Garage blown my engine - where do I stand?
Discussion
Yeah. I don;t know. Cleary they are in the wrong, but what will stand 'in a court of law' I don't know. I don't have written contract or anything. They could start claiming the engine was blown when they picked it up etc. Innocent until proven guilty etc.
Obviously me and the Mrs are gutted and can't believe they are treating us like this. We haven't done anything wrong here we believe. Turbo went on the car driving home. Pulled over as clearly the turbo was failing (high wining sound that matched load (not revs or speed), and loss of power, oil being burnt out of exhaust. When pulled over engine running normally, not warning lights, engine check ok. Start stop no issues. Let the garage pick the car up on flatbed as didn't want to risk any further damage. Ask them to replace turbo with a reconditioned turbo (came with 12 months warranty). Week later got a call saying they had "replace the turbo but when started the engine they coundn't stop it. The manifold must-be/is full of oil, so we need to take that off". A week or so later I call and they say they have removed all the oil but the engine won't start and tey need to take the top off to see "if there is a bent value" and I actually get confirmation that the engine had run away with itself. A week later I go down (after another visit to see if they had done anything) and they had taken top of engine off and it was clear that one piston was severally damaged and it had been smashing into the valves, and was told they will replace them and see if it will run. I went down yesterday and ask how it was progressing and was told 'we've not looked at it'. After pushing them to do something they said the will work on it this week (or the lady did). Got a call this morning from the owner saying the engine is beyond repair and needs a new engine. I said ' Well ok, but there is the question who pays for it', he said ' you do', I said ' well the engine was working fine when you picked it up, and asked you to repair the turbo, during that time one of your mechanics didn't check everything they needed to check whilst replacing the turbo and as a consequence the end ran away with itself, so from my understanding it the garage responsibility'. To which he replied ' you haven't paid us for replacing the turbo or anything', I said " well of course would be be paying you for the pickup and work on replacing the turbo, but not for damaging our engine'. At which point he said ' we won't be paying for that and shall take legal advise'.
So for me I believe we are not in the wrong. However will any of that stand up in court as I have NO PROOF, aside from a turbo receipt I brought, and a broken car that is still at their garage.
Obviously me and the Mrs are gutted and can't believe they are treating us like this. We haven't done anything wrong here we believe. Turbo went on the car driving home. Pulled over as clearly the turbo was failing (high wining sound that matched load (not revs or speed), and loss of power, oil being burnt out of exhaust. When pulled over engine running normally, not warning lights, engine check ok. Start stop no issues. Let the garage pick the car up on flatbed as didn't want to risk any further damage. Ask them to replace turbo with a reconditioned turbo (came with 12 months warranty). Week later got a call saying they had "replace the turbo but when started the engine they coundn't stop it. The manifold must-be/is full of oil, so we need to take that off". A week or so later I call and they say they have removed all the oil but the engine won't start and tey need to take the top off to see "if there is a bent value" and I actually get confirmation that the engine had run away with itself. A week later I go down (after another visit to see if they had done anything) and they had taken top of engine off and it was clear that one piston was severally damaged and it had been smashing into the valves, and was told they will replace them and see if it will run. I went down yesterday and ask how it was progressing and was told 'we've not looked at it'. After pushing them to do something they said the will work on it this week (or the lady did). Got a call this morning from the owner saying the engine is beyond repair and needs a new engine. I said ' Well ok, but there is the question who pays for it', he said ' you do', I said ' well the engine was working fine when you picked it up, and asked you to repair the turbo, during that time one of your mechanics didn't check everything they needed to check whilst replacing the turbo and as a consequence the end ran away with itself, so from my understanding it the garage responsibility'. To which he replied ' you haven't paid us for replacing the turbo or anything', I said " well of course would be be paying you for the pickup and work on replacing the turbo, but not for damaging our engine'. At which point he said ' we won't be paying for that and shall take legal advise'.
So for me I believe we are not in the wrong. However will any of that stand up in court as I have NO PROOF, aside from a turbo receipt I brought, and a broken car that is still at their garage.
