Driving ban for towing a wheelchair.
Discussion
405dogvan said:
2 year ban is utterly daft for a victimless offence which took place away from public roads (if you think Tesco's CarPark is a public road, the Police, your Insurers and Tesco themselves would like to disagree with you)
"A car park is not a road - Clarke v Kato [1998] 1 WLR 1647. However, it is a public place within S192 and so otherwise included."http://www.1itl.com/news/284/
"It is important to note that references to ‘road’ therefore generally include footpaths, bridleways and cycle tracks, and many roadways and driveways on private land (including many car parks). In most cases, the law will apply to them and there may be additional rules for particular paths or ways. Some serious driving offences, including drink-driving offences, also apply to all public places, for example public car parks."
https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/the-r...
It may not be a road, but the law can still be applied in some cases.
7mike said:
Leins said:
Just to play an advocate of the Devil for a moment, but what if she had inadvertently left something hanging out of the boot of her car, like a coat, handbag strap or, in this case, a towel, and someone in a wheelchair grabbed hold of it while she was driving around looking for a space? He looks to be quite close to the back of the car, which has a high rear window line, so it might not be possible to tell
Should bus and truck drivers be banned when a skateboarder grabs hold of something while they're about to drive off
Yes, she was unaware that a bloke in a wheel chair had grabbed something hanging out of the back of her car. Only; did you read this bit...Should bus and truck drivers be banned when a skateboarder grabs hold of something while they're about to drive off
"After several minutes, he climbed out of the chair as astonished shoppers looked on.
He then got into the car and Adams, a call centre worker, from Whitburn, South Tyneside, drove off."
king for being cretinsHowever, I'm still intrigued by the legality of the prosecution. If she had claimed she knew nothing about it, what could they do. Ban him from future use of wheelchairs?
Edited by Leins on Friday 31st October 23:13
Ahonen said:
Yet she speaks so highly of you.
The alternative view is that it was a bit of harmless messing around in an empty carpark at midnight, where no one was hurt and a couple of people probably had a bit of a giggle before going home.
Good grief, we all used to take advantage of snow covered car parks and perform endless handbrake turns and powerslides when I was a lad - seems like we'd lose our licences doing that these days. A sense of perspective is badly needed here.
Based on your opinion, you would have sacked the majority of the world's motorsport stars before their careers even started. The majority of them have done some pretty stupid things over the years.
A couple of others haven't (hullo to Laura and her boyfriend [girlfriend?]) but you've misinterpreted.The alternative view is that it was a bit of harmless messing around in an empty carpark at midnight, where no one was hurt and a couple of people probably had a bit of a giggle before going home.
Good grief, we all used to take advantage of snow covered car parks and perform endless handbrake turns and powerslides when I was a lad - seems like we'd lose our licences doing that these days. A sense of perspective is badly needed here.
Based on your opinion, you would have sacked the majority of the world's motorsport stars before their careers even started. The majority of them have done some pretty stupid things over the years.
I'm not upset at what she did (I've conceded it looks like fun and have gone so far as to suggest a way in which more fun could be had), I'm upset at her decision to do it somewhere where she would, very obviously, get caught.
It ceases to be about having fun (which, again, I encourage) and begins to be about a staggering inability to make sensible decisions. That trait in her personality will make her a danger on the roads and a menace generally.
She's the girl who sees you approaching a roundabout from her right, and pulls out anyway. She's the girl who blocks a yellow box junction. She's the girl who does 30, past a primary school, in the snow. She's very clearly just crap at making decisions and it's those people who are a menace.
Given half a chance, I'd probably have a go at towing a mate about in a wheelchair, but, because I'm not bloody stupid, I'd do it in the disused overflow carpark of my local waterpark. No CCTV, no onlookers, no nosey neighbours to call the police, nothing.
To use your story about snow covered car parks. Yes, you'd lose your licence, but only if you were caught. Whether you're caught or not depends 1% on luck and 99% on your decision as to when and where to do it. If you do it in the car park of your local police station, you're going to jail. If you do it somewhere where you won't get caught (which, these days, is more likely than not to be the car park of your local police station), you won't. The difference isn't your behaviour during the event, it's your decision making before it.
