Utilising the power on a VERY powerful car...

[Djtemeka]

If you think a 2.0 is a crap GT car then jump on an unfaired bike and go riding at speed for 8 hours.
Trust me, a 1.0 corsa will be heaven compared to that!

[Pan Pan]

I have been lucky enough to drive a reasonable number of different types of car, including supercars, and have been known to laugh like a drain, when punting a supercar for the sheer joy of its performance. But surely cars must be a case of horses for courses. For some of the driving I have to do a petrol engine car, would be a complete pain in the rear, (possibly even more so in a big engined one, because of having to stop every few hundred miles to re fill the tank/s,) Continental service areas can often be rammed with vehicles queuing for fuel, and given that one cannot go far past speed limits in most countries these days, waiting for ages to get to a pump just compounds the problem of making progress.
The diesel I use, is barely above idling rpm at motorway speeds and a bit beyond, so the engine is virtually inaudible, (as noted before the heater fan on a low setting makes more noise than the engine) and I have thousand mile plus range on a tankful, so going into / through countries where fuel supplies may not be as reliable as one would like is also not a problem.
I have been in such situations where the enormous range of the cars I use, for work has negated the problem, but had I been in petrol engine car with pitiful range, I would have been bricking it
not least because of the possibility of having to leave an out of fuel petrol car (especially a nice one) in some very dodgy places.
When I want to go fast, I just use the Seven because it does not insulate the driver from speed, as big engined, heavy, sound proofed cars often do, where one must travel at speeds far higher than the posted limits to extract any sort of speed sensation from them.
like I said horses for courses, especially where range, practicality, running costs, space, load lugging ability, and quietness form part of the requirements.

[bennyboysvuk]

Pan Pan said:

getawayturtle said:

jamieduff1981 said:

That's perfect right up until you come up behind a modern diesel which is "well driven" in that rage-inducing manner of driving at the speed limit on the straights but slowing gently and early to speeds which remove any sensation of lateral G from corners. When you catch one of these, they will DEFINATELY ruin your drive, and you need to overtake although on the sort of roads you're likely to be on opportunities may be on the tighter side and you need grunt to get past. Whereas something like an MG Midget was great fun up until this point, the drive is now completely ruined and there's no hope of redemption because someone in front is controlling your speed.

A brilliant point. I loved my mk1 MX5, but had many drives ruined by someone dithering about on a tight twisty road. I'm in a 326hp Impreza now which I'm still getting to grips with, but I can get my overtakes done so quickly and just keep pressing on, it's lovely. I know the two cars require totally different driving styles, but I'm able to enjoy the Impreza a lot more because other people can't ruin the fun.

This is like turning into your favourite twisty driving road, in your favourite driving car, going around the first bend and finding a Nissan Micra puttering along there

This is part of the reason why I went back to bikes after a brief spell in a VX220 Turbo. The bike can overtake in so many situations where the VX couldn't.

[HoHoHo]

I have an F10 M5, same engine as the M6 the OP had a go in and the biggest problem isn't the fact you can't use the power, you can everyday providing you're careful.

The biggest problem in weather such as we have currently is simply putting the power down.

I've got my winters on which offer superior grip to my 20's with SS's on and in ste weather if you are anything other than very careful, feathering the throttle the traction control light is like your Christmas tree lights but flashing more frequently. You simply look like a tt with the car hopping around and I try not to look like one of those!

Other days it's not about going 190+ or whatever the top speed is, its about the delivery and package and having that extra grunt when you might need it.

As was once quoted to me....

'Too much horsepower is never enough'

[Pan Pan]

HoHoHo said:

I have an F10 M5, same engine as the M6 the OP had a go in and the biggest problem isn't the fact you can't use the power, you can everyday providing you're careful.

The biggest problem in weather such as we have currently is simply putting the power down.

I've got my winters on which offer superior grip to my 20's with SS's on and in ste weather if you are anything other than very careful, feathering the throttle the traction control light is like your Christmas tree lights but flashing more frequently. You simply look like a tt with the car hopping around and I try not to look like one of those!

Other days it's not about going 190+ or whatever the top speed is, its about the delivery and package and having that extra grunt when you might need it.

As was once quoted to me....

