RE: Shed Of The Week: Mazda RX-8

[Escy]

TREMAiNE said:

Towards rotary enthusiasts.
I've said it before and I'll say it again as much as I love my RX-8 and as handy as the rear doors and seats are, as well as the big boot, I don't think they should have bothered with that. It should have been a 2 seater and lighter. Fuel economy would have been slightly better, less non-petrolheads would have bought them and they'd have a better reputation.

People don't look back at the RX-7 and say "what a joke" like they do with the RX-8 despite them having very similar engines - largely because it had a much higher price tag (priced to compete with Porsches of the same era rather than being a budget, entry level sports car) and was only really bought by motoring enthusiasts. Yet, despite the fact the RX-8's Renesis engine improved on the biggest flaw of the RX-7's 13b engine (apex seals) it all ended the way it did, with lots of terribly maintained cars largely down to how it was sold.


If you're genuinely interested, see my post here and check out the last 2 paragraphs where I look at specifically where the RX-8 went wrong and also what would be the best application for the next production rotary:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I'm sure plenty of RX7 owners did say what a joke when they had to dig deep for a re-build. I feel that the main difference between the 2 is the performance. The RX7 is fast and very tuneable, you can forgive it's shocking reliability and MPG when it's fast and good looking. If the RX8 had been a 2 door coupe, it'd have been inferior to the RX7 in every way.

[J4CKO]

TREMAiNE said:

J4CKO said:

TREMAiNE said:

St John Smythe said:

Escy said:

The market says otherwise, hence there are so many available for peanuts. People don't want them. Even cars with a rebuilt engine can be had for sub 2k.

I respect Mazda for continuing with the wankel but it's flogging a dead horse.

This, you can't argue with facts. Was the 350z a similar price when new?

I believe they were around the same price (give or take £1,000). RX-8 sold better.

The 350Z only has 2 seats, the RX8 has 4, at the time the RX8 didnt have the reputation for poor fuel economy and poor reliability it does now, so of course it sold better.

Entry level now for a 350Z is five grand, they arent totally immune from engine problems like any car, but it is a rare exception rather than par for the course.

I think an RX8 like this would be a good buy only for someone with the skills /space to DIY an engine rebuild, I suspect that with the number like this for sale, may be even able to get one cheaper.

The RX-8 would have been known for poor fuel economy at that time - even Mazda only quote 20-25mpg on the high power version. Though being as practical as it is with 4 seats, big boot and rear doors obviously helped it sell so well.

An 8 grand RX-8 R3 is going to do you a lot better than an 8 grand 350Z too. Buy one of the later ones and you're going to have fewer issues long term - plus the R3's are rising in value has the older ones are dropping more and more.

Not sure what you mean by "Do you a lot better", I bought a 350Z a year and a bit ago and it is still seems worth what I paid for it, or a little bit more, I think spending more than a grand or two on an RX8 is a much bigger gamble than the same amount of a 350Z

[Gary C]

J4CKO said:

TREMAiNE said:

J4CKO said:

TREMAiNE said:

St John Smythe said:

Escy said:

The market says otherwise, hence there are so many available for peanuts. People don't want them. Even cars with a rebuilt engine can be had for sub 2k.

I respect Mazda for continuing with the wankel but it's flogging a dead horse.

This, you can't argue with facts. Was the 350z a similar price when new?

I believe they were around the same price (give or take £1,000). RX-8 sold better.

The 350Z only has 2 seats, the RX8 has 4, at the time the RX8 didnt have the reputation for poor fuel economy and poor reliability it does now, so of course it sold better.

Entry level now for a 350Z is five grand, they arent totally immune from engine problems like any car, but it is a rare exception rather than par for the course.

I think an RX8 like this would be a good buy only for someone with the skills /space to DIY an engine rebuild, I suspect that with the number like this for sale, may be even able to get one cheaper.

The RX-8 would have been known for poor fuel economy at that time - even Mazda only quote 20-25mpg on the high power version. Though being as practical as it is with 4 seats, big boot and rear doors obviously helped it sell so well.

An 8 grand RX-8 R3 is going to do you a lot better than an 8 grand 350Z too. Buy one of the later ones and you're going to have fewer issues long term - plus the R3's are rising in value has the older ones are dropping more and more.

