Why is the Lotus Esprit not appreciating in value??
Discussion
FeelingLucky said:
Welshbeef said:
Lotus have just gone into administration and closed down F1 operations
Do you do any fact checking before posting this st?Of for a drive in my imaginary 944, toodles.
So when did this happen WB?
MJK 24 said:
As this man says, they are appreciating so I'm a but unsure as to why people are saying they aren't.
To add to the above, perhaps fives years ago, you could get a V8 GT for £15/16k. They're now around £20k. A girl I knew paid £22k for a Sport 350 in 2007ish. That would now be a £30k + car.
To be fair one has to ask over this period whether the car has gone up in value of the GBP fallen To add to the above, perhaps fives years ago, you could get a V8 GT for £15/16k. They're now around £20k. A girl I knew paid £22k for a Sport 350 in 2007ish. That would now be a £30k + car.
FeelingLucky said:
Welshbeef said:
Lotus have just gone into administration and closed down F1 operations
Do you do any fact checking before posting this st?Of for a drive in my imaginary 944, toodles.
Toodles? Isn't that from Micky mouse house club cartoon
GravelBen said:
Race pedigree - did they ever race the Esprit?
Yes, it was successful too. Link was in the post directly above the one you quoted. Alternatively google X180R.If memory serves, the Sport 300 was a celebration model and used some bits - or at least mimicked some bits - of the X180R.
It's iconic in the UK no doubt, less well known everywhere else. The depth of their appeal now I think corresponds to their appeal when new, which was never at contemporary Ferraris and Porsches level. The Esprits always had a much more niche market. Same goes for TVR too. If the car was less popular than its contemporaries when new, it tends to remain so as a classic.
But they definitely are appreciating.
Edited by kiseca on Wednesday 5th November 08:24
Welshbeef said:
FeelingLucky said:
Welshbeef said:
Lotus have just gone into administration and closed down F1 operations
Do you do any fact checking before posting this st?Of for a drive in my imaginary 944, toodles.
Toodles? Isn't that from Micky mouse house club cartoon
I think the value of classic cars can be very fickle and easily affected. It wasn't really that long ago that good 308GTBs and 964 RSs were £30k, but now they're both more than double that. E Types have done a similar thing.
The Esprit suffers now from what it suffered from when new - an uncharasmatic 4cyl engine mated to an awful gearbox and a reputation for fragility. As the years go on and we all get taller and fatter that cockpit doesn't get any more comfortable either! Not only that, but looks are a bit part of classic cars, and whilst I love the Esprit's exotic and racy angular shape, most people don't and then there's the bits borrowed off other cars like the door handles and rear lights, which hardly add to the appeal. Those flaws are a great shame, because the ride and handling are utterly astonishing. The later V8s solved the performance problem and the engine was great, provided you changed the exhaust to try and unleash some sound out of it, although the clutch was dreadful for road use and the gearbox still terrible.
So for the average person, the Esprit lacks the looks or reputation to be an appreciating classic. For those people like me who love ride and handling above all else and love the looks though, they look like great value
The Esprit suffers now from what it suffered from when new - an uncharasmatic 4cyl engine mated to an awful gearbox and a reputation for fragility. As the years go on and we all get taller and fatter that cockpit doesn't get any more comfortable either! Not only that, but looks are a bit part of classic cars, and whilst I love the Esprit's exotic and racy angular shape, most people don't and then there's the bits borrowed off other cars like the door handles and rear lights, which hardly add to the appeal. Those flaws are a great shame, because the ride and handling are utterly astonishing. The later V8s solved the performance problem and the engine was great, provided you changed the exhaust to try and unleash some sound out of it, although the clutch was dreadful for road use and the gearbox still terrible.
So for the average person, the Esprit lacks the looks or reputation to be an appreciating classic. For those people like me who love ride and handling above all else and love the looks though, they look like great value
Welshbeef said:
FeelingLucky said:
Welshbeef said:
Lotus have just gone into administration and closed down F1 operations
Do you do any fact checking before posting this st?Of for a drive in my imaginary 944, toodles.
Toodles? Isn't that from Micky mouse house club cartoon
Has Lotus gone into administration, or is this another one of your lies?
I'm not disputing the imaginary 944, I know you have one of those boyo.
Welshbeef said:
FeelingLucky said:
Welshbeef said:
Lotus have just gone into administration and closed down F1 operations
Do you do any fact checking before posting this st?Of for a drive in my imaginary 944, toodles.
Toodles? Isn't that from Micky mouse house club cartoon
The F1 team is Enfield and they're sponsored by Lotus. Sponsorship monies paid so far is £0.00 and future payments will total £0.00. Enfield wanted to use the Lotus name to attract further sponsorship as they feel the Lotus name is prestigious in Motorsport circles and would help attract further sponsorship. Lotus were happy to let his happen.
otolith said:
I remember it as the Lotus that got Martin Donnelly back racing after his horrific F1 crashMJK 24 said:
You do realise that Lotus Cars and Lotus Engineering have zero financial involvement in the F1 team?
The F1 team is Enfield and they're sponsored by Lotus. Sponsorship monies paid so far is £0.00 and future payments will total £0.00. Enfield wanted to use the Lotus name to attract further sponsorship as they feel the Lotus name is prestigious in Motorsport circles and would help attract further sponsorship. Lotus were happy to let his happen.
In fairness to WB, he's probably working off news from the 80's that has finally reached Wales. The F1 team is Enfield and they're sponsored by Lotus. Sponsorship monies paid so far is £0.00 and future payments will total £0.00. Enfield wanted to use the Lotus name to attract further sponsorship as they feel the Lotus name is prestigious in Motorsport circles and would help attract further sponsorship. Lotus were happy to let his happen.
