Why is the Lotus Esprit not appreciating in value??
Discussion
otolith said:
It's a great looking car, IMO, but it's very much of its time. If you don't like how cars of that era were styled, you won't like it.
I agree with you, but I have to say that even people who aren´t wedge crazy like me seem to appriciate the design for it´s purity and audicity.Great article Impasse. I was fortunate to see the first and last Esprits together at last year's TLF event.
While quite a departure from the 'kiwi' prototype Giugiaro also styled the Turbo Esprit update as I'm sure you know and it was that vision that Chapman preserved so well. Oh for the days when designers and engineers had more say than marketing departments and focus groups!
While quite a departure from the 'kiwi' prototype Giugiaro also styled the Turbo Esprit update as I'm sure you know and it was that vision that Chapman preserved so well. Oh for the days when designers and engineers had more say than marketing departments and focus groups!
Fat Albert said:
Moog72 said:
Alex said:
J4CKO said:
Same reason as Porsche 944's aren't really, because they aren't 911's
Seen the price of used 996s recently?I sold my 944 Turbo at the wrong time! (and my 968 would have been worth 50% more than I paid for it 2.5 years ago if I hadn't stacked it)
The 996 is in limbo, seems to be considered the idiot ginger stepchild of the 911 line, I have driven a couple and I thought they were great, seems a huge discrepancy where an older 911 with the right letters on the back can command quarter of a million quid and you can get a 996 for 8 grand.
I suspect now is the time to buy 996's, they wont go any lower.
As for the Esprit, it isn't like they are giving them away, they just havent gone mental like old Porsches devoid of a proper cooling system.
The Pits said:
As for race pedigree, 308s didn't really have any and are worth £80k.
International demand replaces the missing race pedigree. In addition, 308 prices weren't really going anywhere until dealers ran out of all the other Ferrari classics in the sub £100k arena so 308s and now 328s which both remained unloved as the brands' base models for many years were pumped up almost over night. How many prestige Lotus dealers are there to push these products ever higher? I'd argue none.
No cache in owning one either so no demand from the 'new money' brigade.
It's also Lotus' halo car so no other models above it to drag it up.
It needs a trigger event like a dealer deciding to define a premium market for the cars and establishing themselves in that sector to get prices to move stronger than the devaluing of the GBP which is all they are doing at the moment.
The two key points is that either they are going to suddenly start getting media coverage from journos working with a dealer and jump massively into line with other iconic cars or the bubble will burst and current owners will be unaffected as there is no bubble premium to come off unlike owners of MGBs who will wake up one morning wondering why their is a pile of pooh on their drive and an enormous deficit in their pension pot.
Another important factor for this car in terms of lacking domestic demand, these aren't Boomer cars but cars much loved by people in their 40s to early 50s. This is a crap market as we are all haemorrhaging cash raising children and the excess space, time and money to indulge in a two seater classic is somewhat sparse for most.
This is the sort of car that will go stratospheric in 10 years as the generation who owned posters of it hit retirement, kids buggering off and suddenly have time, money and space to indulge themselves. Only a little bit of demand will see these cars rocket. There is nothing wrong with them at all it's just that the buyers for them aren't yet there.
Giugiaro Esprits are pretty crap.
You can't get in them.
You won't fit in one.
You can't see out of them.
They have the steering column out of an Austin Princess.
The door handles are from a Marina. Or an MGB, depending on which side of the door (which doesn't open far enough) you are on.
The gearchange is pants.
The turbo lag is awful.
They sound like an Escort.
The wastegate gurgles like a bog being flushed.
The door glass doesn't wind down properly, so there's nowhere to rest your arm.
They smell like a canoe full of petrol.
The panel gaps are shocking.
The fibreglass is wrinkly.
And they are a pig to work on.
But for some reason I love them.
To me, they recall the days when Lotus ruled Formula 1. And if the turbocharged four pot motor doesn't sound special, then it is a snarly old thing and surprisingly effective.
In terms of performance, handling and sense of occasion, it really gives very little away to a Ferrari 308. In fact, I owned my Esprit back to back with a Ferrari 328. The Ferrari was better finished, had nicer switchgear, the transmission was better, it was easier to drive and more straightforward to service.
But the Esprit handled at least as well. The steering was better. It was pretty much as fast. And, for all of its quad cams and eight cylinders, the Ferrari sounded just as crap as the Esprit. An Alfa V6 sounds far nicer.
Public reaction to the Esprit is remarkable. I've never driven anything that generates so much positive attention. It is far more eye catching than the Ferrari. And reactions are always positive, with none of the jealousy or resentment that you sometimes got with the 328.