'Too much horsepower is never enough'

Being lucky enough to have several cars, I can relate to this, For me my 7 is for fun driving only on fine days, and holidays, so I don't need to, and, rarely take it out in the wet.
Also it has no driver aids whatsoever, so punting it along in the wet can be described as an interesting learning opportunity, where at motorway limits, even a light extra touch on the right hand pedal can have the rears spinning up, and the rear of the car moving sideways. easy to catch, but interesting nevertheless

[andburg]

as the new P1 owner in Dallas has now proved.....you need to be careful!

[Randomthoughts]

crosseyedlion said:

You missed my point entirely, the fact is most car's aren't those listed. Look at the cars on he average British commute or supermarket car park.

1 in 100 being golf mk5 r32 performance or faster is a about right. And having driven 3 of the diesels listed and 4 of the hatches listed, the ones I've driven wouldn't beat the golf in a straight line.

And saying you're bored with something when it was my first comment on it is one hell of an attitude.

Every other car on the road is a GTI or a VXR round my way. I'm sat next to a (office block) car park which has a good 50% ratio on same/faster than an R32.

Let's be clear. Very powerful cars start at around 350bhp, or weigh the same as a packet of fags. They aren't Dullfs with a mediocre power output. Don't take it the wrong way, it's still a perfectly pleasant place to be, but it's not a 'very powerful car'.

Edited by Randomthoughts on Thursday 27th November 09:03

[skyrover]

Randomthoughts said:

Every other car on the road is a GTI or a VXR round my way. I'm sat next to a (office block) car park which has a good 50% ratio on same/faster than an R32.

Let's be clear. Very powerful cars start at around 350bhp, or weigh the same as a packet of fags. They aren't Dullfs with a mediocre power output. Don't take it the wrong way, it's still a perfectly pleasant place to be, but it's not a 'very powerful car'.

Edited by Randomthoughts on Thursday 27th November 09:03

It's an interesting school of though, what defines a "very powerful" car.

When you consider your average mummy taking her kids to school in the USA/Canada drives a Toyota sienna or Honda oddysee MPV, with fitted with 3.5 V6 engines that produce 260hp and will do 0-60 in 6 seconds.



Meanwhile the dad on his way to work will probably be driving an F-150 pickup truck with either a 385hp V8 or 370hp Turbo V6 as standard.



These are not considered particularly powerful or especially fast vehicles.

[StottyEvo]

HoHoHo said:

I have an F10 M5, same engine as the M6 the OP had a go in and the biggest problem isn't the fact you can't use the power, you can everyday providing you're careful.

The biggest problem in weather such as we have currently is simply putting the power down.

A women I work with sold her M5 for this specific reason, whenever pulling out of junctions in the wet the TC was kicking in and it annoyed her greatly. Shes always had high powered cars so drives quickly, but shes 50, not exactly a yobbo... She traded the M5 in for an M3!

[Zod]

BlueEyedBoy said:

I just rode home from work on some a and b roads on my bike in heavy rain, in pretty much any car I would have went faster as visibility through the visor was appauling and the rodes slippy.

All this talk that bikes are faster is generally talking about nice dry conditions. I ride my bike pretty much all year round, and prefer my car over the bike any day of the week.

I also have a Z4M (and also had previously a 4.5 Cerbera) and don't / didn't struggle at all using most of the power regularly in 1st to 3rd.

BIkes are tremendously quick in acceleration, but they often give way to me on the Yorkshire Dales B roads, because the conditions and the frequency of the corners mean they just can't keep up.

[E65Ross]

StottyEvo said:

A women I work with sold her M5 for this specific reason, whenever pulling out of junctions in the wet the TC was kicking in and it annoyed her greatly. Shes always had high powered cars so drives quickly, but shes 50, not exactly a yobbo... She traded the M5 in for an M3!

In this case it really is a case of just not pressing the throttle as much.

On 295 section rubber and partial throttle there shouldn't be any more wheelspin than in any other rwd car. If you can get away without spinning in a car with 150bhp, you can do the same in something with more power if you are a bit more gentle with the throttle. I found with the E92 M3 and the F13 M6 the more gentle throttle map settings are superb for this. On the aggressive settings it can be a bit too much, just feather the throttle and it gives a noticeable amount of poke.

[shoestring7]

Zod said:

BlueEyedBoy said:

I just rode home from work on some a and b roads on my bike in heavy rain, in pretty much any car I would have went faster as visibility through the visor was appauling and the rodes slippy.

All this talk that bikes are faster is generally talking about nice dry conditions. I ride my bike pretty much all year round, and prefer my car over the bike any day of the week.

