RE: Six great supercars for BMW M3 money

[motor mad]

Early NSX's do look dated but then they are 25 years old. I'd take one of these over all of the above mentioned cars. Ten years old and still stunning.

Edited by motor mad on Wednesday 26th November 14:02

[E65Ross]

Love how that none of the cars listed have useable rear seats or, like the M3, back doors! The 911 rear seats are horrendous at best. GTR a bit better I suppose.

New vs used.... Bit daft imo.

[Ten Four]

Not bias at all.....
I don't think they've aged that bad as everyone is making it out to be...

I love the pop ups.

Edited by Ten Four on Wednesday 26th November 15:29

[mwstewart]

Ten Four said:

Not bias at all.....
I don't think they've aged that bad as everyone is making it out to be...

I love the pop ups.

Edited by Ten Four on Wednesday 26th November 15:29

Nice looking from the front - it's just the hideious back end and interior.

I apprecaite that by all accounts they are a good car.

[Timbo_S2]

Ummm - Aren't there 7 cars in the 6 cars list??

I'd have the 360 please. and a 320d for everyday boredom.

[Ten Four]

mwstewart said:

Nice looking from the front - it's just the hideious back end and interior.

I apprecaite that by all accounts they are a good car.

I'm not blind and can see the rear has dated. But compared to a 348?

What's wrong with the interior? Lovely soft leather and the console is simple and functional. Its not new with screens everywhere of course but I don't see how its aged horribly?
I'll cop it for this, but comparing to a lotus esprit for example, NSX interior is years ahead imho.

[mwstewart]

Ten Four said:

I'm not blind and can see the rear has dated. But compared to a 348?

What's wrong with the interior? Lovely soft leather and the console is simple and functional. Its not new with screens everywhere of course but I don't see how its aged horribly?
I'll cop it for this, but comparing to a lotus esprit for example, NSX interior is years ahead imho.

I'm with you when in comparison to the 348. The NSX looks much better.

[daytona365]

The NSX must be one of the last sensible semi supercars. I for what it's worth think it still looks great and what else with similar attributes are available for around 20k ? Sweet FA !!

[thegreenhell]

PZR said:

Pistonheads said:

Ignore the fact that the GT-R is a big, heavy coupe, has four seats (notionally - it's a 2+2 really), a large boot and has a badge as exotic as a pint of milk because the Nissan is one of the greatest and fastest supercars in modern history.

In some ways, the Nissan badge is arguably more "exotic" than the others mentioned.

A company that's older than most of the other companies mentioned in the article, a company which has been making cars for longer than all of the companies mentioned, and a company that was involved in racing (and building racing cars) before all of the other companies mentioned in the article.

Some pint of milk, that.

Exotic - adj. unusual, alluring, glamorous, colourful, fascinating, romantic

I'm not quite sure which definition of the word exotic you are using, but I don't think that just being old qualifies. Besides, Audi is older than Nissan. And what racing were the company involved in before the 1930's, while Scuderia Ferrari were running the factory Alfa Romeo racing team and winning Grands Prix, Le Mans, the Mille Miglia and the Targa Florio, and Auto Union (of which Audi was one of the Union) were part of the German Silver Arrow steamroller in GP racing and speed record-breaking?

PZR said:

Why are Nissan not as "exotic" a company as Ferrari, Audi, Honda, Noble and Porsche?

They are not exotic in the same way Hotpoint and Frigidaire aren't exotic. They are known as mass producers of white goods. Mention the name Nissan to most people, and all they'll associate it with are millions of bland Micras, Sunnys and Primeras. Occasional dabbling in motorport in order to sell a few extra million bland boxes on wheels does not make them any more exotic, which is why I don't perceive Honda or Audi to be in any way exotic either.

[daytona365]

I've been offered a very nice GT40 for virtually a song. Can PH's advise, should I buy it or is it not exotic enough, being little more than a variation on a bland Ford Cortina of the era ?

[ninjacost]

just purchased a noble its a great car very useable just needs a bit more power to make it perfect

[PZR]

thegreenhell said:

PZR said:

Pistonheads said:

Ignore the fact that the GT-R is a big, heavy coupe, has four seats (notionally - it's a 2+2 really), a large boot and has a badge as exotic as a pint of milk because the Nissan is one of the greatest and fastest supercars in modern history.

In some ways, the Nissan badge is arguably more "exotic" than the others mentioned.

A company that's older than most of the other companies mentioned in the article, a company which has been making cars for longer than all of the companies mentioned, and a company that was involved in racing (and building racing cars) before all of the other companies mentioned in the article.

Some pint of milk, that.

Exotic - adj. unusual, alluring, glamorous, colourful, fascinating, romantic

I'm not quite sure which definition of the word exotic you are using, but I don't think that just being old qualifies. Besides, Audi is older than Nissan. And what racing were the company involved in before the 1930's, while Scuderia Ferrari were running the factory Alfa Romeo racing team and winning Grands Prix, Le Mans, the Mille Miglia and the Targa Florio, and Auto Union (of which Audi was one of the Union) were part of the German Silver Arrow steamroller in GP racing and speed record-breaking?

PZR said:

Why are Nissan not as "exotic" a company as Ferrari, Audi, Honda, Noble and Porsche?

