Why is the Lotus Esprit not appreciating in value??
Discussion
The Pits said:
Esprits have been undervalued for some time now. I think they suffered for many years for being a cheap way into supercar ownership and many have been ruined by scrimping on maintenance or tasteless modifications.
That only makes the few remaining really good cars all the more rare.
Prices are finally picking up now but there is still a long way to go when people are paying so much for Integrales, Escorts and Sierra Cosworths and the like.
As for race pedigree, 308s didn't really have any and are worth £80k and rising, whereas the urQuattro is totally iconic, a rally legend and currently worth buttons.
Prices for the best Esprits can only go one way from here. Styling is everything with classic cars and 80s cars are starting to come into their own now. The Turbo Esprit is a true 80's icon and Giugiaro masterpiece. Chapman wouldn't let his engineers touch the shape. Here's why:
This 1981 dry sump Turbo left the factory when Chapman was still alive. The Turbo Esprit was the last car he was directly involved with.
It has inboard rear brakes.
It has no turbo lag (remarkable now, never mind 1981).
It has a galvanised chassis and grp body. Glassfibre 308s are worth more than steel ones.
The gearbox is a delight on early cars - they used the Citroen SM (Maserati) box. The handling is still genuinely impressive. Ride is deliciously supple yet it corners flat and composed. It's so far ahead of its time, the 80's 911s were total widowmakers. I'd even argue that it was the first proper handling supercar. Ferrari BB, Lamborghini Countach, Aston V8 Vantage - all were straight line super 'GT' cars. Hard cornering was not even a consideration. Opposite lock? Forget it.
It was more expensive than the Ferrari 308 in 1981 too. The sheer audacity of the project is clear with the early cars, dry sump lubrication, 3 piece Compomotive split rims, Panasonic roof stereo. Numbers of dry sump cars are tiny too, only 143 made including the Essex liveried launch cars. At around £25k for a good one, they're still looking very good value. An Essex would be over £40k now, still half the price of a good 308!
Stunning car. If only I had a garage!That only makes the few remaining really good cars all the more rare.
Prices are finally picking up now but there is still a long way to go when people are paying so much for Integrales, Escorts and Sierra Cosworths and the like.
As for race pedigree, 308s didn't really have any and are worth £80k and rising, whereas the urQuattro is totally iconic, a rally legend and currently worth buttons.
Prices for the best Esprits can only go one way from here. Styling is everything with classic cars and 80s cars are starting to come into their own now. The Turbo Esprit is a true 80's icon and Giugiaro masterpiece. Chapman wouldn't let his engineers touch the shape. Here's why:
This 1981 dry sump Turbo left the factory when Chapman was still alive. The Turbo Esprit was the last car he was directly involved with.
It has inboard rear brakes.
It has no turbo lag (remarkable now, never mind 1981).
It has a galvanised chassis and grp body. Glassfibre 308s are worth more than steel ones.
The gearbox is a delight on early cars - they used the Citroen SM (Maserati) box. The handling is still genuinely impressive. Ride is deliciously supple yet it corners flat and composed. It's so far ahead of its time, the 80's 911s were total widowmakers. I'd even argue that it was the first proper handling supercar. Ferrari BB, Lamborghini Countach, Aston V8 Vantage - all were straight line super 'GT' cars. Hard cornering was not even a consideration. Opposite lock? Forget it.
It was more expensive than the Ferrari 308 in 1981 too. The sheer audacity of the project is clear with the early cars, dry sump lubrication, 3 piece Compomotive split rims, Panasonic roof stereo. Numbers of dry sump cars are tiny too, only 143 made including the Essex liveried launch cars. At around £25k for a good one, they're still looking very good value. An Essex would be over £40k now, still half the price of a good 308!
Thanks for your post The Pits 
I didn't realise that the early cars had inboard brakes and a different gearbox. I drove a '98 V8 GT and the gearbox was so horrid that it (and the vicious clutch that the V8s had) dominated the experience for me, although I have an over-riding memory of just how well it drove in terms of steering, ride and handling. Mind you, the Countach had similar problems but they're worth a small fortune. As I said in my post, classic car values are fickle things; I wouldn't be at all surprised if Esprit values suddenly took off, but then again I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't and I doubt anyone could predict it. As I said before, 308GTBs and 964 RSs suddenly went from £30k to £80k+ seemingly overnight, as did 550 values from circa £50k to £80k to £90k. I must confess, I'm very tempted by an Esprit in the future, but one would have to be so careful buying one!
