Winter tyres, to bother or not ?

[jon-]

etc

[Patrick Bateman]

4 degrees and wet on the way home from work this morning and Pilot Supersports feel more or less the same at putting the power down as when it's 10 degrees.

[MC Bodge]

Fox- said:

Snow remains sufficiently rare that it's a major newsworthy event when it does appear and often it doesn't appear at all, all winter. The problem we had was that between 2009 and 2012 we had a good what, 3 winters with consistent snowfall - unusual for the UK. Trouble is everyone now thinks thats the norm, despite 2013 being far more normal, hence the enormous explosion in popularity of winter tyres. Back in 2008 there was no PH winter tyres thread. I wonder why?

Exactly. There are some places in the UK with more wintry weather, but for most of Joe Public, in low-lying areas, snow or more than a day of sub-zero temperatures is described by news reporters in fleeces and Gore-Tex, looking concerned by the side of the road, as if it is a national emergency.

Even in the years mentioned above, where we (and a couple of million others) live, we had most wintry weather in early 2010, with much shorter periods of cold and snow in the following winters, with a very mild winter last year.

Nothing wrong with winter tyres, though, of course.

Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 25th November 11:26

[RobM77]

It's also worth remembering what winter tyres mean to you as an individual. For example, I'm a contractor paid by the day, I live in the countryside amongst untreated roads and I drive a FE/RWD car, so it pays me to have the winter tyres as the cost is small compared to the potential loss of income during snow, and in that sense they've paid for themselves several times over. If I was employed permanently and in the event of snow could work from home, or take a day off without losing income, then I may not choose to have the winter tyres. Now I've got them though I have them on the car all winter and I really feel the benefit in terms of grip and safety.

It's worth noting that when you're using your winter tyres you're not using your summer tyres, so you could look at it in the sense that you're paying for tyres by the millimetre, regardless of which set are on. So the cost of the actual tyres is inconsequential, save for any extra cost over the usual summer tyres (neglible for mine at least). The only cost then is how you fit them - mine sit on a second set of wheels, but those wheels could be sold for what I paid for them (secondhand on E-Bay) plus the refurb, so that doesn't worry me. In fact, you often see wheel and winter tyre sets going for so much on E-Bay that I could sell them at a profit at the right time of year. If you have one set of wheels and pay a fitter, then yes, it does cost a bit more.

We each have our own economic and safety benefits.

[goldblum]

jon- said:

Here's a a 15 year old advert for winter tyres, from a tyre website.

D'you think those are the current winter weather averages jon? Don't think we've had one frost yet..and we're in the cold bit.

[phib]

HAvent read the whole thread but given the weather forecast, I would suggest an outboard motor would be preferable to winter tyres !!

Phib

[goldblum]

True

[MC Bodge]

goldblum said:

D'you think those are the current winter weather averages jon? Don't think we've had one frost yet..and we're in the cold bit.

I saw an indicated air temp of 0degC on the dash his morning, as I drove through a dip in the road in an open rural area. There was no ground frost though. 2degC elsewhere.

As an academic exercise, I tested the braking and steering grip a few times this morning. All was good, although had there been frost or snow, probably not so good,although they are not bad in snow.

Some people would probably consider my Uniroyal rain tyres "all-season" though. I'll get some a Rainsport 3 when I replace them.

[kambites]

At this time of year when it's been as warm as it has this year I'd imagine the roads will be well above freezing for a while even if the air temperature isn't.

[aizvara]

kambites said:

At this time of year when it's been as warm as it has this year I'd imagine the roads will be well above freezing for a while even if the air temperature isn't.

It was freezing this morning in Cambridgeshire, and yesterday too. The roads had frost patches, particularly in the shaded areas, in dips and similar. Driving my FWD hatchback on normal Continental tyres was fine, if a bit unsure in the worst of the frost.

I'll be getting the BMW's winter wheels on this weekend hopefully. That will guarantee a warm winter, so no need for anyone else to bother.

[T1berious]

[quote]I'll be getting the BMW's winter wheels on this weekend hopefully. That will guarantee a warm winter, so no need for anyone else to bother.
[/quote]

Did this a few weeks back, which pretty much guarantees the mildest winter on record but they are more sure footed in the wet (I'm sure that's been mentioned earlier in the thread) when the temperature drops.

T1b

[yellowstreak]

A few years ago I had the pleasure of an army cross country skiing trip in Norway. We had to take our own vehicles across, a minibus and a van for all the kit. The weather was bad and the vehicles we were given completely unsuited to driving on roads covered in compacted snow. It was absolutely f-ing terrifying and the fear has stayed with me.

I now have winter tyres for my Forester (vredestein wintrac 4 xtreme), its around 1600kg and has about 320bhp. I feel much safer, not just on the rare occasions we have snow (when the tyres are epic) but on icy roads, the cold, the wet. I am a convert.

[arfur]

If it helps, I've had Winters to go on the cars for years ... always buy part worns in the summer from ebay or suchlike.

Currently have 255/35/19 winters on the Audi .. cost for 4 with 5mm on them was 200 quid - And they are premium brands.

No point in buying them new ... far too expensive

Oh, and if anyone wants a FREE set of 205/55/16 Runflat Vred Wintracs (off a 1 Series so will fit a Mini as well) I have a set you can HAVE. They will last this winter ... about 4mm on them. Collect Henley

[unpc]

Patrick Bateman said:

4 degrees and wet on the way home from work this morning and Pilot Supersports feel more or less the same at putting the power down as when it's 10 degrees.