Simon.
steve954 said:
Never knew you could get done for this sort of stuff in a private car park! If so then there is a lot of people round my way that need to watch out!
I have in my youth been towed by all kinds of machines on all kind of things I reckon if I did it all again now I would easy get 10 years!!
'Private Property' can at various times be a 'public place ' and/or a 'road' ... and a shop car park can be one or both when it comes to motoring issues... I have in my youth been towed by all kinds of machines on all kind of things I reckon if I did it all again now I would easy get 10 years!!
Wasn't she zooming up and down a busy car park, where families with children would be trying to cross? Then driven off leaving the wheelchair in the middle of the 'road'?
Hopefully a portion of her sentence was for being an utter, utter chav. I think the sentence is totally appropriate but I just wish we saw more of it. At least this is one sentence that won't be boasted about on Facebook.
Isn't it great to see though, how even the most vacuous of bints can finance suvs to fill our streets with.
Hopefully a portion of her sentence was for being an utter, utter chav. I think the sentence is totally appropriate but I just wish we saw more of it. At least this is one sentence that won't be boasted about on Facebook.
Isn't it great to see though, how even the most vacuous of bints can finance suvs to fill our streets with.
mph1977 said:
'Private Property' can at various times be a 'public place ' and/or a 'road' ... and a shop car park can be one or both when it comes to motoring issues...
Exactly this. We've had issues recently on part built building sites. When the police got involved they confirmed that although the roads are not adopted and still owned by the developer, as soon as the public are allowed access all road policing laws come into effect.405dogvan said:
2 year ban is utterly daft for a victimless offence which took place away from public roads (if you think Tesco's CarPark is a public road, the Police, your Insurers and Tesco themselves would like to disagree with you)
In fact, I'd ask if the law even extends to cover that location - I've had insurers tell me that the rules of the road don't apply in supermarket car parks and every one has signs reminding you they're private property - worst case, you get removed for trespassing (how they deal with chavs hanging around in cars or not)
In theory she could have done this without a driving licence and not been breaking the law at all?
She appears to have admitted 'dangerous driving' tho - that's massively stupid. The entire crux of a 'dangerous driving' offence is proving that the person committing it "knew their actions to be dangerous". Unless you admit that, it's almost impossible to prove - if she'd said "fk off, we were having a laugh" she'd have gotten, at worst, a telling-off.
I know people who've towed allsorts of st with their cars - hell, Top Gear towed a sofa last year, I supposed it's their fault?
I'm all for more enforcement of road laws but this is just silly.
Mind you - mackems...
HoweverIn fact, I'd ask if the law even extends to cover that location - I've had insurers tell me that the rules of the road don't apply in supermarket car parks and every one has signs reminding you they're private property - worst case, you get removed for trespassing (how they deal with chavs hanging around in cars or not)
In theory she could have done this without a driving licence and not been breaking the law at all?
She appears to have admitted 'dangerous driving' tho - that's massively stupid. The entire crux of a 'dangerous driving' offence is proving that the person committing it "knew their actions to be dangerous". Unless you admit that, it's almost impossible to prove - if she'd said "f
k off, we were having a laugh" she'd have gotten, at worst, a telling-off.I know people who've towed allsorts of s
t with their cars - hell, Top Gear towed a sofa last year, I supposed it's their fault?I'm all for more enforcement of road laws but this is just silly.
Mind you - mackems...
Edited by 405dogvan on Friday 31st October 22:44
Edited by 405dogvan on Friday 31st October 22:57
by admitting the offence she has got a substantial reduction in her sentence
So we can assume that if she had pled not guilty then she would be in jail
In the world has gone nuts
I wonder what the take is on my current situation.
Months ago the GF at the time wanted to drive my car, one night I conceded and we headed to the most suitable place I could think of. We went to a huge Tesco car park at 11.30pm on a Tuesday. As you can imagine, it was empty.