Not sure what you mean by "Do you a lot better", I bought a 350Z a year and a bit ago and it is still seems worth what I paid for it, or a little bit more, I think spending more than a grand or two on an RX8 is a much bigger gamble than the same amount of a 350Z

I bought an 8k rx8 rather than a 15k z as it seemed to be so much car for so little, but the worry and the fuel costs were too much. If I had bought a z, I would probably have it now. Would I have been poorer with the z ? Don't know but the rx8 didn't half drink fuel. Probably spent 2.5k on fuel in 12 months.

[TREMAiNE]

J4CKO said:

TREMAiNE said:

J4CKO said:

TREMAiNE said:

St John Smythe said:

Escy said:

The market says otherwise, hence there are so many available for peanuts. People don't want them. Even cars with a rebuilt engine can be had for sub 2k.

I respect Mazda for continuing with the wankel but it's flogging a dead horse.

This, you can't argue with facts. Was the 350z a similar price when new?

I believe they were around the same price (give or take £1,000). RX-8 sold better.

The 350Z only has 2 seats, the RX8 has 4, at the time the RX8 didnt have the reputation for poor fuel economy and poor reliability it does now, so of course it sold better.

Entry level now for a 350Z is five grand, they arent totally immune from engine problems like any car, but it is a rare exception rather than par for the course.

I think an RX8 like this would be a good buy only for someone with the skills /space to DIY an engine rebuild, I suspect that with the number like this for sale, may be even able to get one cheaper.

The RX-8 would have been known for poor fuel economy at that time - even Mazda only quote 20-25mpg on the high power version. Though being as practical as it is with 4 seats, big boot and rear doors obviously helped it sell so well.

An 8 grand RX-8 R3 is going to do you a lot better than an 8 grand 350Z too. Buy one of the later ones and you're going to have fewer issues long term - plus the R3's are rising in value has the older ones are dropping more and more.

Not sure what you mean by "Do you a lot better", I bought a 350Z a year and a bit ago and it is still seems worth what I paid for it, or a little bit more, I think spending more than a grand or two on an RX8 is a much bigger gamble than the same amount of a 350Z

What I meant is due to the stronger residuals of the Z, an 8k rx8 would likely be newer with lower mileage and potentially better condition than a z of the same price. Plus the consideration that the R3 rx8 has risen in value over the last 12 months. Last year the cream of the crop was 9k but it's now not uncommon to see plenty around that price with the lower milers listing for up to 13k

[japaneseskoda]

Its a thousand quid You may get it for £800. Cheap as chips. Why the worry over it needing this rebuild etc or that set of parts? You insure it and drive it. If it breaks at the price of a cheap to mid priced mountain bike then you just scrap it and buy another

[R400TVR]

I've always liked these and always liked the rotary engine. But I could never bring myself to buy one.
Engine replacement is an option but you do lose the character of the car. You could get an MX-6 V6, turbo it to 300hp quite easily and stick it in which will keep it all Mazda, but then you have no resale value apart from a novelty car. After conversion prices are taken into account, a low mileage M3 is easily available.

[stag14]

As said previously, if you have time on your hands then barter for the best price you can get it for and thrash to destruction (by the sounds of it this wont be far off) once broke break it for parts as im sure its worth more that way.....

Personally i cant think of anything worse as they look like the biggest pile of Japanese rubbish on the road.... but thats my personal opinion..... spend a little more a and buy a quality sports car, alebeit a little older....

[soad]

japaneseskoda said:

Its a thousand quid You may get it for £800. Cheap as chips. Why the worry over it needing this rebuild etc or that set of parts? You insure it and drive it. If it breaks at the price of a cheap to mid priced mountain bike then you just scrap it and buy another

We have a brave volunteer, it seems.

[IanMorewood]

It's already broken, ok so you can still drive it but you know compression isn't right, it could have 20k more before it won't start at all or it may be terminal within the next 100 miles. Only way I can see these being bangernomics is buy two, fix the rotor on one whilst driving the other and then fix number two before selling either or both.

[Fastdruid]

St John Smythe said:

Escy said:

The market says otherwise, hence there are so many available for peanuts. People don't want them. Even cars with a rebuilt engine can be had for sub 2k.

I respect Mazda for continuing with the wankel but it's flogging a dead horse.

This, you can't argue with facts. Was the 350z a similar price when new?