I didn't realise that the early cars had inboard brakes and a different gearbox. I drove a '98 V8 GT and the gearbox was so horrid that it (and the vicious clutch that the V8s had) dominated the experience for me, although I have an over-riding memory of just how well it drove in terms of steering, ride and handling. Mind you, the Countach had similar problems but they're worth a small fortune. As I said in my post, classic car values are fickle things; I wouldn't be at all surprised if Esprit values suddenly took off, but then again I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't and I doubt anyone could predict it. As I said before, 308GTBs and 964 RSs suddenly went from £30k to £80k+ seemingly overnight, as did 550 values from circa £50k to £80k to £90k. I must confess, I'm very tempted by an Esprit in the future, but one would have to be so careful buying one!
Just not enough demand, I suppose. You can get entry-level Ferraris for this money.
The original origami shape is the one for me. Like the original Countach, its design is uncompromising, and all the better for that.
Still have a thing for the JPS-liveried versions. I got to sit in one at an ex-racer's collection in Suffolk a month or so back. I have to say that the combination of build quality and the passage of time had not been kind. So much as I loved it, I would not buy. Which is related to the OP's question.
The original origami shape is the one for me. Like the original Countach, its design is uncompromising, and all the better for that.
Still have a thing for the JPS-liveried versions. I got to sit in one at an ex-racer's collection in Suffolk a month or so back. I have to say that the combination of build quality and the passage of time had not been kind. So much as I loved it, I would not buy. Which is related to the OP's question.
I'd love one. I think the problem is that they do more for blokes than they do for girls.
It's not really a "come on love, lets go to (insert nice pub 30 miles away) in the Esprit" kind of car.
Yet they also don't win many points in a pub-bragging contest either.
(Yetyet, good grief I want one)
It's not really a "come on love, lets go to (insert nice pub 30 miles away) in the Esprit" kind of car.
Yet they also don't win many points in a pub-bragging contest either.
(Yetyet, good grief I want one)
Moog72 said:
Alex said:
J4CKO said:
Same reason as Porsche 944's aren't really, because they aren't 911's
Seen the price of used 996s recently?I sold my 944 Turbo at the wrong time! (and my 968 would have been worth 50% more than I paid for it 2.5 years ago if I hadn't stacked it)
williamp said:
Not only did Bond drive one, Sharon stone also drove one. And she didn't wear knickers. Mind you, maybe thats what kept values low??
So did Richard Grieco. Lotus seemed to go through a phase in the early '90s trying to promote the Esprit in the USA. There was the Esprit X180R race car which raced in the US and the Turbo SE appeared in three Hollywood movies at least.The Pits said:
The Turbo Esprit is a true 80's icon and Giugiaro masterpiece. Chapman wouldn't let his engineers touch the shape.
Iirc, Chapman wanted the 'duck tail' spoiler on the back of the earlier turbo cars but when they drove the prototype they found it ruined the handling. Chapman wouldn't let the engineers get rid of it, so they added in the little flick spoiler on the back of the roof to stop the air flow hitting the large spoiler, there by canceling out its negative effect.I love the earlier turbo cars, the engine may be gruff, but it certainly has character, and as a 40 year old, 6ft, 14+ stone driver I have no problems with the seating, getting in out etc...
There seems to be a lot of love for it too, going by the reaction and comments when driving one.
Yes, love that story, interesting that Chapman, an aeronautical engineer, would take the designer's side! The result is a rare thing. A production car that remains true to the designer's vision. Simply impossible these days. Here are those lines again.
Edited by The Pits on Wednesday 5th November 12:24
Edited by The Pits on Wednesday 5th November 13:12
fatjon said:
TVR Cerbera is worth more than I paid for it in 2007 despite its apoplectic running costs. I think the Esprit problem is that it's pig ugly, badly made (even compared with a TVR), not very quick and has a vile, worst of the 1970's interior. It really has no redeeming features.
Must say that I disagree with pretty much everything you said. I guess you can´t argue about matters of taste, but I like the way Esprit looks and based on the reaction it gets on the road so do many other people..
The Pits said:
So you have a rare thing. A production car that remains true to the designer's vision. Simply impossible these days. Here are those lines again.
Begone with that modern rehash! I present for your viewing pleasure, the 1972 Turin car:
Oh and for the uninitiated here's chassis number 1 (0100G) and the final one (of 10675 in total) some 28 years later, including a Clicky to read.
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