I showed her how I wanted to driver (down one isle, u turn and up the next)then we switched seats. For about 1min 30secs she drove up and down, no car came in the car park or came near us the entire time.
To my horror a Police car entered the car park and pulled up near the door. I instructed her to pull into a bay and we switched seats. I drove away and the Police car followed and pulled me.
It transpired that they'd noticed the car from the main road. I explained what we were doing, given the circumstances I thought I'd pass the attitude test and they'd say fair enough, have a nice night.
The Police agreed that the driving was at a sensible speed but told me that they had to report it nevertheless.
She rung me in floods of tears yesterday, apparently she's being prosecuted for driving without insurance, I'll be prosecuted for Aiding & Abetting driving without insurance. Its a minimum of 6 points for each offense and as shes within her 2years her license will be revoked.
A little harsh or just deserts? I'm taking it on the chin either way
Months ago the GF at the time wanted to drive my car, one night I conceded and we headed to the most suitable place I could think of. We went to a huge Tesco car park at 11.30pm on a Tuesday. As you can imagine, it was empty.
I showed her how I wanted to driver (down one isle, u turn and up the next)then we switched seats. For about 1min 30secs she drove up and down, no car came in the car park or came near us the entire time.
To my horror a Police car entered the car park and pulled up near the door. I instructed her to pull into a bay and we switched seats. I drove away and the Police car followed and pulled me.
It transpired that they'd noticed the car from the main road. I explained what we were doing, given the circumstances I thought I'd pass the attitude test and they'd say fair enough, have a nice night.
The Police agreed that the driving was at a sensible speed but told me that they had to report it nevertheless.
She rung me in floods of tears yesterday, apparently she's being prosecuted for driving without insurance, I'll be prosecuted for Aiding & Abetting driving without insurance. Its a minimum of 6 points for each offense and as shes within her 2years her license will be revoked.
A little harsh or just deserts? I'm taking it on the chin either way
StottyEvo said:
I wonder what the take is on my current situation.
Months ago the GF at the time wanted to drive my car, one night I conceded and we headed to the most suitable place I could think of. We went to a huge Tesco car park at 11.30pm on a Tuesday. As you can imagine, it was empty.
I showed her how I wanted to driver (down one isle, u turn and up the next)then we switched seats. For about 1min 30secs she drove up and down, no car came in the car park or came near us the entire time.
To my horror a Police car entered the car park and pulled up near the door. I instructed her to pull into a bay and we switched seats. I drove away and the Police car followed and pulled me.
It transpired that they'd noticed the car from the main road. I explained what we were doing, given the circumstances I thought I'd pass the attitude test and they'd say fair enough, have a nice night.
The Police agreed that the driving was at a sensible speed but told me that they had to report it nevertheless.
She rung me in floods of tears yesterday, apparently she's being prosecuted for driving without insurance, I'll be prosecuted for Aiding & Abetting driving without insurance. Its a minimum of 6 points for each offense and as shes within her 2years her license will be revoked.
A little harsh or just deserts? I'm taking it on the chin either way
Harsh, way too harsh.Months ago the GF at the time wanted to drive my car, one night I conceded and we headed to the most suitable place I could think of. We went to a huge Tesco car park at 11.30pm on a Tuesday. As you can imagine, it was empty.
I showed her how I wanted to driver (down one isle, u turn and up the next)then we switched seats. For about 1min 30secs she drove up and down, no car came in the car park or came near us the entire time.
To my horror a Police car entered the car park and pulled up near the door. I instructed her to pull into a bay and we switched seats. I drove away and the Police car followed and pulled me.
It transpired that they'd noticed the car from the main road. I explained what we were doing, given the circumstances I thought I'd pass the attitude test and they'd say fair enough, have a nice night.
The Police agreed that the driving was at a sensible speed but told me that they had to report it nevertheless.
She rung me in floods of tears yesterday, apparently she's being prosecuted for driving without insurance, I'll be prosecuted for Aiding & Abetting driving without insurance. Its a minimum of 6 points for each offense and as shes within her 2years her license will be revoked.
