Why is the Lotus Esprit not appreciating in value??

Why is the Lotus Esprit not appreciating in value??

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Monkeylegend

26,226 posts

230 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
FeelingLucky said:
Welshbeef said:
Lotus have just gone into administration and closed down F1 operations
Do you do any fact checking before posting this st?
Of for a drive in my imaginary 944, toodles.
Somebody should sack the PH news team, they seemed to have missed this one. So do the BBC come think of it.

So when did this happen WB?

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
MJK 24 said:
As this man says, they are appreciating so I'm a but unsure as to why people are saying they aren't.

To add to the above, perhaps fives years ago, you could get a V8 GT for £15/16k. They're now around £20k. A girl I knew paid £22k for a Sport 350 in 2007ish. That would now be a £30k + car.
To be fair one has to ask over this period whether the car has gone up in value of the GBP fallen wink

homologeo

394 posts

165 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
I don't think the Espirit has aged that well; It looks like the kind of car that someone in the 70s might predict we would all be driving today.

I don't dislike them. In fact, thanks to Lotus Challenge on the Amiga 500 - I will always have a soft spot for them.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
FeelingLucky said:
Welshbeef said:
Lotus have just gone into administration and closed down F1 operations
Do you do any fact checking before posting this st?
Of for a drive in my imaginary 944, toodles.
2 F1 teams didn't appear at The USA

Toodles? Isn't that from Micky mouse house club cartoon

kiseca

9,339 posts

218 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
GravelBen said:
Race pedigree - did they ever race the Esprit?
Yes, it was successful too. Link was in the post directly above the one you quoted. Alternatively google X180R.

If memory serves, the Sport 300 was a celebration model and used some bits - or at least mimicked some bits - of the X180R.

It's iconic in the UK no doubt, less well known everywhere else. The depth of their appeal now I think corresponds to their appeal when new, which was never at contemporary Ferraris and Porsches level. The Esprits always had a much more niche market. Same goes for TVR too. If the car was less popular than its contemporaries when new, it tends to remain so as a classic.

But they definitely are appreciating.

Edited by kiseca on Wednesday 5th November 08:24

Monkeylegend

26,226 posts

230 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
FeelingLucky said:
Welshbeef said:
Lotus have just gone into administration and closed down F1 operations
Do you do any fact checking before posting this st?
Of for a drive in my imaginary 944, toodles.
2 F1 teams didn't appear at The USA

Toodles? Isn't that from Micky mouse house club cartoon
Neither of which was Lotus, unless you are saying Caterham are Lotus.

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
I think the value of classic cars can be very fickle and easily affected. It wasn't really that long ago that good 308GTBs and 964 RSs were £30k, but now they're both more than double that. E Types have done a similar thing.

The Esprit suffers now from what it suffered from when new - an uncharasmatic 4cyl engine mated to an awful gearbox and a reputation for fragility. As the years go on and we all get taller and fatter that cockpit doesn't get any more comfortable either! Not only that, but looks are a bit part of classic cars, and whilst I love the Esprit's exotic and racy angular shape, most people don't and then there's the bits borrowed off other cars like the door handles and rear lights, which hardly add to the appeal. Those flaws are a great shame, because the ride and handling are utterly astonishing. The later V8s solved the performance problem and the engine was great, provided you changed the exhaust to try and unleash some sound out of it, although the clutch was dreadful for road use and the gearbox still terrible.

So for the average person, the Esprit lacks the looks or reputation to be an appreciating classic. For those people like me who love ride and handling above all else and love the looks though, they look like great value driving

FeelingLucky

1,082 posts

163 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
FeelingLucky said:
Welshbeef said:
Lotus have just gone into administration and closed down F1 operations
Do you do any fact checking before posting this st?
Of for a drive in my imaginary 944, toodles.
2 F1 teams didn't appear at The USA

Toodles? Isn't that from Micky mouse house club cartoon
Was Lotus one of them????
Has Lotus gone into administration, or is this another one of your lies?
I'm not disputing the imaginary 944, I know you have one of those boyo.

MJK 24

5,648 posts

235 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
FeelingLucky said:
Welshbeef said:
Lotus have just gone into administration and closed down F1 operations
Do you do any fact checking before posting this st?
Of for a drive in my imaginary 944, toodles.
2 F1 teams didn't appear at The USA

Toodles? Isn't that from Micky mouse house club cartoon
You do realise that Lotus Cars and Lotus Engineering have zero financial involvement in the F1 team?

The F1 team is Enfield and they're sponsored by Lotus. Sponsorship monies paid so far is £0.00 and future payments will total £0.00. Enfield wanted to use the Lotus name to attract further sponsorship as they feel the Lotus name is prestigious in Motorsport circles and would help attract further sponsorship. Lotus were happy to let his happen.

Leins

9,418 posts

147 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
otolith said:
Not much race pedigree, but not zero.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Esprit_GT1
I remember it as the Lotus that got Martin Donnelly back racing after his horrific F1 crash


Finlandese

540 posts

174 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
Well Giugiaro Esprits have been appriciating quite nicely. As far as the looks go, I can´t imagine a more positive reaction that my S2 gets while on the road.

