The £260 Indicator Bulb- Is this really Progress?

[mcdjl]

hora said:

In 10yrs of driving though Ive only ever changed one bulb (headlight)

Lucky! In almost three years of volvo ownership I've averaged two had light bulbs a year... always on = short life.

[Easternlight]

Think yourself lucky it wasn't coded to the car or you would have had to pay a dealer for that as well!

[anonymous-user]

Won't be long before companies like BBA Reman will just fix these things for you, the aftermarket always catches up.

[MagneticMeerkat]

TheInsanity1234 said:

surveyor said:

TheInsanity1234 said:

But at the same time, LED bulbs don't blow like normal bulbs, so you'll be replacing them a lot less frequently than filament bulbs, so the demand for them is a lot lower, which does mean they would command a higher premium.

?

Maybe that would make more sense...?

What?

My car is seventeen years old and has normal indicator bulbs. They cost fifty pence each. Let's say all four of them blow each year; giving a total cost p.a. of two pounds.

I would have to drive the car for 130 years for the LED price to break even. It's a Mazda - but come one!!! I'll be dead and it'll have been made into Soylent Green cans by then.

Also the bulbs don't blow each year. I'd reckon it would, at the rate of 50p a bulb, take more like 1,000 years for the Mazda to get through enough.

[robinessex]

The nearside headlamp went off on my car recently. Nope, not the £4.99 bulb. Scare stories of a new control module at $500 (it's a yank based car ). It turned out the a re-flash @ £34 + vat. did it. But why the fk can't thay leave the old fasioned fuse box their instead.

[grumpy]

TheInsanity1234 said:

But at the same time, LED bulbs don't blow, so you'll be replacing them a lot less frequently than bulbs, so the demand for them is a lot lower, which does mean they would command a higher premium.

Edited to make a bit more sense.

Edited by TheInsanity1234 on Saturday 22 November 22:16

Yes they do. Either the array goes, the LED itself, or more likely the driver goes. It makes no difference as they are part and parcel of the same thing.

[Lordglenmorangie]

It's the way every thing is going, we have just moved into a house with a dripping shower head. 50p repair with a new washer, oh no sir you have to replace the processor unit under the bath as we don't supply parts, £270.00 thank you !

[*Al*]

I recently had to buy a side light bulb for my 2007 Z4 Coupe with HID (specific to HID) the bulb comes complete in a holder at £30 from BMW. I couldn't get one anywhere else.

[PlayersNo6]

It's the same with the LED strip light indicators in a lot of new door mirrors, when they go you need a whole new bottom casing - usually main dealer only at the moment.

[GSE]

LED's themselves are tiny and very reliable. But their reliability depends on them being driven at an accurate level of constant current. You can't just connect them to 12v as you can with a filament bulb. So you need a (relatively) complex external driver that contains a lot of electronics. Also the leds need to be properly soldered to their base plates so that they dissipate heat properly. This is all done by smt (surface mount technology) machines now days, you can't solder them by hand. So the driver and the mounting of the leds are the weakest link in the chain. Led lights are not as reliable as you would think.

The move toward led rear lights and indicators is nothing to do with reliability or efficiency. It's purely a marketing and styling thing - you can make lots of pretty patterns in you rear light clusters using leds, which you can't do with a filament bulb!

Most of these led light clusters will contain the led arrays and driver all in the same assembly. When they go wrong options to repair them are going to be limited. You might be able to replace an electronic component within the driver, if you can get to it, but replacing individual failed leds on their own, is going to be virtually impossible. Despite being very reliable they still fail now and again.

So yes, the days of a £260 indicator 'bulb' replacement are rapidly approaching.

[Superhoop]

thelawnet said:

To their credit, when the ABS sensor system in these vehicles turned out to be a bit unreliable, they developed a smaller part to replace (£120 rather than £400), rather than the whole system. Plus they paid for my repair on a vehicle maintained out of their dealers, out of warranty.

VW did? Or was it Bosch who supply the part?

Don't think for one second that a car manufacturer doesn't push warranty costs back to their suppliers

[Slidingpillar]

D

GSE said:

LED's themselves are tiny and very reliable. But their reliability depends on them being driven at an accurate level of constant current. You can't just connect them to 12v as you can with a filament bulb. So you need a (relatively) complex external driver that contains a lot of electronics. Also the leds need to be properly soldered to their base plates so that they dissipate heat properly. This is all done by smt (surface mount technology) machines now days, you can't solder them by hand. So the driver and the mounting of the leds are the weakest link in the chain. Led lights are not as reliable as you would think.