Sump said:
You now need to be careful here depending on the garage.
If you go full guns blazing what will you do when they call bankruptcy, shut down and reopen with another name?
Have they got a reputation they don't mind losing?
I would think can they afford it, its the most popular and probably the most respected local garage in our town. 2 mechanics good size premises, booked up 3 weeks in advance. We have used them in the past for a service and tire change.If you go full guns blazing what will you do when they call bankruptcy, shut down and reopen with another name?
Have they got a reputation they don't mind losing?
Googling around it seems a replacement engine would be around £1600 + fitting which they should be able to afford.
This is the reason why I refuse to do work for people that ask (I am a trader with a workshop, for prepping my stock) - I'm simply not insured against ruining a customer's car if they bring it to me for work and it's not my own sales stock.
The garage must put you in the position you were in at the start and would not legally have a leg to stand on
The garage must put you in the position you were in at the start and would not legally have a leg to stand on
bosshog said:
Yeah. I don;t know. Cleary they are in the wrong, but what will stand 'in a court of law' I don't know. I don't have written contract or anything. They could start claiming the engine was blown when they picked it up etc. Innocent until proven guilty etc.
Obviously me and the Mrs are gutted and can't believe they are treating us like this. We haven't done anything wrong here we believe. Turbo went on the car driving home. Pulled over as clearly the turbo was failing (high wining sound that matched load (not revs or speed), and loss of power, oil being burnt out of exhaust. When pulled over engine running normally, not warning lights, engine check ok. Start stop no issues. Let the garage pick the car up on flatbed as didn't want to risk any further damage. Ask them to replace turbo with a reconditioned turbo (came with 12 months warranty). Week later got a call saying they had "replace the turbo but when started the engine they coundn't stop it. The manifold must-be/is full of oil, so we need to take that off". A week or so later I call and they say they have removed all the oil but the engine won't start and tey need to take the top off to see "if there is a bent value" and I actually get confirmation that the engine had run away with itself. A week later I go down (after another visit to see if they had done anything) and they had taken top of engine off and it was clear that one piston was severally damaged and it had been smashing into the valves, and was told they will replace them and see if it will run. I went down yesterday and ask how it was progressing and was told 'we've not looked at it'. After pushing them to do something they said the will work on it this week (or the lady did). Got a call this morning from the owner saying the engine is beyond repair and needs a new engine. I said ' Well ok, but there is the question who pays for it', he said ' you do', I said ' well the engine was working fine when you picked it up, and asked you to repair the turbo, during that time one of your mechanics didn't check everything they needed to check whilst replacing the turbo and as a consequence the end ran away with itself, so from my understanding it the garage responsibility'. To which he replied ' you haven't paid us for replacing the turbo or anything', I said " well of course would be be paying you for the pickup and work on replacing the turbo, but not for damaging our engine'. At which point he said ' we won't be paying for that and shall take legal advise'.
So for me I believe we are not in the wrong. However will any of that stand up in court as I have NO PROOF, aside from a turbo receipt I brought, and a broken car that is still at their garage.
Wait, did you purchase and supply the turbo to the garage yourself? And then you only asked the garage for the labour on fitting the turbo?Obviously me and the Mrs are gutted and can't believe they are treating us like this. We haven't done anything wrong here we believe. Turbo went on the car driving home. Pulled over as clearly the turbo was failing (high wining sound that matched load (not revs or speed), and loss of power, oil being burnt out of exhaust. When pulled over engine running normally, not warning lights, engine check ok. Start stop no issues. Let the garage pick the car up on flatbed as didn't want to risk any further damage. Ask them to replace turbo with a reconditioned turbo (came with 12 months warranty). Week later got a call saying they had "replace the turbo but when started the engine they coundn't stop it. The manifold must-be/is full of oil, so we need to take that off". A week or so later I call and they say they have removed all the oil but the engine won't start and tey need to take the top off to see "if there is a bent value" and I actually get confirmation that the engine had run away with itself. A week later I go down (after another visit to see if they had done anything) and they had taken top of engine off and it was clear that one piston was severally damaged and it had been smashing into the valves, and was told they will replace them and see if it will run. I went down yesterday and ask how it was progressing and was told 'we've not looked at it'. After pushing them to do something they said the will work on it this week (or the lady did). Got a call this morning from the owner saying the engine is beyond repair and needs a new engine. I said ' Well ok, but there is the question who pays for it', he said ' you do', I said ' well the engine was working fine when you picked it up, and asked you to repair the turbo, during that time one of your mechanics didn't check everything they needed to check whilst replacing the turbo and as a consequence the end ran away with itself, so from my understanding it the garage responsibility'. To which he replied ' you haven't paid us for replacing the turbo or anything', I said " well of course would be be paying you for the pickup and work on replacing the turbo, but not for damaging our engine'. At which point he said ' we won't be paying for that and shall take legal advise'.
