RE: Six great supercars for BMW M3 money
Discussion
thegreenhell said:
...I did some reading on the internet about the company, and read your responses more than once for clues, but I'm afraid I have to stick with my original assessment. The Nissan brand is as exotic as porridge.
You're talking from the bottom of an elephant trap. A bit of 'internet research' isn't going to cut it I'm afraid. Especially so if you don't read Japanese. You haven't a clue what you're talking about.
swerni said:
I love Datsun's, but I certainly wouldn't call them exotic.
Datsun's what?There was never an auto manufacturer called 'Datsun'. All the cars you saw wearing a 'Datsun' emblem were Nissans, and if you think that all that Nissan was about was the cars that you saw wearing a 'Datsun' emblem then you know next to nothing about the company.
benters said:
love an NSX although only driven the revised model same colour as shown. . .is that Miami blue ? very nice all the same. The early cars in red with a black roof. . .YES PLEASE ! whenever i look at the ads, it seems a big percentage are auto 
Long Beach Pearl Blue. Lovely colourplenty said:
PZR said:
In some ways, the Nissan badge is arguably more "exotic" than the others mentioned.
A company that's older than most of the other companies mentioned in the article, a company which has been making cars for longer than all of the companies mentioned, and a company that was involved in racing (and building racing cars) before all of the other companies mentioned in the article.
By the same token, Vauxhall must therefore be one of the world's most exotic marques. After all, Vauxhall started making cars in 1903 and was exceptionally successful in motorsport well before most other manufacturers were even established.A company that's older than most of the other companies mentioned in the article, a company which has been making cars for longer than all of the companies mentioned, and a company that was involved in racing (and building racing cars) before all of the other companies mentioned in the article.
Or how about Hyundai and Daewoo? Whose aerospace division builds some of the world's most advanced aircraft.
Conversely, Lamborghini cannot be exotic according to these criteria: founded as late as 1963, with no motorsport heritage to speak of, never on the leading edge of technology, and with its roots in farm vehicles.
My first post in this thread was a response to the idea that the Nissan brand is effectively nothing in comparison with the others mentioned ("..a badge as exotic as a pint of milk.."), and I maintain that this could only be written, and believed, by people who have literally no clue about Nissan's history or past activities. That's it.
Leins said:
I'm a big fan of the NSX, and of the list it would be the first car I'd want. However, the 348 is the best looking Ferrari of the last 25 years IMO, with just about perfect proportions
To me it is simplistic and echoes the undeveloped bullishness of the era that spanwed it, but that can of course be seen both ways. The beauty of choice 
Supercars? Hmm, the NSX has about the same amount of power as a decent hot hatch these days. I may be wrong, but around 276bhp seems to ring a bell somewhere. Sure it handles. But in terms of thrust, it just doesn't cut the mustard.
I'm not keen to nit pick about cars; you can find anything wrong about any car if you intend on being that way inclined.
While I love the whole "working class hero" thing, thats not the point of this article. Purely for that reason, it would have to be the Porsche or Ferrari. Personally, I lean towards the Ferrari in this type of criteria, simply because many owners will readily admit its not the fastest in outright pace, but it is an event. The noise, the smell, the FEEL you get driving one.
I should also point out, I probably wouldnt buy one anyway. My taste is more along the lines of rally cars.
But, if I HAD to pick one, its Enzos house I play in.
I'm not keen to nit pick about cars; you can find anything wrong about any car if you intend on being that way inclined.
While I love the whole "working class hero" thing, thats not the point of this article. Purely for that reason, it would have to be the Porsche or Ferrari. Personally, I lean towards the Ferrari in this type of criteria, simply because many owners will readily admit its not the fastest in outright pace, but it is an event. The noise, the smell, the FEEL you get driving one.
I should also point out, I probably wouldnt buy one anyway. My taste is more along the lines of rally cars.
But, if I HAD to pick one, its Enzos house I play in.
PZR said:
My first post in this thread was a response to the idea that the Nissan brand is effectively nothing in comparison with the others mentioned ("..a badge as exotic as a pint of milk.."), and I maintain that this could only be written, and believed, by people who have literally no clue about Nissan's history or past activities. That's it.
As I'm sure you're keen to get across, you are the exception here. Even within the small niche of PH, hardly anyone knows or cares about Nissan's history. Outside of PH, they're just seen as more silver cars. Opinions on a brand are subjective, and although yours is perfectly valid, it is overwhelmingly in the minority, especially if we include normal people (those outside PH).
If all those people don't think Nissan is exotic, whether you believe them to be or not, they just aren't. It's not about who is right or has more evidence, in the context of the article it's a brand image, and that image is ultimately defined by how the majority collectively view the brand.
big_rob_sydney said:
Supercars? Hmm, the NSX has about the same amount of power as a decent hot hatch these days. I may be wrong, but around 276bhp seems to ring a bell somewhere. Sure it handles. But in terms of thrust, it just doesn't cut the mustard.
