Horrific MLM'ing
Discussion
Hoofy said:
Read him this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22770064
Perhaps some cross-thread weaponry here: (The merge thread)"But police are expected to focus on situations involving slightly aggressive and inconsiderate driving, such as:
- Driving too close to the vehicle in front
- Failing to give way at a junction (not requiring evasive action by another driver)
- Overtaking and pushing into a queue of traffic
- Being in the wrong lane and pushing into a queue on a roundabout
- Lane discipline, eg needlessly hogging the middle or outside lanes
- Inappropriate speed
- Wheel-spins, handbrake turns and other careless manoeuvres
JonRB said:
It always amuses me when I talk to people who proudly say they passed first time and are thus good drivers, yet have never done a jot of driver training since.
It always amuses me when I hear people equate the amount of driver training an individual has taken to the driving ability of that individual.
Edited by jkh112 on Monday 24th November 16:35
cj2013 said:
Perhaps a little harsh.
I failed 4 times, each for what I interpreted as trivial or grey areas. I'd been driving and learning for around 2 years and wasn't bothered about passing my test in a rush, so I gained quite a lot of experience. I'd end up as a chauffeur for my dad's driving laziness.
Fail 1 - Moved into the right hand lane at the end of a dual carriageway approaching a right turn on a roundabout. I did this when the roundabout was in sight (say 250m), whereas the instructor said this was dangerous (empty road) and I should have done so at the 1 mile point - at which point I felt I would have been more of a nuisance.
Fail 2 - Didn't cross busy traffic (turning right) when a still moving (15-20mph) Transit flashed its lights manically at me. I maintained that he was (according to the Highway Code) making me aware of his presence. Failed for Hesitation
Fail 3 - Went when a stationary car flashed me to give me right of way at a junction. I was failed for assuming right of way.
Fail 4 - An elderly person was stood in the middle of the road as I turned around a corner in a town back-street. I stopped to give him way, at which point he retreated backwards to the pavement. Failed for not letting him cross (this confused me)
I passed at attempt 5 with 3 minors (changed driving instructor after test #4), and I'd maintain that the constant frustration of failing for things that I'd just not been taught/were trivial made me a better driver. Plenty of lads I knew had passed 1st time at 17 and proceeded to have several lucky-to-be-alive accidents within their first 12 months of driving.
The problem is that the driving test doesn't actually test real life driving accurately, and can serve to give people an inaccurate sense of confidence. Driving tests would be better served with a period of black box monitoring over a 'probation period', in my opinion.
Good evidence would be from some attitudes in the black-box thread.
Been driving well over 10 years now, just to add.
Again, how come there are so many unconfident drivers on the road when the test can be so harsh. Sounds like you were treated unfairly there mate and would come a cropper under my new rules I failed 4 times, each for what I interpreted as trivial or grey areas. I'd been driving and learning for around 2 years and wasn't bothered about passing my test in a rush, so I gained quite a lot of experience. I'd end up as a chauffeur for my dad's driving laziness.
Fail 1 - Moved into the right hand lane at the end of a dual carriageway approaching a right turn on a roundabout. I did this when the roundabout was in sight (say 250m), whereas the instructor said this was dangerous (empty road) and I should have done so at the 1 mile point - at which point I felt I would have been more of a nuisance.
Fail 2 - Didn't cross busy traffic (turning right) when a still moving (15-20mph) Transit flashed its lights manically at me. I maintained that he was (according to the Highway Code) making me aware of his presence. Failed for Hesitation
Fail 3 - Went when a stationary car flashed me to give me right of way at a junction. I was failed for assuming right of way.
Fail 4 - An elderly person was stood in the middle of the road as I turned around a corner in a town back-street. I stopped to give him way, at which point he retreated backwards to the pavement. Failed for not letting him cross (this confused me)
I passed at attempt 5 with 3 minors (changed driving instructor after test #4), and I'd maintain that the constant frustration of failing for things that I'd just not been taught/were trivial made me a better driver. Plenty of lads I knew had passed 1st time at 17 and proceeded to have several lucky-to-be-alive accidents within their first 12 months of driving.
The problem is that the driving test doesn't actually test real life driving accurately, and can serve to give people an inaccurate sense of confidence. Driving tests would be better served with a period of black box monitoring over a 'probation period', in my opinion.
Good evidence would be from some attitudes in the black-box thread.
Been driving well over 10 years now, just to add.
The test should be about driving not about whether some old duffer can't decide which way to cross. You didn't run him down so you should have passed. I remember being worried about just such happenings on my test as I knew that was all it took to fail.
I knew how to drive as I had been driving solidly for 2 years or more and I knew the highway code backwards plus I was a confident driver who already had a motorbike licence yet I knew it could all hinge on whether the examiner thought that I should obey a flashed headlight or ignore it.