Really? I illumated with LEDs the clock I added to a car. It was years ago, probably 1985 and the LEDs were still working fine when I sold the car in 2011. And they were overdriven as LEDs in 1985 were not that bright. A lot depends on the wiring of the car, Canbus systems are notoriously complicated, but adding LEDs to an old car is mostly simple.

[soi6]

what happens with visiting certain countries where i believe you need to carry a spare bulb kit ?
secondly , most LED's these days are not the tiny "Nipple" types we could all buy and use .They tend to be the "Cree" flat yellow modules that are a lot harder to work with !

[GroundEffect]

LEDs are far more reliable than incandescent bulbs or halogens. They should last the lifetime of the vehicle.

And LEDs are a lot more efficient too. They actually directly produce photons whereas a normal bulb mainly produces heat.

[Blayney]

GSE said:

LED's themselves are tiny and very reliable. But their reliability depends on them being driven at an accurate level of constant current. You can't just connect them to 12v as you can with a filament bulb. So you need a (relatively) complex external driver that contains a lot of electronics. Also the leds need to be properly soldered to their base plates so that they dissipate heat properly. This is all done by smt (surface mount technology) machines now days, you can't solder them by hand. So the driver and the mounting of the leds are the weakest link in the chain. Led lights are not as reliable as you would think.

The move toward led rear lights and indicators is nothing to do with reliability or efficiency. It's purely a marketing and styling thing - you can make lots of pretty patterns in you rear light clusters using leds, which you can't do with a filament bulb!

Most of these led light clusters will contain the led arrays and driver all in the same assembly. When they go wrong options to repair them are going to be limited. You might be able to replace an electronic component within the driver, if you can get to it, but replacing individual failed leds on their own, is going to be virtually impossible. Despite being very reliable they still fail now and again.

So yes, the days of a £260 indicator 'bulb' replacement are rapidly approaching.

Whilst this is right and I agree with you I slightly disagree with the "can't be soldered by hand", although I'm not sure the package car LED's come in - I've soldered plenty of 1005 package LED parts by hand.

As an aside I bet you guys would be sick when you realise how much it costs to make those LED packages once they are in mass production, I bet it's only about £5.

[k-ink]

GroundEffect said:

LEDs are far more reliable than incandescent bulbs or halogens. They should last the lifetime of the vehicle.

And LEDs are a lot more efficient too. They actually directly produce photons whereas a normal bulb mainly produces heat.

Clearly nonsense, otherwise this thread would not exist.

[northwest monkey]

k-ink said:

GroundEffect said:

LEDs are far more reliable than incandescent bulbs or halogens. They should last the lifetime of the vehicle.

And LEDs are a lot more efficient too. They actually directly produce photons whereas a normal bulb mainly produces heat.

Clearly nonsense, otherwise this thread would not exist.

Not necessarily - in the case of the OP, it may not have been the actual LED that failed, but one of the components connected to it.

[anonymous-user]

Word gets about. I guess VW will lose an EOS sale due to this thread.
I'll certainly add ' has this car got LED bulbs' to my questions when buying a new car!

[loose cannon]

I bet if you don't replace that led circuit board reasonably quickly it will end in a control unit replacement just to add insult to injury,

[GSE]

GroundEffect said:

LEDs are far more reliable than incandescent bulbs or halogens. They should last the lifetime of the vehicle.
And LEDs are a lot more efficient too. They actually directly produce photons whereas a normal bulb mainly produces heat.

Agree on both points. I should rephrase what I said - LED systems are not as reliable as you would think.

Blayney said:

As an aside I bet you guys would be sick when you realise how much it costs to make those LED packages once they are in mass production, I bet it's only about £5.

charltjr said:

Won't be long before companies like BBA Reman will just fix these things for you, the aftermarket always catches up.

Both true. So don't worry when one of your indicator goes - you'll be able to get a replacement for £130 instead of £260

Cheap simple filament bulbs are far too old tech for todays cars. The marketing managers say we want pretty patterns in our rear light clusters, so this is the way it will go.

Edited by GSE on Sunday 23 November 13:58