So for me I believe we are not in the wrong. However will any of that stand up in court as I have NO PROOF, aside from a turbo receipt I brought, and a broken car that is still at their garage.
It's a sickener, but you are correct in saying you have done nothing wrong here. Keep that in mind and follow this one through coldly and objectively.
I think this one is right up a 'no-win-no-fee' lawyer's street, or if you have legal cover on your car insurance it might be worth giving them a call.
I think this one is right up a 'no-win-no-fee' lawyer's street, or if you have legal cover on your car insurance it might be worth giving them a call.
bosshog said:
Week later got a call saying they had "replace the turbo but when started the engine they coundn't stop it. The manifold must-be/is full of oil, so we need to take that off". A week or so later I call and they say they have removed all the oil but the engine won't start and tey need to take the top off to see "if there is a bent value" and I actually get confirmation that the engine had run away with itself.
As I mentioned in an earlier post its common knowledge with any respected garages that the intercooler must be drained when a turbo has failed due to bearing failure (not inlet manifold as they state).They should have mentioned this as they are the professionals and quoted a price !
Lol too late removing the inlet manifold ! (intercooler) after the horse has bolted.
Might be worth contacting BMW and getting a written report of whats involved with this type of failure,they will mention the intercooler needs draining as a precaution to stop it running away on its own oil.
A friend used to work at a BMW main dealer a few years ago and had a similar job and was told by the master tec to drain the intercooler,he was lazy and left it,guess what new engine required and sacked on the spot.
Wish you well op on a claim...
pmjg66 said:
bosshog said:
Week later got a call saying they had "replace the turbo but when started the engine they coundn't stop it. The manifold must-be/is full of oil, so we need to take that off". A week or so later I call and they say they have removed all the oil but the engine won't start and tey need to take the top off to see "if there is a bent value" and I actually get confirmation that the engine had run away with itself.
Might be worth contacting BMW and getting a written report of whats involved with this type of failure,they will mention the intercooler needs draining as a precaution to stop it running away on its own oil.A friend used to work at a BMW main dealer a few years ago and had a similar job and was told by the master tec to drain the intercooler,he was lazy and left it,guess what new engine required and sacked on the spot.
Wish you well op on a claim...
bosshog said:
Question: I'm presuming the garage will wiggle out of this because we supplied the turbo. I imagine they will claiming fitting this turbo caused the run away again. Does any mechanic here know if that's true/possible?
Yes it's possible I'm afraid. If oil leaks past the seals it can start the runaway process.bosshog said:
Is there any way to prove the turbo was not to blame?
It's possible the new one wasnt great, it's possible it wasnt fitted properly, it's possible the old turbo threw s
t into the intercooler and inlet and that it was just a matter of time before it did it anyway. On the upside, there are sellers on the bay offering supply and fit for under 4 figures inc ancills
bosshog said:
Is there any way to prove the turbo was not to blame?
You would need to get the new turbo removed and independently inspected with the manufacturer.It will be fine,the oil is due to the previously failed turbo as it has collapsed damaging the turbo seals..
They should have done this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPa8KxnumE4
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