Maybe because they are cramped, uncomfortable and hot, have a coarse, noisy, 4 cyl. engine that is not that powerful. It can't help that there is no roofless version either.
Add a fragile drivtrain, iffy gearchange and cheap interior, expensive parts and poor build quality means that their stunning looks and handling are overshadowed.
The Esprit is not appreciating simply because there are not enough buyers willing to pay big money for one, not desirable enough in other words.
Add a fragile drivtrain, iffy gearchange and cheap interior, expensive parts and poor build quality means that their stunning looks and handling are overshadowed.
The Esprit is not appreciating simply because there are not enough buyers willing to pay big money for one, not desirable enough in other words.
Finlandese said:
Well Giugiaro Esprits have been appriciating quite nicely. As far as the looks go, I can´t imagine a more positive reaction that my S2 gets while on the road.
Personally, I think the earlier ones are stunning with the S2/3 being the pinnacle. I never gelled with the later V8 one. With regards to fragile mechanicals is be surprised if there wasn't a specialist who offered engineering solutions to resolve all the issues by now.
Prices have only really moved inline with the devaluing of the GBP. Lack of brand image and racing pedigree will mean no overseas demand to drive prices hard and it's a car from the generation below the Boomers who are the group that drives domestic demand.
It does make them an absolute bargain in relative terms.
Welshbeef said:
FeelingLucky said:
Welshbeef said:
Lotus have just gone into administration and closed down F1 operations
Do you do any fact checking before posting this st?Of for a drive in my imaginary 944, toodles.
Toodles? Isn't that from Micky mouse house club cartoon
Yes, 2 teams didn't appear - Caterham and Marrussia. As reported in the media in the run up to the event. And the media at the event. And the media after the event. Neither of which are Lotus. That's why they're called Caterham and Marussia, not Lotus.
Esprits have been undervalued for some time now. I think they suffered for many years for being a cheap way into supercar ownership and many have been ruined by scrimping on maintenance or tasteless modifications.
That only makes the few remaining really good cars all the more rare.
Prices are finally picking up now but there is still a long way to go when people are paying so much for Integrales, Escorts and Sierra Cosworths and the like.
As for race pedigree, 308s didn't really have any and are worth £80k and rising, whereas the urQuattro is totally iconic, a rally legend and currently worth buttons.
Prices for the best Esprits can only go one way from here. Styling is everything with classic cars and 80s cars are starting to come into their own now. The Turbo Esprit is a true 80's icon and Giugiaro masterpiece. Chapman wouldn't let his engineers touch the shape. Here's why:
This 1981 dry sump Turbo left the factory when Chapman was still alive. The Turbo Esprit was the last car he was directly involved with.
It has inboard rear brakes.
It has no turbo lag (remarkable now, never mind 1981).
It has a galvanised chassis and grp body. Glassfibre 308s are worth more than steel ones.
The gearbox is a delight on early cars - they used the Citroen SM (Maserati) box. The handling is still genuinely impressive. Ride is deliciously supple yet it corners flat and composed. It's so far ahead of its time, the 80's 911s were total widowmakers. I'd even argue that it was the first proper handling supercar. Ferrari BB, Lamborghini Countach, Aston V8 Vantage - all were straight line super 'GT' cars. Hard cornering was not even a consideration. Opposite lock? Forget it.
It was more expensive than the Ferrari 308 in 1981 too. The sheer audacity of the project is clear with the early cars, dry sump lubrication, 3 piece Compomotive split rims, Panasonic roof stereo. Numbers of dry sump cars are tiny too, only 143 made including the Essex liveried launch cars. At around £25k for a good one, they're still looking very good value. An Essex would be over £40k now, still half the price of a good 308!
That only makes the few remaining really good cars all the more rare.
Prices are finally picking up now but there is still a long way to go when people are paying so much for Integrales, Escorts and Sierra Cosworths and the like.
As for race pedigree, 308s didn't really have any and are worth £80k and rising, whereas the urQuattro is totally iconic, a rally legend and currently worth buttons.
Prices for the best Esprits can only go one way from here. Styling is everything with classic cars and 80s cars are starting to come into their own now. The Turbo Esprit is a true 80's icon and Giugiaro masterpiece. Chapman wouldn't let his engineers touch the shape. Here's why:
This 1981 dry sump Turbo left the factory when Chapman was still alive. The Turbo Esprit was the last car he was directly involved with.
It has inboard rear brakes.
It has no turbo lag (remarkable now, never mind 1981).
It has a galvanised chassis and grp body. Glassfibre 308s are worth more than steel ones.
The gearbox is a delight on early cars - they used the Citroen SM (Maserati) box. The handling is still genuinely impressive. Ride is deliciously supple yet it corners flat and composed. It's so far ahead of its time, the 80's 911s were total widowmakers. I'd even argue that it was the first proper handling supercar. Ferrari BB, Lamborghini Countach, Aston V8 Vantage - all were straight line super 'GT' cars. Hard cornering was not even a consideration. Opposite lock? Forget it.
It was more expensive than the Ferrari 308 in 1981 too. The sheer audacity of the project is clear with the early cars, dry sump lubrication, 3 piece Compomotive split rims, Panasonic roof stereo. Numbers of dry sump cars are tiny too, only 143 made including the Essex liveried launch cars. At around £25k for a good one, they're still looking very good value. An Essex would be over £40k now, still half the price of a good 308!
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