A little harsh or just deserts? I'm taking it on the chin either way
When I was younger and supermarkets didn't open on a Sunday, there were always people down at the empty car park getting a bit of practice in, usually with their parents, I did it.
There seems to be no common sense decisions or thinking nowadays, no "oh it is harmless let them get on with it" you can't seem to fart without being prosecuted.
Now your girlfriend will be screwed for years when it comes to insurance, she will need to re take her test too, utterly ridiculous.
She is driving without insurance and you have permitted that to occur. It's all well and good prior to anything occurring, even in an empty car park. You can bet Tesco wouldn't want you there or give you permission if they knew. Your insurers wouldn't be happy, either.
On the other hand, it doesn't strike me as a proportional outcome if it's as you describe. People receive cautions (which are getting binned) and other out-of-court disposals for all sorts of crimes.
I can't see why a bking or being a little more flexible with the outcome couldn't have occurred.
On the other hand, it doesn't strike me as a proportional outcome if it's as you describe. People receive cautions (which are getting binned) and other out-of-court disposals for all sorts of crimes.
I can't see why a b
king or being a little more flexible with the outcome couldn't have occurred. HTP99 said:
Harsh, way too harsh.
When I was younger and supermarkets didn't open on a Sunday, there were always people down at the empty car park getting a bit of practice in, usually with their parents, I did it.
There seems to be no common sense decisions or thinking nowadays, no "oh it is harmless let them get on with it" you can't seem to fart without being prosecuted.
Now your girlfriend will be screwed for years when it comes to insurance, she will need to re take her test too, utterly ridiculous.
see my previous post which BFG terrano has quoted and agreed with . When I was younger and supermarkets didn't open on a Sunday, there were always people down at the empty car park getting a bit of practice in, usually with their parents, I did it.
There seems to be no common sense decisions or thinking nowadays, no "oh it is harmless let them get on with it" you can't seem to fart without being prosecuted.
Now your girlfriend will be screwed for years when it comes to insurance, she will need to re take her test too, utterly ridiculous.
it's only 'private land' for motoring purposes when you are somewhere which the public don;t have free access ( which is why you can get done for the above, yet you can go banger racing and do banger racing things * on the track* any t
ttery in the pits / paddock/ car park ...In the past i've ended up with the Police coming out to collisions on Bangerracing tracks, usually when drivers have required fire brigade assistance with extrication ( as not all banger tracks have Jaws of their own ) or where there isn;t a Paramedic or Doctor on site ( as small banger racing tracks are only required to have tech -level ambulances)for fluids / anbalgesia or Helimed have been activated ...
generally Plod turn up establish it;s on track and not life threatening and then clear off once things are sorted ...
mph1977 said:
see my previous post which BFG terrano has quoted and agreed with .
it's only 'private land' for motoring purposes when you are somewhere which the public don;t have free access ( which is why you can get done for the above, yet you can go banger racing and do banger racing things * on the track* any tttery in the pits / paddock/ car park ...
In the past i've ended up with the Police coming out to collisions on Bangerracing tracks, usually when drivers have required fire brigade assistance with extrication ( as not all banger tracks have Jaws of their own ) or where there isn;t a Paramedic or Doctor on site ( as small banger racing tracks are only required to have tech -level ambulances)for fluids / anbalgesia or Helimed have been activated ...
generally Plod turn up establish it;s on track and not life threatening and then clear off once things are sorted ...
For how much longer?it's only 'private land' for motoring purposes when you are somewhere which the public don;t have free access ( which is why you can get done for the above, yet you can go banger racing and do banger racing things * on the track* any t
ttery in the pits / paddock/ car park ...In the past i've ended up with the Police coming out to collisions on Bangerracing tracks, usually when drivers have required fire brigade assistance with extrication ( as not all banger tracks have Jaws of their own ) or where there isn;t a Paramedic or Doctor on site ( as small banger racing tracks are only required to have tech -level ambulances)for fluids / anbalgesia or Helimed have been activated ...
generally Plod turn up establish it;s on track and not life threatening and then clear off once things are sorted ...