Mine don't. I run the same tyre on mine and they really don't perform that well when below about 5 degrees. I drive a lot for work and winters are so much better in the cold and wet. It hasn't snowed since I bought them but if it does, Pilot Supersports on a BMW are going nowhere fast. That's not a risk I want to take as if I'm not at work, I'm not getting paid.

[Kateg28]

I do not understand.

Winter Tyres are better in Winter and this is a fact. Whether you would see the benefit or not is possibly up for debate as in the UK are winters are not like Canada or Central Europe but maybe the one time you need it is the one time it may save your life. I would try to have the best tyre I could for that particular occasion. Cannot change tyres each day but can for the seasons.

We put Winter tyres on both our cars as my OH pretty much needs to get to work, and he swaps between both cars.

The maths seems to make sense as we are only ever using one set of tyres on each car and we are fortunate enough to be able to store them.

[McSam]

Hugo a Gogo said:

well, considering I didn't ever say "just as safe"...

the full quote, in context:

Hugo a Gogo said:

kambites said:

It does strike me as odd that some people in the south of England wouldn't dream of running summer tyres in the winter (even if there's no snow) but are happy running winters in the summer. The difference in grip levels of comparably priced summer and winter tyres is generally greater at 25 degrees Celsius than at 0 degrees Celsius, even on wet roads.

how many spin off the road or slide into the car in frnt at the lights because their winter tyres lost grip in the summer?
how many can't get up their driveway in August because their winter tyres can't get traction

the difference between running summers in winter, and running winters in summer is plainly huge

10% increase in stopping distance vs almost 100% (at a slower speed)

and the chance of being unable to progress due to wheelspinning going from 0 to almost certain


and I don't agree that 'plenty of people' spin off the road in summer because they've used winter tyres, that's plainly bks

You're just not reading my posts, are you?

Twice now I have explicitly stated that where it snows heavily, I agree that using winter tyres all year round is less likely to cause an accident than using summers all year round.

I also explicitly stated that I wasn't talking about accidents caused specifically by using winter tyres in summer, but by the general use of tyres inferior to the best available. I was drawing the parallel between using ditchfinders vs premium tyres (perhaps 30%+ stopping distance increase) and using winter tyres vs summer tyres (perhaps 30%+ stopping distance increase).

It's surely not hard to see the similarities there. And yes, the figures you posted suggest a 29% increase in stopping distance (35/120=0.292), not 10% as you mention.

To reiterate, in case you've managed to not read the above again, in areas that see harsh weather it would be more sensible to use winters all year round. But that isn't half as sensible as using the correct tyres for the time of year, and switching back to summer swhen it warms up again.

[Hugo a Gogo]

I don't really know where you're going with this

but you're right, it's not 10%, i was looking at the all-seasons figures

it's 29%

vs almost 100% increase in winter (at only 40, a much lerger figure obviously at 60mph)

that's the reason why some people will take one risk (winters in summer), but not the other (summers in winter) because if there ever is snow, it's such a massive difference

you told me I was being deliberately obtuse for suggesting it is the reason

I never said 'winters are just as good as summers', 'crap tyres are as good as expensive ones' or anything else


and

McSam said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

how many spin off the road or slide into the car in frnt at the lights because their winter tyres lost grip in the summer?

Plenty of people.

I still doubt it very much

the vast majority of people go nowhere near the limits in dry conditions
in winter, the limits are so much closer, everyone is near or over them

[Nigel Worc's]

Don't laugh guys, these seem to have a C rating for wet grip, better than many more expensive winter tyres :

http://www.tyreleader.co.uk/car-tyres/ling-long/gr...

I'm seriously thinking of getting four (I have some spare wheels), at that price it seems like a good bet to have two sets of tyres, changing back and forth as needed.

Anyone any experience of them ?

[jon-]

Nigel Worc's said:

Don't laugh guys, these seem to have a C rating for wet grip, better than many more expensive winter tyres :

http://www.tyreleader.co.uk/car-tyres/ling-long/gr...

I'm seriously thinking of getting four (I have some spare wheels), at that price it seems like a good bet to have two sets of tyres, changing back and forth as needed.

Anyone any experience of them ?

The great thing about tyre labelling, is it's self certified.

Also, you can make a tyre that offers good wet braking, but can't do wet cornering etc.

I've not seen any tests of that particular tyre, but check out how one of it's brothers did in wet braking last year.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2013-Winter-T...

(hint, you'll have to scroll all the way down to 47th)

[anonymous-user]

Kateg28 said:

I do not understand.

Winter Tyres are better in Winter and this is a fact. Whether you would see the benefit or not is possibly up for debate as in the UK are winters are not like Canada or Central Europe but maybe the one time you need it is the one time it may save your life. I would try to have the best tyre I could for that particular occasion. Cannot change tyres each day but can for the seasons.

We put Winter tyres on both our cars as my OH pretty much needs to get to work, and he swaps between both cars.

The maths seems to make sense as we are only ever using one set of tyres on each car and we are fortunate enough to be able to store them.

Certainly in the far North and Scotland they make sense and I lived up there I'd have a set. However, I live in Hertfordshire and they would be a waste of money (and time) tbh.