The drivers with licences that shouldn't have them are like the woman who I paralleled parked in front of the other day and left about 3 meters between the back of my car and the front of hers. There was nothing behind her.
As I walked away she shouted at me that I had blocked her in. I suggested that she use the steering wheel. She had no idea that the steering wheel could be turned more than a few degrees and thus took about 10 backwards and forwards moves and with me giving hand signals to get out of a space big enough for a 10 tonne truck. She was in a Nissan Micra.
How the fek did she pass the test????
croyde said:
Again, how come there are so many unconfident drivers on the road when the test can be so harsh. Sounds like you were treated unfairly there mate and would come a cropper under my new rules
The test should be about driving not about whether some old duffer can't decide which way to cross. You didn't run him down so you should have passed. I remember being worried about just such happenings on my test as I knew that was all it took to fail.
I knew how to drive as I had been driving solidly for 2 years or more and I knew the highway code backwards plus I was a confident driver who already had a motorbike licence yet I knew it could all hinge on whether the examiner thought that I should obey a flashed headlight or ignore it.
The drivers with licences that shouldn't have them are like the woman who I paralleled parked in front of the other day and left about 3 meters between the back of my car and the front of hers. There was nothing behind her.
As I walked away she shouted at me that I had blocked her in. I suggested that she use the steering wheel. She had no idea that the steering wheel could be turned more than a few degrees and thus took about 10 backwards and forwards moves and with me giving hand signals to get out of a space big enough for a 10 tonne truck. She was in a Nissan Micra.
How the fek did she pass the test????
In some ways, it was sod's law. In others, the experience and skills I learnt as a result of failing my test each time (as each fail is something new learnt, in a way) probably could in some way have saved my life through avoiding potential incidents and the like over the years.The test should be about driving not about whether some old duffer can't decide which way to cross. You didn't run him down so you should have passed. I remember being worried about just such happenings on my test as I knew that was all it took to fail.
I knew how to drive as I had been driving solidly for 2 years or more and I knew the highway code backwards plus I was a confident driver who already had a motorbike licence yet I knew it could all hinge on whether the examiner thought that I should obey a flashed headlight or ignore it.
The drivers with licences that shouldn't have them are like the woman who I paralleled parked in front of the other day and left about 3 meters between the back of my car and the front of hers. There was nothing behind her.
As I walked away she shouted at me that I had blocked her in. I suggested that she use the steering wheel. She had no idea that the steering wheel could be turned more than a few degrees and thus took about 10 backwards and forwards moves and with me giving hand signals to get out of a space big enough for a 10 tonne truck. She was in a Nissan Micra.
How the fek did she pass the test????
A lad I knew was so crap that I went in the back of the car whilst his dad taught him to drive, and he ended up in a hedge. I was surprised as anyone when he passed his test first time...
Anyway, he also got 'given' passplus with doing the training, as he knew someone who knew someone etc.
Think he had and caused about half a dozen accidents before he was 21.
Strange isn't it? I just don't think that the driving test can be in the modern age without a system similar to the bike test and more? (i.e. capacity limitations and so on)
I'm doing the weekly commute up the M40 to the Leamington Spa area.
The M40 is a fantastic motorway to be driving north on with about 20% of the traffic I've been used to for the last 10 years on the M4 into London.
However, the light volumes of traffic do kind of shine a bright beacon on the MLMs and Elephant racers that I'd never really noticed on the M4.
But so long as they stay out of the right hand lane I don't care and just sail passed them. It's only occasionally that a MLM and an elephant racer align to hold the rest of us up.
The M40 is a fantastic motorway to be driving north on with about 20% of the traffic I've been used to for the last 10 years on the M4 into London.
However, the light volumes of traffic do kind of shine a bright beacon on the MLMs and Elephant racers that I'd never really noticed on the M4.
But so long as they stay out of the right hand lane I don't care and just sail passed them. It's only occasionally that a MLM and an elephant racer align to hold the rest of us up.
cj2013 said:
In some ways, it was sod's law. In others, the experience and skills I learnt as a result of failing my test each time (as each fail is something new learnt, in a way) probably could in some way have saved my life through avoiding potential incidents and the like over the years.
A lad I knew was so crap that I went in the back of the car whilst his dad taught him to drive, and he ended up in a hedge. I was surprised as anyone when he passed his test first time...
Anyway, he also got 'given' passplus with doing the training, as he knew someone who knew someone etc.
Think he had and caused about half a dozen accidents before he was 21.