I also have a Z4M (and also had previously a 4.5 Cerbera) and don't / didn't struggle at all using most of the power regularly in 1st to 3rd.

BIkes are tremendously quick in acceleration, but they often give way to me on the Yorkshire Dales B roads, because the conditions and the frequency of the corners mean they just can't keep up.

I think you'll actually find they 'give way' because no biker likes to have some nutter in a car on their tail.

SS7

[Zod]

shoestring7 said:

Zod said:

BlueEyedBoy said:

I just rode home from work on some a and b roads on my bike in heavy rain, in pretty much any car I would have went faster as visibility through the visor was appauling and the rodes slippy.

All this talk that bikes are faster is generally talking about nice dry conditions. I ride my bike pretty much all year round, and prefer my car over the bike any day of the week.

I also have a Z4M (and also had previously a 4.5 Cerbera) and don't / didn't struggle at all using most of the power regularly in 1st to 3rd.

BIkes are tremendously quick in acceleration, but they often give way to me on the Yorkshire Dales B roads, because the conditions and the frequency of the corners mean they just can't keep up.

I think you'll actually find they 'give way' because no biker likes to have some nutter in a car on their tail.

SS7

I hope your tongue is in your cheek and this is not a typical PH tt post.

[crosseyedlion]

Randomthoughts said:

crosseyedlion said:

You missed my point entirely, the fact is most car's aren't those listed. Look at the cars on he average British commute or supermarket car park.

1 in 100 being golf mk5 r32 performance or faster is a about right. And having driven 3 of the diesels listed and 4 of the hatches listed, the ones I've driven wouldn't beat the golf in a straight line.

And saying you're bored with something when it was my first comment on it is one hell of an attitude.

Every other car on the road is a GTI or a VXR round my way. I'm sat next to a (office block) car park which has a good 50% ratio on same/faster than an R32.

Let's be clear. Very powerful cars start at around 350bhp, or weigh the same as a packet of fags. They aren't Dullfs with a mediocre power output. Don't take it the wrong way, it's still a perfectly pleasant place to be, but it's not a 'very powerful car'.

Edited by Randomthoughts on Thursday 27th November 09:03

Firstly, I wont take it the wrong way - I don't own a golf, my own transport is quicker. An office building isn't really representative of most vehicles on the road. There's plenty that look powerful around me, but most of them are powered by diesel.

Never once did I say it was a powerful car, I agree that it isn't a very powerful car. It will, however - beat most cars you see on the road.

May I ask what do you drive?

[xRIEx]

Zod said:

shoestring7 said:

Zod said:

BlueEyedBoy said:

I just rode home from work on some a and b roads on my bike in heavy rain, in pretty much any car I would have went faster as visibility through the visor was appauling and the rodes slippy.

All this talk that bikes are faster is generally talking about nice dry conditions. I ride my bike pretty much all year round, and prefer my car over the bike any day of the week.

I also have a Z4M (and also had previously a 4.5 Cerbera) and don't / didn't struggle at all using most of the power regularly in 1st to 3rd.

BIkes are tremendously quick in acceleration, but they often give way to me on the Yorkshire Dales B roads, because the conditions and the frequency of the corners mean they just can't keep up.

I think you'll actually find they 'give way' because no biker likes to have some nutter in a car on their tail.

SS7

I hope your tongue is in your cheek and this is not a typical PH tt post.

Many a true word spoken in jest.

When I rode, if there was someone quicker than me behind who got too close I'd let them past; in the car, if I'm quicker than a bike in front of me, I'll leave a reasonable stopping distance. Going into the back of a car is annoying for all parties, going into the back of a bike could be fatal for the rider.

[braddo]

E65Ross said:

MC Bodge said:

I the context of long distance motorway driving, a big, thirsty engine is fairly pointless, though!

Except it isn't though. I recently did 500 miles in a day in my 745i.

.....

You missed the bit about "long distance motorway driving". You may have a point in what you said in your post, but it misses the point that MC Bodge was making.

Especially in Europe where the motorways are often less busy and the distances greater, big thirsty engines can be a bit pointless.

Needing to put fuel in the car at every rest stop gets annoying. It makes the rest stop less restful and slows your average journey speed. The time, hassle and expense all add up significantly on big trips (e.g. south of France, Alps, Italy etc) so I absolutely agree with people that say a 2.0 diesel can do the job admirably.

