RE: Shed Of The Week: Mazda RX-8
Discussion
The Flying Ox said:
but look at it this way: you've got a 1.3l engine that manages 9000rpm and 231bhp. How long, exactly, do you think a 1.3l 4-pot would last if asked to provide the same numbers?
This is such poor rationale, and so often repeated, that it's not worth going into again.ensignia said:
This is such poor rationale, and so often repeated, that it's not worth going into again.
So you replied to my comment stating that you couldn't be bothered to reply. I think we can all agree the conversation has been enriched by your involvement.What exactly is so poor about the rationale? Assuming that you actually understand what the RX8 is and isn't supposed to be. Why is it fine to compare and contrast the perceived weaknesses of the 13b vs conventional engines, but highlight its advantages over conventional engines and suddenly the rationale is flawed?
Edited by The Flying Ox on Sunday 2nd November 06:57
I bought an 06 plate RX8 PZ back in July with 50k on the clock and full Mazda history. No hot or cold start issues and no other problems.
The price £2.5k
Yes the VED is £500, yes the fuel consumption is bad (avg 20mpg) but the oil consumption is low 0.5l in 3000 miles.
I got the car after competing and outgrowing a Mk1 Mx5 (needed more comfort and power. I sprint the car in a few events and always come 1st or 2nd, competitors are S2000, Civic type R, Z3 etc. The car certainly surprises people.
Again it does so on track, i did a couple of evening sessions at brands and managed a resectable 60sec lap time which could be improved on using better tyres. (currently scrubbing out some cheapies that were on it when purchased)
For me its a toy and a back up family car if ever the Golf needs repair. 4 seats and room to get the shopping in you can't really compare.
I've mentioned before my mate has a S2 Elise, well he only last weekend went out an brought a PZ based on the fact for the money you can't get ANYTHING like it. If the engine goes pop i have a very good rotary specialist near me that will rebuild the engine and provide warranty for what i perceive to be good value.
From watching the prices and given the fact its a PZ with limited numbers around, i can see values rising in the near future.
For any haters or doubters there is a Mazda trackway at brands at the beginning of Dec.
The price £2.5k
Yes the VED is £500, yes the fuel consumption is bad (avg 20mpg) but the oil consumption is low 0.5l in 3000 miles.
I got the car after competing and outgrowing a Mk1 Mx5 (needed more comfort and power. I sprint the car in a few events and always come 1st or 2nd, competitors are S2000, Civic type R, Z3 etc. The car certainly surprises people.
Again it does so on track, i did a couple of evening sessions at brands and managed a resectable 60sec lap time which could be improved on using better tyres. (currently scrubbing out some cheapies that were on it when purchased)
For me its a toy and a back up family car if ever the Golf needs repair. 4 seats and room to get the shopping in you can't really compare.
I've mentioned before my mate has a S2 Elise, well he only last weekend went out an brought a PZ based on the fact for the money you can't get ANYTHING like it. If the engine goes pop i have a very good rotary specialist near me that will rebuild the engine and provide warranty for what i perceive to be good value.
From watching the prices and given the fact its a PZ with limited numbers around, i can see values rising in the near future.
For any haters or doubters there is a Mazda trackway at brands at the beginning of Dec.
405dogvan said:
EVERY one we got would die in the time it took to strip/fix/paint/rebuild it (typically 1-3 days - tops would be a week) - some would have been sat at the dealership beforehand perhaps but some state were customer cars and they ALL reached 'won't turn over' in their time with us.
Note: some cars were moved daily in-out of the shop so that wouldn't help I guess but it got so we'd park them somewhere they didn't block anything/didn't need to move them until due to return to the dealer wherein the smart delivery drivers would usually be MIA
Perhaps we were in the RX-8 Bermuda Triangle ;0
No, you were not IN the Bermuda Triangle - you WERE it! Note: some cars were moved daily in-out of the shop so that wouldn't help I guess but it got so we'd park them somewhere they didn't block anything/didn't need to move them until due to return to the dealer wherein the smart delivery drivers would usually be MIA
Perhaps we were in the RX-8 Bermuda Triangle ;0
The RX HAD to be run up to temperature and not just started, moved, switch off, or it wouldn't start - that's the way of them.
You also said, in an earlier post, that you drove them like a granny - another BIG mistake.
The harder you drove them, the more they liked it.
Pussy foot = knackered - thrashing = running well.
