned out soup tins, even relatively new. so god knows what it would be like when half rusted and a bit loose.
With technology these days, im sure they could make something safe enough and light at the same time.
What is safe enough though? is subjective i suppose. I personally feel safe in most cars of most ages aslong as they are in good mechanical condition. Its the modern golf with the good brakes and cocky driver sitting 6inches off my back bumper thats dangerous and would worry me. Haha
Put an immaculate 1988 AXGT up as part of the exchange on an Octavia VRS. I had more fun in the AX than the VRS or my wife's Saxo VTS. Sure, a lot of rose tinted spectacled memories, but what a great car. Fragile - yes; if you're a hamfisted oaf. Unreliable; mine never missed a beat, but that seems lucky. Ditch-finding lift off oversteer; drive it from the front, then. Unsafe; relative to my current Aprilia, guess which one I'd rather have a crash on/in! C1 GT/VTS would be a hoot. I think the automotive world is poorer for these cars. Make 'em again, sell 'em cheap and have every one of us sign a waiver that we are responsible for our own actions. They'd have to be very cheap, though. And I wouldn't be happy about putting my wife or kids in it. Oh bugger....
rustyabarth said:
Whiters said:
F344 TBV & J771 STF. No longer out there but much missed.
Must have come from the same place as mine did J771 STF - J629 STFYours looks great in red. Always liked the GTi in that hue.
mooseracer said:
I've owned 2 GTs, a GTI and finally one with a turbocharged VTS engine in it.
As far as I know I never died in any of them, despite their poor crash performance.
I had a GTi and loved it. I was much less worried about the structural integrity than the unbelievably poor brakes. The previous owner also wasn't a fan of the brakes as he'd manage to lightly crunched it into the back of another car, so I had to replace the bonnet, wing, front panels etc.As far as I know I never died in any of them, despite their poor crash performance.
Before:
After: (though with a missing bumper clip)
I had one in 1990, coming from a 1.1 Fiesta LX it was quite a surprise the first time I booted it, I thought it was going to take off. I still remember that experience well after almost 25years so it certainly left its mark. A drunk driver ploughed into me one night and I survived it, the car was a bit of a mess though.
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