They are not exotic in the same way Hotpoint and Frigidaire aren't exotic. They are known as mass producers of white goods. Mention the name Nissan to most people, and all they'll associate it with are millions of bland Micras, Sunnys and Primeras. Occasional dabbling in motorport in order to sell a few extra million bland boxes on wheels does not make them any more exotic, which is why I don't perceive Honda or Audi to be in any way exotic either.

That's why I wrote "exotic". The word needs to be defined in this context. For me, Nissan qualifies in several of the definitions you quoted ('unusual' and 'fascinating' for sure) but I don't expect people who know next to nothing about Nissan to agree. Nissan is - was - a lot more than "bland boxes on wheels".

I don't want to diminish the history and achievements of the other companies. Mainly because they are undeniable, but also because I'm a genuine admirer of all of them (yes, even underdog Noble) and have owned three of the marques in question. However, Ferrari wasn't actually making his own racing cars until the early 1940s at least and we might be comparing apples to pears if we count Scuderia Ferrari and Ferrari S.p.A. as the same thing in this context. I understand some of Audi's complicated lineage and we are talking (surely?) here about the post 1932 merger four rings of Wanderer, DKW, Horch and the original Audi, are we not? Nissan Jidosha KK was a similar re-naming/rebranding in 1932, coincidentally.

What I want to do is point out that Nissan is far more than the "mass producer of white goods" that you call it (I notice you pointed at Hotpoint and Frigidaire rather than Sub-Zero or Wolf...!), is far older than most people realise, has been involved in motorsport for far longer than most people realise (like most people you don't seem to know what they were doing in the 1930s, for instance) and is a very interesting and complex industrial organisation.

There are actually many interesting parallels to be drawn in the histories of all the companies concerned (with the obvious exception of Noble). All native to former Axis powers that were devastated by war, effectively starting from zero in the post war period, and some of them (Porsche - in a way, Audi and Nissan for sure) involved in designing and manufacturing war materiel.

If you think that the name of Nissan is effectively nothing it can only mean that you know next to nothing about the company. If you can't see past those "millions of bland Micras, Sunnys and Primeras" to - for example - the satellites and their launch systems, then there's not much point in me trying to explain.

[thegreenhell]

PZR said:

If you think that the name of Nissan is effectively nothing it can only mean that you know next to nothing about the company. If you can't see past those "millions of bland Micras, Sunnys and Primeras" to - for example - the satellites and their launch systems, then there's not much point in me trying to explain.

I think if what is plainly visible to an observer sparks no interest in the origins, history and accomplishments of that subject then that is the very definition of "not exotic". However, in the interests of this discussion I did some reading on the internet about the company, and read your responses more than once for clues, but I'm afraid I have to stick with my original assessment. The Nissan brand is as exotic as porridge.

[Harry Flashman]

I am in exactly this market at the moment, and have narrowed it down to R8 and 360.

On balance, the Ferrari for specialness and possible appreciation. The R8 is a much better bet mechanically though. 360s need care, regularly eat things like balljoints (not cheap), and are from a different era of build quality. I saw one last summer in my perfect spec, at a reputable specialist (they were selling for an owner). It needed balljoints, a clutch, some minor paintwork corrections, a service and a few other mechanical wear and tear bits. Was quoted £10k to get it sorted.

Er...

Edited by Harry Flashman on Thursday 27th November 16:44

[Harry Flashman]

ninjacost said:

just purchased a noble its a great car very useable just needs a bit more power to make it perfect

Roush are your friends.

[McSam]

Have we got this far without anyone noticing there are, in fact, seven alternative cars in the article?

[benters]

love an NSX although only driven the revised model same colour as shown. . .is that Miami blue ? very nice all the same. The early cars in red with a black roof. . .YES PLEASE ! whenever i look at the ads, it seems a big percentage are auto

[plenty]

PZR said:

In some ways, the Nissan badge is arguably more "exotic" than the others mentioned.

A company that's older than most of the other companies mentioned in the article, a company which has been making cars for longer than all of the companies mentioned, and a company that was involved in racing (and building racing cars) before all of the other companies mentioned in the article.

By the same token, Vauxhall must therefore be one of the world's most exotic marques. After all, Vauxhall started making cars in 1903 and was exceptionally successful in motorsport well before most other manufacturers were even established.

Or how about Hyundai and Daewoo? Whose aerospace division builds some of the world's most advanced aircraft.

Conversely, Lamborghini cannot be exotic according to these criteria: founded as late as 1963, with no motorsport heritage to speak of, never on the leading edge of technology, and with its roots in farm vehicles.

[V8RX7]

said:

The Lotus Esprit Sport 300.... Its engine, meanwhile, was also a work-of-art, producing 302bhp from its 2.2-litre turbo. With a kerbweight of just 1,200kg you can understand why it is a paid up member of the supercar club

Erm

An RX7 with mild tweaking gets 340+bhp from it's 1.3 (or 2.6 depending how you measure it) It's kerb weight is similar and a decent one is circa £6k

They look better too.

And will probably be more reliable (can't usually say that)

[wanacoop]

Not a bad shout, a proper sized car, good boot, get the kids in, a lovely sounding V10, 200+mph, and can be a pretty sweet taxi..