Who decides ??

[delboy735]

So, in light of my son receiving yet another ticket for speeding...69mph on a dual carriageway !! ( transit connect ),I have a question. Who, or what govern..mental.. department decides on the classification of road ?
I mean, who decides "dual carriageway" or "motorway"?
Also, who, or again which governmental body decided that a van smaller than most chelsea tractors should be designated a LGV ?
I know that all PH readers know the speed "limits" of all vehicles, but who is ( or are) the deciders of these things ?
For the record my son got a bit annoyed, then just shrugged his shoulders and got on with the rest of his day....this is just me asking the question.

[Eighteeteewhy]

Connects are a pain. I've tried to find out if they're a car derived van with no luck.

[SS2.]

The speed limits for vehicles of certain classes is provided by the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1988.

[haggishunter]

Eighteeteewhy said:

Connects are a pain. I've tried to find out if they're a car derived van with no luck.

They aren't. The only ones that counts as cars are things like a corsa and a fiesta, basically a car with metal rear windows. Its bloody hard to cut through all the crap

[interloper]

SS2. said:

The speed limits for vehicles of certain classes is provided by the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1988.

That would appear to be out of date, for instance it has 7,5 tonne vehicles allowed up to 70mph on Motorways, that hasn't been the case for a while.

[SS2.]

interloper said:

That would appear to be out of date, for instance it has 7,5 tonne vehicles allowed up to 70mph on Motorways, that hasn't been the case for a while.

Isn't that only if it's articulated or towing ?

[xRIEx]

delboy735 said:

I mean, who decides "dual carriageway" or "motorway"?

I can't answer as to who decides, but it's fairly obvious which is which: blue signs relate to motorways, and they will have a sign indicating when the motorway starts and another when it ends; green signs relate to major (usually A) roads. It's a dual carriageway if it has green signs and a physical barrier in between the carriageways (central reservation).

[Snollygoster]

Maybe I'm being stupid here, but isn't a Ford Connect the little Fiesta style one? Surely if that's under 2 tonnes it carries the same speed limit as a normal car on all roads.

Edit: Just looking on the Gov website, this is what it says:

dvla said:

‘Car-derived’ vans weigh no more than 2 tonnes when loaded and are based on car designs, such as a Ford Fiesta van or Vauxhall Astra van. Check your log book under ‘body type’ if you’re not sure.

Check the V5. In regards to who decides, Government. Not much you can do really. If they did this to the French they would go on strike. We just accept what we are told.

Edited by Snollygoster on Wednesday 29th October 23:36

[interloper]

SS2. said:

interloper said:

That would appear to be out of date, for instance it has 7,5 tonne vehicles allowed up to 70mph on Motorways, that hasn't been the case for a while.

Isn't that only if it's articulated or towing ?

Anything new and over 3.5 ton comes with a 56 mph speed limiter and a tacho. In the last few years the rules have changed but they may not apply to older vehicles! I work in truck and van and have some knowledge but don't have the full detail to hand.

[Nigel Worc's]

The Connect (it's Transit Connect) is a Caddy sized van.

In some cases, unlike the Caddy, it is below 2 tons max laden weight, but still fails the car derived van bit.

I am fairly sure you need to meet both bits, below 2 tons max weight, AND car derived.

It is madness, as my V5C actually says car derived, but I know my van isn't.

[SS2.]

interloper said:

Anything new and over 3.5 ton comes with a 56 mph speed limiter and a tacho. In the last few years the rules have changed but they may not apply to older vehicles! I work in truck and van and have some knowledge but don't have the full detail to hand.

Newer vehicles may require to have limiters fitted, but that doesn't mean that the speed limits have changed.

You work in the goods vehicle business, you say ?

[SS2.]

Snollygoster said:

Maybe I'm being stupid here, but isn't a Ford Connect the little Fiesta style one?

Short answer, no - nor is it car derived.

Snollygoster said:

Check the V5.

The classification on the V5 is largely irrelevant - it's either a goods vehicle constructed or adapted from a derivative of a passenger vehicle and having a MLW not exceeding 2 tonnes, or it isn't.

[crossy67]

I think you're thinking of the Courier.

I got done for 56 in a 60 in an Expert, annoying thing was I saw the scamera and slowed down.

Got to agree most 4x4's are over this stupid limit even without 5 hefty passengers and a boot of luggage but are allowed to go as fast as any other vehicle.

[xRIEx]

Nigel Worc's said:

It is madness, as my V5C actually says car derived, but I know my van isn't.

Could it be something to do with the type approval process the manufacturer puts the vehicle through? E.g. it goes the M1 route instead of N1?

[cologne2792]

I ran a few Escort vans and always drove them at NSL believing them to be car derived - they were however not.
I can't find the relevant info but to be car derived meant it had to share brakes and suspension with that of the car on which it was based which only the estate car version with filled in rear windows did.
Was never nicked though probably because of very few cameras then.

[Swanny87]

I think the law in this area needs a massive shakeup. Give me a moment as this will lead on to what I'm getting at. I have a st car, reason being is that I don't have my own property with it's own drive/garage and the people parked next to me don't seem to care about how close they park (apartment block, shared parking). I hired a Transit van last year when moving and it felt more planted and refined at *cough* 70 *cough* than my Punto does. Yet it is illegal to travel the same speed in the van as I do in the Punto but the Transit (even with a full load) is more than capable at travelling safely at these speeds, utter stupidity.

Edited by Swanny87 on Thursday 30th October 12:14

[Nigel Worc's]

xRIEx said:

Nigel Worc's said:

It is madness, as my V5C actually says car derived, but I know my van isn't.

Could it be something to do with the type approval process the manufacturer puts the vehicle through? E.g. it goes the M1 route instead of N1?

I'm not sure, there is a 2014 reg one at a company near me, and that says panel van, but mine definitely says car derived.

I think, but cannot promise anyone, that the scamerati issue their tickets depending on what the computer says, hence I get away with doing car speed limits, whilst many friends don't.

If it isn't that, then so far I've just been lucky.

[V8forweekends]

cologne2792 said:

I ran a few Escort vans and always drove them at NSL believing them to be car derived - they were however not.
I can't find the relevant info but to be car derived meant it had to share brakes and suspension with that of the car on which it was based which only the estate car version with filled in rear windows did.
Was never nicked though probably because of very few cameras then.

My 1972 Escort van did :-)

[AnimalBob]

Swanny87 said:

the Transit (even with a full load) is more than capable at travelling safely at these speeds.

Edited by Swanny87 on Thursday 30th October 12:14

It maybe capable of travelling at those speeds but I imagine if you needed to perform an emergency stop in your fully loaded transit doing 70 it would travel significantly more distance than your punto before stopping.

[delboy735]

xRIEx said:

delboy735 said:

I mean, who decides "dual carriageway" or "motorway"?

I can't answer as to who decides, but it's fairly obvious which is which: blue signs relate to motorways, and they will have a sign indicating when the motorway starts and another when it ends; green signs relate to major (usually A) roads. It's a dual carriageway if it has green signs and a physical barrier in between the carriageways (central reservation).

I am aware of that, the question was really with regards to some roads that start as "A roads....dual carriageway" then change to "Motorway", and then revert back...ie A74/M74.....A1/A1M.
Did the planners have a brain fart and think...sod it, we'll split it to confuse every bugger.
Anyway, "vans.....specifically small vans" why 60 on a dual carriageway, then 70 on a Motorway and then 50 on a main road non-dual ?? What does it achieve besides money in the gov coffers ??
do they really become less dangerous the faster they get on a big road ??