The RX-8 sold more cars than the 350Z, 370Z, S2000, BRZ & GT86 combined.

The low prices in comparison are purely because there are so many out there and there are few people who can stomach the sub 20mpg and top end VED so demand is low.

Lots of "broken" cars for sale as there is no point in spending ~2-3k fixing the engine on a car worth 1k-2k but plenty of people will spend the same or more on a car worth 9k....

Give it a few years for a whole load to die off and prices will go up.

[405dogvan]

underdosed said:

405dogvan said:

I've driven a few of these - we did work for a Mazda dealer and they'd always be in need of some touch-up etc. - but they always made a nuisance of themselves in that

a - their battery is tiny and dies if left just a day-or-2

Really? Owned mine for 2 years as a weekend car and never had a problem starting, regularly sat for a week or more without being used.

EVERY one we got would die in the time it took to strip/fix/paint/rebuild it (typically 1-3 days - tops would be a week) - some would have been sat at the dealership beforehand perhaps but some were customer cars and they ALL reached 'won't turn over' state in their time with us.

Note: some cars were moved daily in-out of the shop so that wouldn't help I guess but it got so we'd park them somewhere they didn't block anything/didn't need to move them until due to return to the dealer wherein the smart delivery drivers would usually be MIA

The weird thing was that they'd neither charge overnight using the charger (which worked on every other car we tried) nor would they jump from our jumppacks (again, working on everything else we used them on)

Perhaps we were in the RX-8 Bermuda Triangle ;0

[J4CKO]

Fastdruid said:

St John Smythe said:

Escy said:

The market says otherwise, hence there are so many available for peanuts. People don't want them. Even cars with a rebuilt engine can be had for sub 2k.

I respect Mazda for continuing with the wankel but it's flogging a dead horse.

This, you can't argue with facts. Was the 350z a similar price when new?

The RX-8 sold more cars than the 350Z, 370Z, S2000, BRZ & GT86 combined.

The low prices in comparison are purely because there are so many out there and there are few people who can stomach the sub 20mpg and top end VED so demand is low.

Lots of "broken" cars for sale as there is no point in spending ~2-3k fixing the engine on a car worth 1k-2k but plenty of people will spend the same or more on a car worth 9k....

Give it a few years for a whole load to die off and prices will go up.

Normals bought them due to being a bit funky and having 4 seats, then they realised that they were hopeless on fuel and tended to have weird issues, a few enthusiastic and knowledgeable individuals will keep a few going but they will never be worth much, how much is an NSU RO80 worth, or any variant of the RX7, even the FD isn't mega money, and that was properly good looking and properly fast.

[405dogvan]

TREMAiNE said:

The big problem is owners failing to understand the engine. Its a high maintenance engine. If you're going to own a rotary car you need to learn about the engine and how to properly care for it - the vast majority of problems with the RX-8 was the owners didn't take care of them and now they're dying.

Hello - I come from reality with a wake-up call ;0

This is the world of people who don't even know where their bonnet-release is - 90% of motorists never lift their bonnet, check their tyres/lights etc. - some even ignore warning lights until something catches fire or stops moving entirely...

The RX-8 was a big sales success and that means it sold to those people - it's not those people's fault that it's under-engineered and utterly unsuitable for what it appears to be intended for?

It's not like people loaded them with lead/gold bars or towed rocks with them - mostly people got in them, started them, drove them and that was enough to fk em ;0

There's a guy I know - his family have owned Mazdas going back as far as they can remember - they have a 1989 MX-6 still in daily use - their last Mazda was an RX-8 - they now have new Audis...

[anonymous-user]

Fastdruid said:

St John Smythe said:

Escy said:

The market says otherwise, hence there are so many available for peanuts. People don't want them. Even cars with a rebuilt engine can be had for sub 2k.

I respect Mazda for continuing with the wankel but it's flogging a dead horse.

This, you can't argue with facts. Was the 350z a similar price when new?

The RX-8 sold more cars than the 350Z, 370Z, S2000, BRZ & GT86 combined.

The low prices in comparison are purely because there are so many out there and there are few people who can stomach the sub 20mpg and top end VED so demand is low.

Lots of "broken" cars for sale as there is no point in spending ~2-3k fixing the engine on a car worth 1k-2k but plenty of people will spend the same or more on a car worth 9k....

