Driving ban for towing a wheelchair.

[sealtt]

StottyEvo said:

To reinforce my story, an exert from the Police statement



She had a provisional license at the time of the offense, so I'm also being charged for letting her drive without the correct license. As I'm over 21 with 3years driving experience I'm not sure if this is correct? It also mentions not displaying L plates so I'm being done for that too As well as the Aiding&Abetting driving without insurance.

I feel like a right criminal! Suppose I am really

I think you are so unlucky with this, too bad

I didn't realise Tesco carparks were governed as regular roads, that said the CCTV would scare me off anyway.

[numtumfutunch]

sealtt said:

I think you are so unlucky with this, too bad

I didn't realise Tesco carparks were governed as regular roads, that said the CCTV would scare me off anyway.

Zoiks

I usually internet shop but when its been snowing nip to Sainos in person for some car park donuts
Suspect I may have been lucky - especially as Ive been on 6 points till recently

[nipsips]

Danmit. There goes my plan for snow and a big inflatable swim ring, a tow rope, and a mate with a car!

[mph1977]

car parks provided for the public to use are " public places " for the purposes of most legislation and therefore a lot of Road Traffic Law, the Public Order Act etc etc applies,.


want to tt around in the snow better hope your boss has a sense of fun as realistically you need to locked behind work car park / yard gates ....

[Mr2Mike]

StottyEvo said:

She had a provisional license at the time of the offense, so I'm also being charged for letting her drive without the correct license. As I'm over 21 with 3years driving experience I'm not sure if this is correct?

Doesn't sound correct. They seem to be firing all guns in your direction don't they?

[Nigel Worc's]

Mr2Mike said:

StottyEvo said:

She had a provisional license at the time of the offense, so I'm also being charged for letting her drive without the correct license. As I'm over 21 with 3years driving experience I'm not sure if this is correct?

Doesn't sound correct. They seem to be firing all guns in your direction don't they?

The Police can be quite interesting regarding car parks.

At work ours is capable of being shut off and locked with big gates.

If we have a car dumped or parked there, as we do from time to time, it is magically a civil matter that they will not attend, deal with, or in any way acknowledge we exist.

Earlier in the year I was spotted riding my motorcycle whilst not wearing a crash helmet, around the same car park ......... suddenly they are interested and could find their way in.

Strange lot, coppers !

[StottyEvo]

Mr2Mike said:

StottyEvo said:

She had a provisional license at the time of the offense, so I'm also being charged for letting her drive without the correct license. As I'm over 21 with 3years driving experience I'm not sure if this is correct?

Doesn't sound correct. They seem to be firing all guns in your direction don't they?

That's what I thought. It says "permitted... otherwise than in accordance with a licence authorising her to drive a motor vehicle of that class
Contrary to section 87(2) of the Road Traffic Act 1988..."

I'm at Crown Court on the 25th for it so I suppose I'll have to see then!

[nipsips]

StottyEvo said:

That's what I thought. It says "permitted... otherwise than in accordance with a licence authorising her to drive a motor vehicle of that class
Contrary to section 87(2) of the Road Traffic Act 1988..."

I'm at Crown Court on the 25th for it so I suppose I'll have to see then!

I suppose in theory you are supposed to have L plates? But I'd have thought there was a seperate charge regarding these such as failure to display etc? Maybe someone more knowledgeable could shed some light on that?

[thelawnet]

nipsips said:

I suppose in theory you are supposed to have L plates? But I'd have thought there was a seperate charge regarding these such as failure to display etc? Maybe someone more knowledgeable could shed some light on that?

Under section 16 of The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999,

"A provisional licence of any class is granted subject to the conditions prescribed in relation to a licence of that class in the following paragraphs."

which are:

(a) being supervised by an appropriately qualified person
(b) with L plates
(c) must not be towing a trailer

Under S87 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, you are required to have a licence to 'drive on a road'

Road is defined in the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 "any length of highway or of any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes"

I think you would need to argue that you were not driving on a 'road' - the drive way that leads through the car park probably would be a road, but you may be able to successfully argue that the part of the car park you were in was not one.

[StottyEvo]

thelawnet said:

nipsips said:

I suppose in theory you are supposed to have L plates? But I'd have thought there was a seperate charge regarding these such as failure to display etc? Maybe someone more knowledgeable could shed some light on that?

Under section 16 of The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999,

"A provisional licence of any class is granted subject to the conditions prescribed in relation to a licence of that class in the following paragraphs."

which are:

(a) being supervised by an appropriately qualified person
(b) with L plates
(c) must not be towing a trailer

Under S87 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, you are required to have a licence to 'drive on a road'

Road is defined in the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 "any length of highway or of any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes"

I think you would need to argue that you were not driving on a 'road' - the drive way that leads through the car park probably would be a road, but you may be able to successfully argue that the part of the car park you were in was not one.

