Winter tyres, to bother or not ?

[McSam]

Hugo a Gogo said:

you are being deliberately obtuse I'm afraid
-snip-

No, I'm not. Please re-read my post to understand what I'm saying. I agreed that for most people, using winter tyres all year round is almost certainly less likely to result in an accident than using summers all year round. So your most recent post is totally wasted on me, I already agreed with the point you're re-iterating (though the data is interesting).

The point I was making was specifically against this argument:

Hugo a Gogo said:

how many spin off the road or slide into the car in frnt at the lights because their winter tyres lost grip in the summer?

Plenty of people. It's not specifically about winter tyres being used in summer, it's about the number of accidents which would have been avoided if you'd fitted a better tyre. The data you presented above shows it - warm dry conditions, 60mph stopping distance of 120ft on summers, 155ft on winters. I said it's unreasonable to call using winters all year round "just as safe" as using the correct tyres for the conditions. Plainly, that statement is correct.

[jamieduff1981]

Well I'm just back from dropping my commuter car off at the garage to have its winter tyres fitted (Nokian WR A3s, replacing Michelin Pilot Super Sports). They were really good in the cold last winter but felt really squirmy by June. I was late getting them off again due to a house move etc.

Where I live now doesn't drift too much apparently but there are some long steep inclines with unhelpful sharp bends or junctions at the bottom where would be hard to stop for on snow or ice on summer tyres and are impossible to take a run at to get up again.

[TurboHatchback]

I'd like a set of winter tyres but I live less than 1/2 a mile from the sea in Dorset and 200yds from work so I could probably survive without them. Coupled with them likely taking at least 4 years to pay for themselves I'm not sure I can justify the cost

[Hugo a Gogo]

McSam said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

you are being deliberately obtuse I'm afraid
-snip-

No, I'm not. Please re-read my post to understand what I'm saying. I agreed that for most people, using winter tyres all year round is almost certainly less likely to result in an accident than using summers all year round. So your most recent post is totally wasted on me, I already agreed with the point you're re-iterating (though the data is interesting).

The point I was making was specifically against this argument:

Hugo a Gogo said:

how many spin off the road or slide into the car in frnt at the lights because their winter tyres lost grip in the summer?

Plenty of people. It's not specifically about winter tyres being used in summer, it's about the number of accidents which would have been avoided if you'd fitted a better tyre. The data you presented above shows it - warm dry conditions, 60mph stopping distance of 120ft on summers, 155ft on winters. I said it's unreasonable to call using winters all year round "just as safe" as using the correct tyres for the conditions. Plainly, that statement is correct.

well, considering I didn't ever say "just as safe"...

the full quote, in context:

Hugo a Gogo said:

kambites said:

It does strike me as odd that some people in the south of England wouldn't dream of running summer tyres in the winter (even if there's no snow) but are happy running winters in the summer. The difference in grip levels of comparably priced summer and winter tyres is generally greater at 25 degrees Celsius than at 0 degrees Celsius, even on wet roads.

how many spin off the road or slide into the car in frnt at the lights because their winter tyres lost grip in the summer?
how many can't get up their driveway in August because their winter tyres can't get traction

the difference between running summers in winter, and running winters in summer is plainly huge

10% increase in stopping distance vs almost 100% (at a slower speed)

and the chance of being unable to progress due to wheelspinning going from 0 to almost certain


and I don't agree that 'plenty of people' spin off the road in summer because they've used winter tyres, that's plainly bks

[MC Bodge]

St John Smythe said:

July/August 2014 and July 2013.

It wasn't particularly hot in the Manchester area. Consistently warm, but not hot.

[anonymous-user]

MC Bodge said:

St John Smythe said:

July/August 2014 and July 2013.

It wasn't particularly hot in the Manchester area. Consistently warm, but not hot.

Well it was baking in London, both years. Whereas last winter was mild and wet

[MC Bodge]

St John Smythe said:

Well it was baking in London, both years. Whereas last winter was mild and wet

Last winter was mild and wet here too, as it has been for most of the past 30-odd of them.

Down at sea level we had a couple of cold winters in the early 80s, a couple of longish cold snaps in the 90s and Jan '01, unusually cold and snowy periods in Jan '10 and Dec '11, with very little cold and hardly any frost in the past 2 winters.

Today has been the coldest so far this winter around here -it was 2-3deg when I cycled to work.

[tomjol]

MC Bodge said:

St John Smythe said:

July/August 2014 and July 2013.

It wasn't particularly hot in the Manchester area. Consistently warm, but not hot.

Entirely disagree...but then I would certainly consider high 20s "hot" for Manchester

[kambites]

I like the fact that people are completely ignoring the fact that I said "if there's no snow".

[HertsBiker]

At 1 degree today, the quadraxers felt really stable. More at home than usual, just really nice. Stopping was brilliant, cornering I felt the ESP kicking slightly as I floored it on an empty roundabout. Full bore in first fave a slight tramp but no drama. Good value I think.