I loved driving them (I worked for a dealer back in the day) and always came back with a large grin on my face after driving one.
If you turn it on, move it a few feet and don't follow the procedure in the manual for shutting off a cold engine there is a risk that it will flood when you try to start it again some time later. The European spec cars are at higher risk because they run richer when cold to meet EU catalyst warm up requirements. There was a service bulletin ECU update on early cars which made them less susceptible.
The Flying Ox said:
So you replied to my comment stating that you couldn't be bothered to reply. I think we can all agree the conversation has been enriched by your involvement.
What exactly is so poor about the rationale? Assuming that you actually understand what the RX8 is and isn't supposed to be. Why is it fine to compare and contrast the perceived weaknesses of the 13b vs conventional engines, but highlight its advantages over conventional engines and suddenly the rationale is flawed?
The entire professional engine international community viewed it as a 2.6l (rightly so) when it was put up for engine of the year award. In every class test it has been involved in as an engine only piece it has been put against competitors that are in the 2.5l+ category.What exactly is so poor about the rationale? Assuming that you actually understand what the RX8 is and isn't supposed to be. Why is it fine to compare and contrast the perceived weaknesses of the 13b vs conventional engines, but highlight its advantages over conventional engines and suddenly the rationale is flawed?
Just because the swept volume is 1.3l, it does not perform in the same manner as a comparable reciprocating 4-stroke! The fact it has a spark event on a rotor every single revolution makes it more like a two stroke, which by all measures means it should be categorised as having twice its rated capacity when compared to 4 strokes, as all 2 strokes have since their inception.
It's a very simple concept to grasp, and yet this discussions circulates every single time a rotary engine is mentioned.
I've carried a spare litre of oil in every car I have ever owned. I presume the person who wrote the article just calls the AA if the oil light comes on at the side of the motorway!
The fact that I carry a spare oil, does't mean that car has many issues that mean the prospective purchaser should walk away.
In fact my old company VW Golf came with a can in the oil in the boot. The second Golf I had did burn quite a bit of oil and the mileage was quite low considering how high the 1.9 PD engines can go. Nothing really wrong with it. Its just how it was.
The fact that I carry a spare oil, does't mean that car has many issues that mean the prospective purchaser should walk away.
In fact my old company VW Golf came with a can in the oil in the boot. The second Golf I had did burn quite a bit of oil and the mileage was quite low considering how high the 1.9 PD engines can go. Nothing really wrong with it. Its just how it was.
Usual rubbish written about the rotary engine. Issues are down to owners not reading the manual that comes with the car.
The rotary uses no more oil than any other High performance engine. Porsche flat 6, BMW M's Nissan RB26, all used the same amount of oil during my ownership. The issue is the Rx8 was available to company car drivers who generally cared less about checking oil levels, or making sure the engine was warm before thrashing.
I had a brand new engine fitted to my RX8 for £4k, and you wouldn't get any other new engine from the list mentioned for that. Why did I need a new engine because the engine was carboned up due to poor ownership.
I have since had mine for 5 years competed in hill climbs and sprints for 3 years and use it as a daily driver. No issues hot or cold and if I changed to another engine it would just be a boring piston lump which would weigh more and ruin the handling. Then to get it to rev, I would need to spend more money, use just as much oil, and then need shorter service intervals.
So get off the rotary isn't a good engine, stop acting like the bloke down the pub, and actually research before writing such regurgitated drivel.
I am currently having to rebuild a Porsche 2.7 flat 6, because a missed gear caused an over rev, and bent the exhaust valves. So much for German reliability, and the issues with these engines is well documented, and the numerous upgrades needed to make them reliable.
The rotary uses no more oil than any other High performance engine. Porsche flat 6, BMW M's Nissan RB26, all used the same amount of oil during my ownership. The issue is the Rx8 was available to company car drivers who generally cared less about checking oil levels, or making sure the engine was warm before thrashing.
I had a brand new engine fitted to my RX8 for £4k, and you wouldn't get any other new engine from the list mentioned for that. Why did I need a new engine because the engine was carboned up due to poor ownership.
I have since had mine for 5 years competed in hill climbs and sprints for 3 years and use it as a daily driver. No issues hot or cold and if I changed to another engine it would just be a boring piston lump which would weigh more and ruin the handling. Then to get it to rev, I would need to spend more money, use just as much oil, and then need shorter service intervals.