I can see some foo gooders going for a complete ban on motorsport
mph1977 said:
see my previous post which BFG terrano has quoted and agreed with .
it's only 'private land' for motoring purposes when you are somewhere which the public don;t have free access ( which is why you can get done for the above, yet you can go banger racing and do banger racing things * on the track* any tttery in the pits / paddock/ car park ...
In the past i've ended up with the Police coming out to collisions on Bangerracing tracks, usually when drivers have required fire brigade assistance with extrication ( as not all banger tracks have Jaws of their own ) or where there isn;t a Paramedic or Doctor on site ( as small banger racing tracks are only required to have tech -level ambulances)for fluids / anbalgesia or Helimed have been activated ...
generally Plod turn up establish it;s on track and not life threatening and then clear off once things are sorted ...
Agreed.it's only 'private land' for motoring purposes when you are somewhere which the public don;t have free access ( which is why you can get done for the above, yet you can go banger racing and do banger racing things * on the track* any t
ttery in the pits / paddock/ car park ...In the past i've ended up with the Police coming out to collisions on Bangerracing tracks, usually when drivers have required fire brigade assistance with extrication ( as not all banger tracks have Jaws of their own ) or where there isn;t a Paramedic or Doctor on site ( as small banger racing tracks are only required to have tech -level ambulances)for fluids / anbalgesia or Helimed have been activated ...
generally Plod turn up establish it;s on track and not life threatening and then clear off once things are sorted ...
Not going into details, but 25 years ago I fell foul of the law, the offence I committed was in a field, but because the public had access to it, I was prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
If the public have access, the you okay the law of the land, no matter what arse covering s
t your insurance comes out with.By the way, who died? unless the story is lacking something, it would be funny, if it weren't so severe.
StottyEvo said:
I wonder what the take is on my current situation.
Months ago the GF at the time wanted to drive my car, one night I conceded and we headed to the most suitable place I could think of. We went to a huge Tesco car park at 11.30pm on a Tuesday. As you can imagine, it was empty.
I showed her how I wanted to driver (down one isle, u turn and up the next)then we switched seats. For about 1min 30secs she drove up and down, no car came in the car park or came near us the entire time.
To my horror a Police car entered the car park and pulled up near the door. I instructed her to pull into a bay and we switched seats. I drove away and the Police car followed and pulled me.
It transpired that they'd noticed the car from the main road. I explained what we were doing, given the circumstances I thought I'd pass the attitude test and they'd say fair enough, have a nice night.
The Police agreed that the driving was at a sensible speed but told me that they had to report it nevertheless.
She rung me in floods of tears yesterday, apparently she's being prosecuted for driving without insurance, I'll be prosecuted for Aiding & Abetting driving without insurance. Its a minimum of 6 points for each offense and as shes within her 2years her license will be revoked.
A little harsh or just deserts? I'm taking it on the chin either way
Utterly ridiculous outcome lacking in any common sense IMO. A "one size fits all" sort of policy that is fast becoming the ruination of societyMonths ago the GF at the time wanted to drive my car, one night I conceded and we headed to the most suitable place I could think of. We went to a huge Tesco car park at 11.30pm on a Tuesday. As you can imagine, it was empty.
I showed her how I wanted to driver (down one isle, u turn and up the next)then we switched seats. For about 1min 30secs she drove up and down, no car came in the car park or came near us the entire time.
To my horror a Police car entered the car park and pulled up near the door. I instructed her to pull into a bay and we switched seats. I drove away and the Police car followed and pulled me.
It transpired that they'd noticed the car from the main road. I explained what we were doing, given the circumstances I thought I'd pass the attitude test and they'd say fair enough, have a nice night.
The Police agreed that the driving was at a sensible speed but told me that they had to report it nevertheless.
