Discussion
Article on to night's Watchdog on high end ( BMW/AUDI /LR ) ,possibly other makes with /without key in ignition systems. After the main dealers were forced to give out details on programming new keys ( most likely due to the main dealers propensity to make a "profit" on a replacement key), anyone with a cheapo diagnostic kit ( to my understanding of program) could read key data from car CPU and transfer the data to a blank key. But the makers are at 6's and 7's over which BMW are affected. Al that is required is that t leaf gains entry to car. The car makers are in a panic to cure the problem, which IMHO was caused by greed by the dealers. But a lot of owners have not been contacted,so it might be worthwhile, to lokk at BBC player and see if you'r P & J should have been recalled.
The issue has nothing to do with the technology used to secure a car, as what ever that maybe, from actual physical keys to modern "electronic" means, thieves will continue to steel cars becuase it is profitable and the penalty for doing so is so small. Until we have a proper tough law on theft, banging up the offenders (or better still chopping off a few body parts each time they offend) these people will continue to make easy money out of others........
(if you made a truly theft proof system, they would just mug you/ hold you up for your car instead.)
(if you made a truly theft proof system, they would just mug you/ hold you up for your car instead.)
They explained on watchdog that it was EU law that any car built after 2007 had to have its ECU open to allow fair competition so that the consumer could get their car diagnosed/serviced/repaired in any garage.
Keys and their immobilesers are all programmed via the ECU. Try and start a car with an immobiliser chip that isn't programmed to that ECU and it won't start. Reprogram the key/ECU and match them up and volia it will start.
I'm guessing that ODB ports have some kind of handshake system which is vunreble to being hacked, hence the reprogramming of these blank keys.
I say key but unlike my key, for my car and millions of other cars, I have a "blade" which is cut to match my ignition barrel. I have no idea what the f
k was wrong with that, a normal key, now we see a lot of cars with a hole in the dash into which you insert the whole fob into.
Without the EU interfering we would have less vunreble systems but then we would be at ransom to the dealers come repair time.
Keys and their immobilesers are all programmed via the ECU. Try and start a car with an immobiliser chip that isn't programmed to that ECU and it won't start. Reprogram the key/ECU and match them up and volia it will start.
I'm guessing that ODB ports have some kind of handshake system which is vunreble to being hacked, hence the reprogramming of these blank keys.
I say key but unlike my key, for my car and millions of other cars, I have a "blade" which is cut to match my ignition barrel. I have no idea what the f
k was wrong with that, a normal key, now we see a lot of cars with a hole in the dash into which you insert the whole fob into.Without the EU interfering we would have less vunreble systems but then we would be at ransom to the dealers come repair time.
anarki said:
I say key but unlike my key, for my car and millions of other cars, I have a "blade" which is cut to match my ignition barrel. I have no idea what the fk was wrong with that, a normal key, now we see a lot of cars with a hole in the dash into which you insert the whole fob into.
Just saying, there used to be a time where you had to write a cheque (although some still do - similar to using a key) to make a purchase. Now days you can just touch your phone on a wireless pay machine. Just one example which sprung to mind.k was wrong with that, a normal key, now we see a lot of cars with a hole in the dash into which you insert the whole fob into.Times change and technology advances for no more a reason than convenience, and the fact we can.
mattshiz said:
Why does the car give out information like this through the OBD port? Especially when there is no key in the ignition. Surely for sensitive data a separate port under the bonnet or in the boot would be a better idea.
Essentially if the genuine owner loses all the keys there needs to be *some* way for new ones to be added assuming you have just the car and nothing else. The OBD port is the standard (and I think only) way to communicate with a car's ECU, to enable interoperability. A separate port could added but it would be just fudging the overall problem really. Thieves would figure out how to open the boots/bonnets easily, or get to the OBD wires easily from outside the car.The equipment the thieves have will just replicate what the official equipment does, I doubt it's anything very secure.
Edited by Gareth79 on Friday 31st October 01:12
The problem is manufacturer have neglected security. They managed to crack vehicle security in the 90s, so much so that even now, any late 90s car is virtually unstealable without the keys, but designers have had the urge to fiddle with this model without sufficient regard for ensuring security remains highest priority.
Keyless start is an incredibly pointless invention, as in most applications where they have not implemented passive keyless entry and go.
Passive keyless entry and go is where the fob is detected by the car automatically and you can walk up get in and start the car without ever taking the fob out your bag or pocket. This is a genuine convenience invention, not one i'd personally consider a selling point or worth paying as an extra for, but to some people it might.
But the really stupid thing is most of these keyless start systems aren't passive. You still use your fob to unlock/lock the car, and you still put the fob in slot on the dashboard to start the car, there is no real advantage of this system to anyone, yet it has massively compromised the security of millions of vehicles.
Keyless start is an incredibly pointless invention, as in most applications where they have not implemented passive keyless entry and go.
Passive keyless entry and go is where the fob is detected by the car automatically and you can walk up get in and start the car without ever taking the fob out your bag or pocket. This is a genuine convenience invention, not one i'd personally consider a selling point or worth paying as an extra for, but to some people it might.
But the really stupid thing is most of these keyless start systems aren't passive. You still use your fob to unlock/lock the car, and you still put the fob in slot on the dashboard to start the car, there is no real advantage of this system to anyone, yet it has massively compromised the security of millions of vehicles.
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