[Hugo a Gogo]

kambites said:

I like the fact that people are completely ignoring the fact that I said "if there's no snow".

I suppose people run winters, because they think there is a fair chance of snow

[MC Bodge]

tomjol said:

MC Bodge said:

St John Smythe said:

July/August 2014 and July 2013.

It wasn't particularly hot in the Manchester area. Consistently warm, but not hot.

Entirely disagree...but then I would certainly consider high 20s "hot" for Manchester

but it wasn't consistently in the high 20s. It was pleasantly warm quite often though. I cycle and motorbike to work -I notice when it is hot and cold.

The point that somebody was making was that it isn't HOT in world terms in the UK, especially outside of the SE.

The winter temperature around here is usually between 5 and 10DegC, with a few colder days and some nights of frost.

[nottyash]

never been a problem for me.
I drove Portsmouth to north Yorks in all the snow blizzards about 4 years ago, in a BMW 525.
It was the scaiest thing I have ever done.
No snow tyres, just Michelin summer tyres, and I am still here dispite a couple of sideway moments.

If I lived somewhere remote they maybe worthwhile especially on a RWD car, but I've gone for 4wd with summer tyres and never had a problem.
In fact I would rather buy a 4wd second car than mess around changing wheels and tyres as the temperature changes above and below 7 degrees

[kambites]

Hugo a Gogo said:

kambites said:

I like the fact that people are completely ignoring the fact that I said "if there's no snow".

I suppose people run winters, because they think there is a fair chance of snow

That's certainly why I run them, but some people seem to imply you'll die on summers just because the temperature hits 6.9 degrees Celsius.

[Fox-]

kambites said:

To be fair, really good summer tyres are also enormously impressive in cold, wet conditions.

This is what many people seem to miss. It was -1c on the way to work today and still my F1A2's offered all the grip I'd expect and more besides. Doubtless if it snowed they would be completely useless and the car wouldn't get off the drive but it snow is exceptionally rare here.

[goldblum]

Hugo a Gogo said:

kambites said:

I like the fact that people are completely ignoring the fact that I said "if there's no snow".

I suppose people run winters, because they think there is a fair chance of snow

Most people on here run winters because they're boy scouts and the thought putting extra equipment on their car to make it more capable excites them. Fog light wkers are also covered by this theory. Both additions will make no difference to most people nearly all of the time.

[Digby]

Vanin said:

Has there ever been a serious test of winter tyres on a 2 wheel drive versus a low profile set on a four wheel drive road car such as a Subaru or an Audi saloon?
Having to faff about changing wheels and tyres to suit a couple of weeks of possible bad weather is too much trouble for me.

We drive an XC70 with Pirelli 65/215 Scorpions so never have to worry too much about conditions at any time of year, from heavy rain to wet grass in field car parks, to snow and rough terrain. The side effect is the most comfortable and quiet ride of any car that I have owned. (Yes I have grown into the old fart my friends used to warn me about!)

Close.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotat...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOv2g5qTpvA

Another great example of the difference they can make.This was pretty much my experience where I live due to all the hills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNz1zvdHGvw&lis...

Edited by Digby on Monday 24th November 23:07

[Fox-]

Digby said:

Close.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotat...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOv2g5qTpvA

Another great example of the difference they can make.This was pretty much my experience where I live due to all the hills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNz1zvdHGvw&lis...

Edited by Digby on Monday 24th November 23:07

Awesome videos. If that was our typical winter weather I'm sure most of us wouldn't hesitate but to invest in a set of winter wheels with tyres.

But it's not, which I guess is why we don't. Snow remains sufficiently rare that it's a major newsworthy event when it does appear and often it doesn't appear at all, all winter. The problem we had was that between 2009 and 2012 we had a good what, 3 winters with consistent snowfall - unusual for the UK. Trouble is everyone now thinks thats the norm, despite 2013 being far more normal, hence the enormous explosion in popularity of winter tyres. Back in 2008 there was no PH winter tyres thread. I wonder why?

[windy1]

Just ordered some winters for my van to replace the worn summer tyres, not only because they'll be better at this time of the year, but because they are cheap.

[Digby]

Don't buy any.Simples!

I prey for snow or severe frosts as we have some extreme hills, lovely lanes between fields, horrible uphill angled turns and an impossible to climb private drive to the rear of the house to contend with.I had such a laugh zooming about with absolute confidence during the last lot we had.

I have never been stuck in terms of not being able to get home or near to my home (although if you have never been stuck in the snow, it's only due to you not going to the types of places that would get you stuck), but it has taken me hours to get there; now I would simply go where Shoguns fear to tread and be home in no time

My first experience with Winter tyres left my jaw on the floor and as we tend to suffer badly here when the temps drop (all out cars are currently covered in ice as I type) I will always keep a set handy on a spare set of wheels.

I don't care if it doesn't snow, they were amazing enough at gripping perfectly on frosty mornings to warrant a purchase for me.

Edited by Digby on Monday 24th November 23:35