Give it a few years for a whole load to die off and prices will go up.

I honestly don't think they are special enough for prices to rise. They certainly aren't anywhere near the same league as the RX7.

[otolith]

They are in Jag XJS V12 land at the moment - the kind of people who have that kind of budget mostly can't afford the running costs.

[Gary C]

J4CKO said:

TREMAiNE said:

J4CKO said:

TREMAiNE said:

St John Smythe said:

Escy said:

The market says otherwise, hence there are so many available for peanuts. People don't want them. Even cars with a rebuilt engine can be had for sub 2k.

I respect Mazda for continuing with the wankel but it's flogging a dead horse.

This, you can't argue with facts. Was the 350z a similar price when new?

I believe they were around the same price (give or take £1,000). RX-8 sold better.

The 350Z only has 2 seats, the RX8 has 4, at the time the RX8 didnt have the reputation for poor fuel economy and poor reliability it does now, so of course it sold better.

Entry level now for a 350Z is five grand, they arent totally immune from engine problems like any car, but it is a rare exception rather than par for the course.

I think an RX8 like this would be a good buy only for someone with the skills /space to DIY an engine rebuild, I suspect that with the number like this for sale, may be even able to get one cheaper.

The RX-8 would have been known for poor fuel economy at that time - even Mazda only quote 20-25mpg on the high power version. Though being as practical as it is with 4 seats, big boot and rear doors obviously helped it sell so well.

An 8 grand RX-8 R3 is going to do you a lot better than an 8 grand 350Z too. Buy one of the later ones and you're going to have fewer issues long term - plus the R3's are rising in value has the older ones are dropping more and more.

Not sure what you mean by "Do you a lot better", I bought a 350Z a year and a bit ago and it is still seems worth what I paid for it, or a little bit more, I think spending more than a grand or two on an RX8 is a much bigger gamble than the same amount of a 350Z

I bought an 8k rx8 rather than a 15k z as it seemed to be so much car for so little, but the worry and the fuel costs were too much. If I had bought a z, I would probably have it now. Would I have been poorer with the z ? Don't know but the rx8 didn't half drink fuel. Probably spent 2.5k on fuel in 12 months.

[otolith]

The Mrs gets two or three miles per gallon more from the Z than we used to get from the Mazda.

[marshall100]

matty6660 said:

I bought an RX8 for £700 with the hot start problem. Mint condition in every other way.

Bought a £90 uprated 2kw starter motor off ebay and fit it in 15 minutes. Cured the problem completely. Simple and cheap. There's no need to let your car go for £1000 because of the "hot start" problem.

I know it's not a long term fix but it will give you many many thousands of miles perfect starting without needing to bother with the engine rebuild lark.




LOL @ these idiots selling their car wayyy too cheap because they think the hot start problem costs loads of £££ to fix haha

Edited by matty6660 on Saturday 1st November 14:54

Edited by matty6660 on Saturday 1st November 14:56

I like this post. I'm off to ebay...

[colonel c]

Bought one 3 months ago. So far so good. Perhaps I might change my mind if things go badly.
Right now though. Miles per gallon bad.
But smiles per mile worth every penny. .

[The Flying Ox]

I'd buy this shed in a heartbeat if it wasn't so far away.

I know there's the whole issue of who Mazda aimed the RX8 at and who bought them, and how less than 1% had a clue how to properly maintain them... Yes, it ended up being a marketing disaster for them, but look at it this way: you've got a 1.3l engine that manages 9000rpm and 231bhp. How long, exactly, do you think a 1.3l 4-pot would last if asked to provide the same numbers?

FWIW, I have previous with the rotary engine. I ran an almost-400bhp RX7 as a daily driver for a while, and it was truly momentous every time I got in it. Never had any engine issues, mpg wasn't all that bad (15-20mpg), and it drank about a litre of oil every 3000 miles. 10w40 mineral oil, at £4 a litre. Hardly something to bring up as a downside, unless you're the type who needs a trip to the main dealer to change your air filter.

My sis bought a R3 RX8 on the back of driving my RX7. That was a tremendous car, great alternative for young family, and as has been mentioned above had the extra oil injectors for better tip protection. I think she got close to £9k when she traded it in for her current car, a Subaru BRZ.

I haven't yet told her I preferred the RX8.

Edited by The Flying Ox on Sunday 2nd November 02:10