Mustn't forget things like kerb weight and drag factor - for example, an NSX was around 20mph quicker through the timing beams than a Focus RS at Bruntingthorpe a few years back - it's approx. on a par with an E46 M3.PZR said:
You're making my point for me. If auto manufacturers want to trade on their history and use it as part of their marketing, then why shouldn't we tip our hats at the rich history and heritage of the Vauxhall marque?
But these Brands are created and built based on the products and reputation that the company develops. Vauxhall etc have a nice long history of producing accessible cars. They have an impressive heritage stretching back a long time.But that doesn't make the brand exotic or exciting. If you want to see how the manufacturers want to market themselves you don't have to look much further than the products they sell. You may be trying to make the point that the other brands held in higher regard don't really deserve thier reputation. But that's how the world works.
Nissan make some excellent cars, they have good history, and also make some dross. On the whole, the brand is not exciting or exotc. But don't be upset for them as most of thier sales are based on the values that the company follow - being exotic isn't really one of them.
Hungrymc said:
But that doesn't make the brand exotic or exciting. If you want to see how the manufacturers want to market themselves you don't have to look much further than the products they sell. You may be trying to make the point that the other brands held in higher regard don't really deserve thier reputation. But that's how the world works.
Apparently there are kids growing up in the UK today who know all too well what French Fries are, but have no idea what a potato is. If we have (supposed?) motoring enthusiasts here on the forum who can't see any further than the Micras, Sunnies and Primeras it seems to me that they are a little like those French Fry-loving kids.Hungrymc said:
Nissan make some excellent cars, they have good history, and also make some dross. On the whole, the brand is not exciting or exotc. But don't be upset for them as most of thier sales are based on the values that the company follow - being exotic isn't really one of them.
My interest in Nissan's history (especially the racing/rallying side of things and the more esoteric of their products) has brought home to me just what a huge and complex organisation it has been for much of its existence. If you think that those Micras, Sunnies and Primeras are the things that define what Nissan is all about it for the masses it only means that the masses don't know much at all about Nissan. Yesterday I saw a guy who was wearing Ferrari branded 'sportswear' top-to-toe (he might have bought it here: http://store.ferrari.com/gb_en/?gclid=CPeR3LKTncIC... ). I'd be willing to bet that any knowledge he might have about the Ferrari brand doesn't go back all that far. For me, those 'official' Ferrari branded items seem not that different from Nissan's "porridge". But I don't think I'm a blinkered 'fan boi'. Nissan - especially lately - infuriates me sometimes. In fact, all the mentioned companies do to some extent.
StuntmanMike said:
St John Smythe said:
The NSX really shows its age now compared to that lot. It appears to be fitted with wheels from a skateboard
Agreed, expect to get flamed for this, but it's the only car there that does absolutely nothing for me.Aged very badly.
Fort Jefferson said:
95% of people who have M3's and M4',s will have them on some sort of finance package, that's just not available on those supercars.
I know this is probably the case but at the moment you can get personal loans at good interest rates, which work out (depending on which car we are talking about) cheaper of similar to the lease cost but you end up maybe paying a couple of years extra. At that point you own it right out and the car will still have a lot of value.9 yrs ago I brought the noble via a 4yr loan at 24k (minus deposit) and car is worth around 22k now.
However we will ignore the £££££ ive spent on it in this time. Lol
I've owned the 911, GTR and M400 - driven the R8 many times. No experience of the 360, NSX (very nice) or Lotus (but love Esprits). Great selection of cars but so very different. M400 is the best driving tool I've ever experienced and is pretty comfortable and usable, albeit not practical. Depends on your personal taste but I'm happy where I am.
New car buying is as much about being able to pay for it, trusting it'll work tomorrow and feeling special in a car that doesn't carry the faint smell of some elses sweat/farts, as it is about sourcing the 'best' car.
An M4 costs £600+VAT contract hire. The deposit will be a couple of grand. Funnily enough an M5 is a touch cheaper, as is a C63AMG 2-door. And for the diesel fans a 640d (which is still bloody fast) is just over £400+VAT PCM...queue references to that YouTube clip.
Try finding an equivalent finance deal on the older cars or one that comes with a warranty that's actually worth the paper it's written on. And the new car smell is exclusive to new cars.
And as for repairs, be prepared to dig very, very deep if your exotica actually sh*ts itself on the way to work. Twenty grand for a gearbox anyone? More for the engine?
Anyway, given my budget I can afford a new Zafira B 1.6 Life for £10K. What supercars are in my price range?
An M4 costs £600+VAT contract hire. The deposit will be a couple of grand. Funnily enough an M5 is a touch cheaper, as is a C63AMG 2-door. And for the diesel fans a 640d (which is still bloody fast) is just over £400+VAT PCM...queue references to that YouTube clip.
Try finding an equivalent finance deal on the older cars or one that comes with a warranty that's actually worth the paper it's written on. And the new car smell is exclusive to new cars.
And as for repairs, be prepared to dig very, very deep if your exotica actually sh*ts itself on the way to work. Twenty grand for a gearbox anyone? More for the engine?
Anyway, given my budget I can afford a new Zafira B 1.6 Life for £10K. What supercars are in my price range?
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