Personally, I've done such journeys in a 300hp 4.3L V8 that averages about 25mpg on the motorway. For me, it's worth it for the extra performance and noise and the fun when I get to my destination. If I were doing such trips more than once or twice a year, however, i'd consider changing to something a bit more efficient.

[crosseyedlion]

braddo said:

E65Ross said:

MC Bodge said:

I the context of long distance motorway driving, a big, thirsty engine is fairly pointless, though!

Except it isn't though. I recently did 500 miles in a day in my 745i.

.....

You missed the bit about "long distance motorway driving". You may have a point in what you said in your post, but it misses the point that MC Bodge was making.

Especially in Europe where the motorways are often less busy and the distances greater, big thirsty engines can be a bit pointless.

Needing to put fuel in the car at every rest stop gets annoying. It makes the rest stop less restful and slows your average journey speed. The time, hassle and expense all add up significantly on big trips (e.g. south of France, Alps, Italy etc) so I absolutely agree with people that say a 2.0 diesel can do the job admirably.

Personally, I've done such journeys in a 300hp 4.3L V8 that averages about 25mpg on the motorway. For me, it's worth it for the extra performance and noise and the fun when I get to my destination. If I were doing such trips more than once or twice a year, however, i'd consider changing to something a bit more efficient.

I was doing 500 miles between stops on my summer jaunt...

Fuel economy wise on the motorway it was the same as the 2.0 Clio I had before it.

Tank size and economy are not tied to engine size.

[mikerons88]

braddo said:

You missed the bit about "long distance motorway driving". You may have a point in what you said in your post, but it misses the point that MC Bodge was making.

Especially in Europe where the motorways are often less busy and the distances greater, big thirsty engines can be a bit pointless.

Needing to put fuel in the car at every rest stop gets annoying. It makes the rest stop less restful and slows your average journey speed. The time, hassle and expense all add up significantly on big trips (e.g. south of France, Alps, Italy etc) so I absolutely agree with people that say a 2.0 diesel can do the job admirably.

Personally, I've done such journeys in a 300hp 4.3L V8 that averages about 25mpg on the motorway. For me, it's worth it for the extra performance and noise and the fun when I get to my destination. If I were doing such trips more than once or twice a year, however, i'd consider changing to something a bit more efficient.

5mins filling up is little issue every fews when you weight this up against the smile of the effortless power / noise. Smells per mile I say.

[plenty]

DKL said:

Isn't it a case of what you use them for? In a daily, through traffic, on congested roads, its pointless.
Your power use is limited by your surroundings.
If you are lucky enough to have traffic free roads and the time to use them then a bit more power would be great. Maybe the north york moors, northumberland or the highlands and being prepared to get up early to use them?

Pan Pan said:

I find supercars are not really fit for the environment they will be most often used in, of course for the odd occasion where the roads are clear, and there are no cameras, or speed patrols they will be outstanding, but if one reflects on the reality of driving on the roads in this country at least, those times will likely be few and far between.

There’s a time and a place for everything. If you’re willing to put some effort in, it’s still entirely possible to enjoy power responsibly on the road. The antidote to clogged roads and proliferating cameras is “event” driving, with pre-planning to minimise their impact.

[anonymous-user]

E65Ross said:

StottyEvo said:

A women I work with sold her M5 for this specific reason, whenever pulling out of junctions in the wet the TC was kicking in and it annoyed her greatly. Shes always had high powered cars so drives quickly, but shes 50, not exactly a yobbo... She traded the M5 in for an M3!

In this case it really is a case of just not pressing the throttle as much.

On 295 section rubber and partial throttle there shouldn't be any more wheelspin than in any other rwd car. If you can get away without spinning in a car with 150bhp, you can do the same in something with more power if you are a bit more gentle with the throttle. I found with the E92 M3 and the F13 M6 the more gentle throttle map settings are superb for this. On the aggressive settings it can be a bit too much, just feather the throttle and it gives a noticeable amount of poke.

It's worth noting that powerful RWD cars need progressive throttle inputs to "find" all the traction they can develop. If you just jump on the throttle hard, when there is no rearwards weight transfer (because the car is not accelerating) they will immediately spin the wheels (or flash the DSC light). But feed the throttle in over the period of about a second, the car sits back on the drive wheels and will take pretty much full throttle even in the wet (potholes/whitelines/diesel/leaves/smalldogs permitting of course!)

Most people who i drive with, in powerful cars who complain of a "lack of traction" are there own undoing............