So get off the rotary isn't a good engine, stop acting like the bloke down the pub, and actually research before writing such regurgitated drivel.
I am currently having to rebuild a Porsche 2.7 flat 6, because a missed gear caused an over rev, and bent the exhaust valves. So much for German reliability, and the issues with these engines is well documented, and the numerous upgrades needed to make them reliable.
LMA37 said:
Usual rubbish written about the rotary engine. Issues are down to owners not reading the manual that comes with the car.
The rotary uses no more oil than any other High performance engine. Porsche flat 6, BMW M's Nissan RB26, all used the same amount of oil during my ownership. The issue is the Rx8 was available to company car drivers who generally cared less about checking oil levels, or making sure the engine was warm before thrashing.
I had a brand new engine fitted to my RX8 for £4k, and you wouldn't get any other new engine from the list mentioned for that. Why did I need a new engine because the engine was carboned up due to poor ownership.
I have since had mine for 5 years competed in hill climbs and sprints for 3 years and use it as a daily driver. No issues hot or cold and if I changed to another engine it would just be a boring piston lump which would weigh more and ruin the handling. Then to get it to rev, I would need to spend more money, use just as much oil, and then need shorter service intervals.
So get off the rotary isn't a good engine, stop acting like the bloke down the pub, and actually research before writing such regurgitated drivel.
I am currently having to rebuild a Porsche 2.7 flat 6, because a missed gear caused an over rev, and bent the exhaust valves. So much for German reliability, and the issues with these engines is well documented, and the numerous upgrades needed to make them reliable.
What a load of drivel. The rotary uses no more oil than any other High performance engine. Porsche flat 6, BMW M's Nissan RB26, all used the same amount of oil during my ownership. The issue is the Rx8 was available to company car drivers who generally cared less about checking oil levels, or making sure the engine was warm before thrashing.
I had a brand new engine fitted to my RX8 for £4k, and you wouldn't get any other new engine from the list mentioned for that. Why did I need a new engine because the engine was carboned up due to poor ownership.
I have since had mine for 5 years competed in hill climbs and sprints for 3 years and use it as a daily driver. No issues hot or cold and if I changed to another engine it would just be a boring piston lump which would weigh more and ruin the handling. Then to get it to rev, I would need to spend more money, use just as much oil, and then need shorter service intervals.
So get off the rotary isn't a good engine, stop acting like the bloke down the pub, and actually research before writing such regurgitated drivel.
I am currently having to rebuild a Porsche 2.7 flat 6, because a missed gear caused an over rev, and bent the exhaust valves. So much for German reliability, and the issues with these engines is well documented, and the numerous upgrades needed to make them reliable.
Oil useage, although high, isn't the main problem of the wankel, I don't know why you're focusing on that minor criticism so much. Deal with the MPG:BHP ratio or the lack of torque.
Has it ever occured to you that the price of the RX-8 engine is cheap because they are selling so many of them all the time?! They are also cheaper to manufacture. It's generally accepted that at 50k, it's due a re-build. That's backed up by the amount of low mileage cars advertised with engine issues.
The fact that Porsche engine (also crap engines) needs a rebuild is because of operating error, why would you even mention that?
I have to love the blind defence of them. It's not Mazda's fault, it's everyone else's...
Escy said:
I have to love the blind defence of them. It's not Mazda's fault, it's everyone else's...
This.The RX8OC had the most deluded, myopic bunch of morons I've ever encountered on a car forum. Every car specific forum is usually full of fanboys, but the amount of hysteric RX-8 defenders - despite mountains of evidence stacked against them - on that place literally made using the forum unbearable.
The RX-8 could have been a great car, but it is deeply flawed because of the engine; the disadvantages are too great to make it a viable option for anything other than a weekend track toy.
Yep, a brilliant but flawed car. To be honest, more interesting to the PHer than an all-around-competent but uninteresting alternative.
The interesting thing was how much more of a success it was than Mazda thought - only planned to make a few, and mostly for the rotary fans in Japan, but it was a worldwide sales success.
The interesting thing was how much more of a success it was than Mazda thought - only planned to make a few, and mostly for the rotary fans in Japan, but it was a worldwide sales success.
have just looked on ebay there is a 2006 RX8 with a rebuilt engine 5k ago ,car has done 60k its at £1,480
with 5 hours left (on ebay auction) that would be a better buy ,obviously does not fit into shed money
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-MAZDA-RX8-192-COUPE...
with 5 hours left (on ebay auction) that would be a better buy ,obviously does not fit into shed money
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-MAZDA-RX8-192-COUPE...