She rung me in floods of tears yesterday, apparently she's being prosecuted for driving without insurance, I'll be prosecuted for Aiding & Abetting driving without insurance. Its a minimum of 6 points for each offense and as shes within her 2years her license will be revoked.
A little harsh or just deserts? I'm taking it on the chin either way
Leins said:
StottyEvo said:
I wonder what the take is on my current situation.
Months ago the GF at the time wanted to drive my car, one night I conceded and we headed to the most suitable place I could think of. We went to a huge Tesco car park at 11.30pm on a Tuesday. As you can imagine, it was empty.
I showed her how I wanted to driver (down one isle, u turn and up the next)then we switched seats. For about 1min 30secs she drove up and down, no car came in the car park or came near us the entire time.
To my horror a Police car entered the car park and pulled up near the door. I instructed her to pull into a bay and we switched seats. I drove away and the Police car followed and pulled me.
It transpired that they'd noticed the car from the main road. I explained what we were doing, given the circumstances I thought I'd pass the attitude test and they'd say fair enough, have a nice night.
The Police agreed that the driving was at a sensible speed but told me that they had to report it nevertheless.
She rung me in floods of tears yesterday, apparently she's being prosecuted for driving without insurance, I'll be prosecuted for Aiding & Abetting driving without insurance. Its a minimum of 6 points for each offense and as shes within her 2years her license will be revoked.
A little harsh or just deserts? I'm taking it on the chin either way
Utterly ridiculous outcome lacking in any common sense IMO. A "one size fits all" sort of policy that is fast becoming the ruination of societyMonths ago the GF at the time wanted to drive my car, one night I conceded and we headed to the most suitable place I could think of. We went to a huge Tesco car park at 11.30pm on a Tuesday. As you can imagine, it was empty.
I showed her how I wanted to driver (down one isle, u turn and up the next)then we switched seats. For about 1min 30secs she drove up and down, no car came in the car park or came near us the entire time.
To my horror a Police car entered the car park and pulled up near the door. I instructed her to pull into a bay and we switched seats. I drove away and the Police car followed and pulled me.
It transpired that they'd noticed the car from the main road. I explained what we were doing, given the circumstances I thought I'd pass the attitude test and they'd say fair enough, have a nice night.
The Police agreed that the driving was at a sensible speed but told me that they had to report it nevertheless.
She rung me in floods of tears yesterday, apparently she's being prosecuted for driving without insurance, I'll be prosecuted for Aiding & Abetting driving without insurance. Its a minimum of 6 points for each offense and as shes within her 2years her license will be revoked.
A little harsh or just deserts? I'm taking it on the chin either way
StottyEvo said:
The Police agreed that the driving was at a sensible speed but told me that they had to report it nevertheless.
She rung me in floods of tears yesterday, apparently she's being prosecuted for driving without insurance, I'll be prosecuted for Aiding & Abetting driving without insurance. Its a minimum of 6 points for each offense and as shes within her 2years her license will be revoked.
A little harsh or just deserts? I'm taking it on the chin either way
She rung me in floods of tears yesterday, apparently she's being prosecuted for driving without insurance, I'll be prosecuted for Aiding & Abetting driving without insurance. Its a minimum of 6 points for each offense and as shes within her 2years her license will be revoked.
A little harsh or just deserts? I'm taking it on the chin either way
Easy conviction (and better stats) > common sense.
StuntmanMike said:
Agreed.
Not going into details, but 25 years ago I fell foul of the law, the offence I committed was in a field, but because the public had access to it, I was prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
If the public have access, the you okay the law of the land, no matter what arse covering st your insurance comes out with.
By the way, who died? unless the story is lacking something, it would be funny, if it weren't so severe.
Define public accessNot going into details, but 25 years ago I fell foul of the law, the offence I committed was in a field, but because the public had access to it, I was prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
If the public have access, the you okay the law of the land, no matter what arse covering s
t your insurance comes out with.By the way, who died? unless the story is lacking something, it would be funny, if it weren't so severe.
I have an open gateway into my house
Should i be reported for driving without insurance as i move an old car around which isn't insured
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