Strange isn't it? I just don't think that the driving test can be in the modern age without a system similar to the bike test and more? (i.e. capacity limitations and so on)
True. My first car, the one I drove for two years before taking the test, had about 30 bhp A lad I knew was so crap that I went in the back of the car whilst his dad taught him to drive, and he ended up in a hedge. I was surprised as anyone when he passed his test first time...
Anyway, he also got 'given' passplus with doing the training, as he knew someone who knew someone etc.
Think he had and caused about half a dozen accidents before he was 21.
Strange isn't it? I just don't think that the driving test can be in the modern age without a system similar to the bike test and more? (i.e. capacity limitations and so on)
Mind you 2 days after passing I got moved from motorbikes to vans at my London courier company. Now that was a steep learning curve.
jkh112 said:
JonRB said:
It always amuses me when I talk to people who proudly say they passed first time and are thus good drivers, yet have never done a jot of driver training since.
It always amuses me when I hear people equate the amount of driver training an individual has taken to the driving ability of that individual.It was along the lines of the proverb "The fool thinks that he has learned everything, whilst the wise man knows there is always more to learn". Passing first time and then thinking that's it; there is no more to learn, is rather a foolish thing to think.
Good evening chaps.
We arrived safe and sound after stoping for a 'toilet' break at the services and me insisting on continuing.
I did point out a few people sitting in the middle lane cursing them to which he laughed.
This fella is in his thirties and has only been driving a few years and this was his first attempt at any kind of distance. Something he never mentioned when he offered to drive.
Its safe to say I will drive the return leg.
I totally agree with comments on here in that its the driving instructors not educating their students to the correct rules of the road. I was correctly taught how to drive on a motorway when I passed in 2005. Not that long ago by any stretch.
We arrived safe and sound after stoping for a 'toilet' break at the services and me insisting on continuing.
I did point out a few people sitting in the middle lane cursing them to which he laughed.
This fella is in his thirties and has only been driving a few years and this was his first attempt at any kind of distance. Something he never mentioned when he offered to drive.
Its safe to say I will drive the return leg.
I totally agree with comments on here in that its the driving instructors not educating their students to the correct rules of the road. I was correctly taught how to drive on a motorway when I passed in 2005. Not that long ago by any stretch.
Triumph Man said:
It seems younger people now are awful drivers, especially on the motorway. I am only 23, but I see loads of people my age or slightly younger either looking completely terrified, or completely distracted.
Only because they have awful teachers. Crap in crap out. Take this kid for example, he is in a company car with a senior member of staff who is responsible for his training and that teacher hasn't the balls to educate him on how to get from B to C and back in a professional manner.
soad said:
"Pah! I read in The News of the World that the inside lane is for lower class people and lorry drivers. It's full of degenerates, I'm not going there. The people behind me can wait." 
http://www.howmotorwayswork.co.uk/arguments.htm
I like that, particularly the bit at the bottom:http://www.howmotorwayswork.co.uk/arguments.htm
"try the highway code, it's a cracking read: "Rule 238: You should drive in the left-hand lane if the road ahead is clear. Return to the left-hand lane once you have overtaken all the vehicles or if you are delaying traffic behind you". Perhaps we should brand it with hot irons on the foreheads of the ignorant?"
JimbobVFR said:
I still don't get why you didn't say anything. Surely if you're training him in something else for work you have suitable skills to getbtyhe message across? If he doesn't know any better he's not going to change his behaviour unless he gets given a reason to.
I agree - the lack of direct instructionIs very strange.
DaveH23 said:
Good evening chaps.
We arrived safe and sound after stoping for a 'toilet' break at the services and me insisting on continuing.
I did point out a few people sitting in the middle lane cursing them to which he laughed.
This fella is in his thirties and has only been driving a few years and this was his first attempt at any kind of distance. Something he never mentioned when he offered to drive.
Its safe to say I will drive the return leg.
I totally agree with comments on here in that its the driving instructors not educating their students to the correct rules of the road. I was correctly taught how to drive on a motorway when I passed in 2005. Not that long ago by any stretch.
I reckon that he laughed because he didn't know how else to react. We arrived safe and sound after stoping for a 'toilet' break at the services and me insisting on continuing.
I did point out a few people sitting in the middle lane cursing them to which he laughed.
This fella is in his thirties and has only been driving a few years and this was his first attempt at any kind of distance. Something he never mentioned when he offered to drive.
Its safe to say I will drive the return leg.
I totally agree with comments on here in that its the driving instructors not educating their students to the correct rules of the road. I was correctly taught how to drive on a motorway when I passed in 2005. Not that long ago by any stretch.
He didn't know what you meant I'll bet.
Hoofy said:
Read him this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22770064
When was the stock photo for that story taken? Some time in 1987, judging by the cars in shot...
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