And that wonky bodywork is fibreglass. So it won't rot. It is impervious to parking dings. The chassis on the S3s is galvanised, so there are no rotten tubes lurking underneath, unlike your TVRs.
But Esprit is not a relaxing car to drive. Mine took me to Le Mans and back a few years ago. It covered 1600 miles in three days, without missing a beat. The car was fine. But I was absolutely frazzled. You really need to take an Esprit by the scruff of the neck and drive it properly. It isn't a car for pottering about in.
But I am not sure that an Esprit is quite the bargain it appears. There are a lot of rough Esprits out there. Unlike most Ferraris, many Esprits are neglected. And they aren't cheap to put right.
And some models of Esprit are worth far more than others. A concours S1 would fetch surprisingly strong money and buyers would fight over an immaculate JPS S2 or Essex Turbo. I reckon a mint Giugiaro Turbo HC would fetch double what a 1988 Stephens bodied car would make.
I must confess to being hopelessly biased.
I first bought my Esprit back in 2002 and sold it two years later. I bought the same car back a few years after. Then sold it again in 2012. And I have just bought the damn thing back for the third time.
Perversely I was hoping for some proper 80's turbo lag and was disappointed not to find any. Try an Audi Quattro, now that's more like it!
You expect some innovations in a Chapman era Lotus and the lack of turbo lag was probably the biggest single one for the Turbo project. My 1990 Turbo SE had way more than my 81 car.
Love the story of buying the same car back 3 times, is that your car in the pics? Looks lovely. Panel gaps look pretty neat too!
You expect some innovations in a Chapman era Lotus and the lack of turbo lag was probably the biggest single one for the Turbo project. My 1990 Turbo SE had way more than my 81 car.
Love the story of buying the same car back 3 times, is that your car in the pics? Looks lovely. Panel gaps look pretty neat too!
Pat H said:
Public reaction to the Esprit is remarkable. I've never driven anything that generates so much positive attention. It is far more eye catching than the Ferrari. And reactions are always positive, with none of the jealousy or resentment that you sometimes got with the 328.
Excatly the same with my S2. It´s unbelivable, even in traffic people will always make room for it.When I was born, The Spy Who Loved Me was 5 years old already. It must have taken at least another 5-10 years for me to watch it, but I do remember being completely smitten with the Esprit. It was like nothing I'd ever seen, and it was British. I've wanted to own one ever since, but for the reasons so many people have laid down here.
I begged and begged my Dad to get one, but being 6ft 3in he couldn't entertain the idea and got a TVR instead (which I loved of course).
One day it'll be in the collection (that I haven't started yet).
I begged and begged my Dad to get one, but being 6ft 3in he couldn't entertain the idea and got a TVR instead (which I loved of course).
One day it'll be in the collection (that I haven't started yet).
Here's that engine.
In fairness, it sounds pretty good for a four pot. Loads of snarly Dellorto induction roar. The later injected Esprit Turbos lose the induction noise and are devoid of personality.
The engine is unexpectedly smooth.
Sadly it is a sod to work on. The timing belt is hopelessly inaccessible and the oil filter is tucked under the carbs.
And who thought it would be a good idea to site the distributor directly underneath two 45mm carbs which are pressurised by the turbo?
No wonder so many of them burst into flames.
Turbo lag is evident, but is an acceptable compromise given the performance.
The interior is not pleasant. The Citroen Maserati gearbox is reasonably precise, but the shift is clonky. The BL switchgear is awful.
Steering through Ford rack is superb. Offset steering column nowhere near as bad as it looks.
No clutch foot rest is a pain. Not enough leg room for tall drivers.
Ventilation is crap.
Big lift out sunroof is good news, and provides targa style motoring.
Glass roof makes the cabin too hot in summer, but means interior is light and airy. Later Esprits with black leather and no sunroof are claustrophobic and gloomy.
You spend a lot of time chasing creaks and rattles, but the fit and finish is better than the TVR Griffith which I used to own.
Esprit doesn't look out of place amongst modern expensive exotica at Le Mans.
Hammering along the autoroute chasing Dino and Stratos. A wonderful motoring memory. At times like this you can forgive all of its faults and appreciate just how much Colin Chapman achieved in his shed at Hethel with a roll of fibreglass and the Ford and BL parts bins.
No real need. With engines from 160 bhp up to 350bhp there's a power output for everyone.
Oh and: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w21Aa2QYsrk
Oh and: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w21Aa2QYsrk
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