Edited by leedsutd1 on Sunday 2nd November 19:30
Has anyone mentioned the main bearing failures.
The oil has to lubricate the main bearings and oil the combustion chamber so it has to satisfy both requirements. Aero versions have a separate oil supply for the metering pumps allowing the sump to be filled with better oil. This is a popular conversion and might help this.
It's a fun engine and suits the car, my poor 15mpg was down to coil packs, but even with new ones it struggled to make 20mpg on the commute. As a daily it was too much, as a fun car it could not compete with my carrera.
The oil has to lubricate the main bearings and oil the combustion chamber so it has to satisfy both requirements. Aero versions have a separate oil supply for the metering pumps allowing the sump to be filled with better oil. This is a popular conversion and might help this.
It's a fun engine and suits the car, my poor 15mpg was down to coil packs, but even with new ones it struggled to make 20mpg on the commute. As a daily it was too much, as a fun car it could not compete with my carrera.
Had my RX8 for about five years and it's been a good (second) car. The MPG makes it a pretty ridiculous choice for hum drum daily driving. I don't see the point in driving around at 40 mph in heavy traffic doing 22 mpg. As a second car it does make sense and is great for a blast in the evening when the roads are quiet and is fun and fast on track. To be honest you could say the same about most performance cars; they just don't make sense as daily drivers.
As for this shed, well it is broken isn't it? The poor starting is due to low compression and faster starter motors are just a bodge job. It will leave you stranded. Haggle for it, buy it at 800 quid and get the engine rebuilt for 2.5k. For less than 3.5k you will have a low mileage chassis and a dependable engine. Keep it for four years and 30k and you will have had your moneys worth.
As for this shed, well it is broken isn't it? The poor starting is due to low compression and faster starter motors are just a bodge job. It will leave you stranded. Haggle for it, buy it at 800 quid and get the engine rebuilt for 2.5k. For less than 3.5k you will have a low mileage chassis and a dependable engine. Keep it for four years and 30k and you will have had your moneys worth.
leedsutd1 said:
have just looked on ebay there is a 2006 RX8 with a rebuilt engine 5k ago ,car has done 60k its at £1,480
with 5 hours left (on ebay auction) that would be a better buy ,obviously does not fit into shed money
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-MAZDA-RX8-192-COUPE...
But then there's plenty on ebay that have the same issues and are half a bag of sand...with 5 hours left (on ebay auction) that would be a better buy ,obviously does not fit into shed money
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-MAZDA-RX8-192-COUPE...
Edited by leedsutd1 on Sunday 2nd November 19:30
velocgee said:
Not sure a rex with a suspect engine warrants a shed article.
Car is something of an unsung great and has some depth of engineering to it. defo a machine designed for racers.; the suspension is the most adjustable I have come across - fully camber and caster (s2000 similar?); Very non-instrusive abs and dsc/tc; simple to reset steering angle yourself; and a carbon fibre propshaft!
Had the car aligned to fast road spec and handling went from very good to sublime. Hawk hps pads created awesome brakes with std discs.
Ran mine for nr 6yrs and up to 55k from 14k and only issues were a semi - seized rear damper, diff (wasnt convinced there was an issue). Never flooded it (shutdown procedure) and never hot starting problem (had my fill of those from the old pug 205gti days haha..)
forgot to add that Mazda did provide a free upgrade to the starter motor, though i always started with the clutch depressed (this is also stated in the manual).Car is something of an unsung great and has some depth of engineering to it. defo a machine designed for racers.; the suspension is the most adjustable I have come across - fully camber and caster (s2000 similar?); Very non-instrusive abs and dsc/tc; simple to reset steering angle yourself; and a carbon fibre propshaft!
Had the car aligned to fast road spec and handling went from very good to sublime. Hawk hps pads created awesome brakes with std discs.
Ran mine for nr 6yrs and up to 55k from 14k and only issues were a semi - seized rear damper, diff (wasnt convinced there was an issue). Never flooded it (shutdown procedure) and never hot starting problem (had my fill of those from the old pug 205gti days haha..)
oh, and the paint was poor - very weak and more akin to old cellulose (sic?). i think when my car was produced the japanese paint shop had just experienced a major fire so, being in short supply of paint, used what they had very, very sparingly....
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