The car park counts as it has public access. Does anyone know what the standard punishment is for this? With 2 penalties I'll probably have to sell the car due to the insurance premium increase.

[mph1977]

thelawnet said:

<snip>

Under S87 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, you are required to have a licence to 'drive on a road'

Road is defined in the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 "any length of highway or of any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes"

I think you would need to argue that you were not driving on a 'road' - the drive way that leads through the car park probably would be a road, but you may be able to successfully argue that the part of the car park you were in was not one.

That is bordering on the FOTL.

[thelawnet]

mph1977 said:

That is bordering on the FOTL.

What?

[mph1977]

thelawnet said:

mph1977 said:

That is bordering on the FOTL.

What?

the level of wibble and woo required ot truely take that suggestion seriously...

Trying to suggest that a surfaced area which the public have free access to and regularly drive up and down in their cars is not something which can be considered a road , especially given the well established case law that says Road traffic legislation applies in such locations.

[thelawnet]

mph1977 said:

the level of wibble and woo required ot truely take that suggestion seriously...

Trying to suggest that a surfaced area which the public have free access to and regularly drive up and down in their cars is not something which can be considered a road , especially given the well established case law that says Road traffic legislation applies in such locations.

Wibble level: House of Lords:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/tuesday-l...

Also there are two different categories of applicability. The other than in accordance with a licence offence applies 'on a road' under s.87, while the insurance offence under s143 applies 'on a road or other public place'.

So bang to rights on the insurance, not so much on the licence offence.

Edited by thelawnet on Sunday 9th November 22:03

[fatboy69]

Just to show the disparity in driving bans consider this:-

Our friend here gets a two year ban for towing a mate around a supermarket car park late a night. Stupid maybe but hardly likely to kill anyone.

Today footage has been released of a truck driver who exited the M6 at the wrong junction.

What did he do?

He went around a traffic island the wrong way, drove the wrong way the motorway slip road & then proceeded to do a u-turn back onto the carriageway he had just left....

tt.

His driving ban?

Just 18 months!!!!!

fking ridiculous.

[xRIEx]

fatboy69 said:

Just to show the disparity in driving bans consider this:-

Our friend here gets a two year ban for towing a mate around a supermarket car park late a night. Stupid maybe but hardly likely to kill anyone.

Today footage has been released of a truck driver who exited the M6 at the wrong junction.

What did he do?

He went around a traffic island the wrong way, drove the wrong way the motorway slip road & then proceeded to do a u-turn back onto the carriageway he had just left....

tt.

His driving ban?

Just 18 months!!!!!

fking ridiculous.

There seems to be no consistency in sentences.

[405dogvan]

BFG TERRANO said:

Hoofy said:

So is a supermarket car park a public highway then?

As soon as public are allowed access in the eyes of the law regarding traffic laws yes.

Balls - supermarkets clearly tell you that their carparks are private property (our local Bus Station is similarly signed), this ensures they are not required to maintain them to the standards of the public highway and can have anyone removed they don't like the look of.

If the Police start to prosecute offences on this "private property" as-if they occurred on the public highway, they also have to start respecting the rights of people to be there and hold supermarkets to the same standards as local councils (signage, maintenance, liability of injuries and damage and so on)

Do YOU think Tesco want to start paying for speed bump/pothole damage, Liverpool trips, tree branch scratches and all the other stuff local authorities are saddled with? Of course not - and they know how to avoid that and it's maintaining the 'private properly' status.

[mph1977]

405dogvan said:

Balls - supermarkets clearly tell you that their carparks are private property (our local Bus Station is similarly signed), this ensures they are not required to maintain them to the standards of the public highway and can have anyone removed they don't like the look of.

Rubbish on both counts

a private ( as in unadopted ) road can be maintained ot any standard the owner wishes.

the removal of the implied licence licence ot free acess to pass and repass is irrelevant

a car park of a retail or entertainment premises is almost certainly a public place for the purpose of road traffic legisation, especially given the legislation was clairifed that way ro deal with 'croozers' and 'tray drifters'

405dogvan said:

If the Police start to prosecute offences on this "private property" as-if they occurred on the public highway, they also have to start respecting the rights of people to be there and hold supermarkets to the same standards as local councils (signage, maintenance, liability of injuries and damage and so on)

Do YOU think Tesco want to start paying for speed bump/pothole damage, Liverpool trips, tree branch scratches and all the other stuff local authorities are saddled with? Of course not - and they know how to avoid that and it's maintaining the 'private properly' status.

whibble whibble woo woo whibble testes
you are talking utter rot mr 405 of the family dog van

'private property' and 'a public place' are not mutually exclusive ,

In fact i'd like to invite you to a 'public place' on 'private property' where upon you can engage in a course of action which causes alarm harassment or distress directed at me or if you wish to really test it undertake an assault and/or battery ...