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
MJK 24 said:
You do realise that Lotus Cars and Lotus Engineering have zero financial involvement in the F1 team?

The F1 team is Enfield and they're sponsored by Lotus. Sponsorship monies paid so far is £0.00 and future payments will total £0.00. Enfield wanted to use the Lotus name to attract further sponsorship as they feel the Lotus name is prestigious in Motorsport circles and would help attract further sponsorship. Lotus were happy to let his happen.
In fairness to WB, he's probably working off news from the 80's that has finally reached Wales. wink

kev b

2,708 posts

165 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
Maybe because they are cramped, uncomfortable and hot, have a coarse, noisy, 4 cyl. engine that is not that powerful. It can't help that there is no roofless version either.

Add a fragile drivtrain, iffy gearchange and cheap interior, expensive parts and poor build quality means that their stunning looks and handling are overshadowed.

The Esprit is not appreciating simply because there are not enough buyers willing to pay big money for one, not desirable enough in other words.


DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
Finlandese said:
Well Giugiaro Esprits have been appriciating quite nicely. As far as the looks go, I can´t imagine a more positive reaction that my S2 gets while on the road.
Personally, I think the earlier ones are stunning with the S2/3 being the pinnacle. I never gelled with the later V8 one.

With regards to fragile mechanicals is be surprised if there wasn't a specialist who offered engineering solutions to resolve all the issues by now.

Prices have only really moved inline with the devaluing of the GBP. Lack of brand image and racing pedigree will mean no overseas demand to drive prices hard and it's a car from the generation below the Boomers who are the group that drives domestic demand.

It does make them an absolute bargain in relative terms.

Alex

9,975 posts

283 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
Same reason as Porsche 944's aren't really, because they aren't 911's
Seen the price of used 996s recently?

amusingduck

9,396 posts

135 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
Alex said:
Seen the price of used 996s recently?
Is a 996 a classic car?

Europa1

10,923 posts

187 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
FeelingLucky said:
Welshbeef said:
Lotus have just gone into administration and closed down F1 operations
Do you do any fact checking before posting this st?
Of for a drive in my imaginary 944, toodles.
2 F1 teams didn't appear at The USA

Toodles? Isn't that from Micky mouse house club cartoon
What in the name of Judas Iscariot's b*&boy are you smoking? Or is it something in the leeks?

Yes, 2 teams didn't appear - Caterham and Marrussia. As reported in the media in the run up to the event. And the media at the event. And the media after the event. Neither of which are Lotus. That's why they're called Caterham and Marussia, not Lotus.

The Pits

4,289 posts

239 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
Esprits have been undervalued for some time now. I think they suffered for many years for being a cheap way into supercar ownership and many have been ruined by scrimping on maintenance or tasteless modifications.

That only makes the few remaining really good cars all the more rare.

Prices are finally picking up now but there is still a long way to go when people are paying so much for Integrales, Escorts and Sierra Cosworths and the like.

As for race pedigree, 308s didn't really have any and are worth £80k and rising, whereas the urQuattro is totally iconic, a rally legend and currently worth buttons.

Prices for the best Esprits can only go one way from here. Styling is everything with classic cars and 80s cars are starting to come into their own now. The Turbo Esprit is a true 80's icon and Giugiaro masterpiece. Chapman wouldn't let his engineers touch the shape. Here's why:



This 1981 dry sump Turbo left the factory when Chapman was still alive. The Turbo Esprit was the last car he was directly involved with.

It has inboard rear brakes.

It has no turbo lag (remarkable now, never mind 1981).

It has a galvanised chassis and grp body. Glassfibre 308s are worth more than steel ones.

The gearbox is a delight on early cars - they used the Citroen SM (Maserati) box. The handling is still genuinely impressive. Ride is deliciously supple yet it corners flat and composed. It's so far ahead of its time, the 80's 911s were total widowmakers. I'd even argue that it was the first proper handling supercar. Ferrari BB, Lamborghini Countach, Aston V8 Vantage - all were straight line super 'GT' cars. Hard cornering was not even a consideration. Opposite lock? Forget it.

It was more expensive than the Ferrari 308 in 1981 too. The sheer audacity of the project is clear with the early cars, dry sump lubrication, 3 piece Compomotive split rims, Panasonic roof stereo. Numbers of dry sump cars are tiny too, only 143 made including the Essex liveried launch cars. At around £25k for a good one, they're still looking very good value. An Essex would be over £40k now, still half the price of a good 308!

The Pits

4,289 posts

239 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all


when I was 11 this was the most desirable car on the planet!

Moog72

1,598 posts

176 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
Alex said:
J4CKO said:
Same reason as Porsche 944's aren't really, because they aren't 911's
Seen the price of used 996s recently?
What's your point here? 996 IS a 911 model variant is it not?