Utilising the power on a VERY powerful car...
Discussion
TurboHatchback said:
I've thought for a long time that there really isn't any point in having more than about 200bhp per ton on the road. I almost never use the whole mighty 150bhp/ton in my Golf, quite how you would ever have space to use 500+bhp on UK roads I have no idea, especially if you plan on keeping your license.
I view myself as lucky to have a fleet average above 200bhp/ton: there's no point, other than the fact that it's bloody good fun to have performance on tap when you want it, and using the power doesn't necessarily mean speeding.SuperchargedVR6 said:
Who looks back on their life and says: "I wish I owned less powerful cars, I wish I had less sex, I wish I partied less, I wish I had a smaller house, I wish I had less money" ?
No one does.
So you've got a Veyron, which according to PH wisdom, can't be enjoyed to the full on public roads because it smashes some de facto p/w ratio. So what? I've got a 1000 watt RMS domestic AV system, which I can't use to the full. Does that mean I should sell it and by a 10 watt stereo because I can play it louder more often?
The whole point of huge power reserves is effortless performance. You can hear and feel the difference between something made to do a specific job and no more, and something made to do a job and THEN SOME. It's the quality of the experience. 1000lbft of thrust from the Veyron I would wager is more satisfying than wringing a VTEC's neck for it's 145lbft of modest, thrashy thrust.
You can get around Venice in a dingy with a 10hp outboard, or you can get around Venice in in a Riva Aquarama. I bet the Italians don't debate whether an 800hp twin V8 powered speedboat can ever be used to it's full performance around Venice. It just isn't the point.
Personally speaking, the more power in reserve, the better. There are too many moronic zombies on the roads these days and the quicker I can under / over take them and be on my way, the better.
Good argument. I suppose one counter with that analogy would be: would you still enjoy a 1000 W system living in a set of flats where using anything over 10 would get a noise complaint? Or would you wonder if you'd have been better off with a pair of headphones?No one does.
So you've got a Veyron, which according to PH wisdom, can't be enjoyed to the full on public roads because it smashes some de facto p/w ratio. So what? I've got a 1000 watt RMS domestic AV system, which I can't use to the full. Does that mean I should sell it and by a 10 watt stereo because I can play it louder more often?
The whole point of huge power reserves is effortless performance. You can hear and feel the difference between something made to do a specific job and no more, and something made to do a job and THEN SOME. It's the quality of the experience. 1000lbft of thrust from the Veyron I would wager is more satisfying than wringing a VTEC's neck for it's 145lbft of modest, thrashy thrust.
You can get around Venice in a dingy with a 10hp outboard, or you can get around Venice in in a Riva Aquarama. I bet the Italians don't debate whether an 800hp twin V8 powered speedboat can ever be used to it's full performance around Venice. It just isn't the point.
Personally speaking, the more power in reserve, the better. There are too many moronic zombies on the roads these days and the quicker I can under / over take them and be on my way, the better.
Edited by SuperchargedVR6 on Tuesday 25th November 14:23
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Who looks back on their life and says: "I wish I owned less powerful cars, I wish I had less sex, I wish I partied less, I wish I had a smaller house, I wish I had less money" ?
No one does.
So you've got a Veyron, which according to PH wisdom, can't be enjoyed to the full on public roads because it smashes some de facto p/w ratio. So what? I've got a 1000 watt RMS domestic AV system, which I can't use to the full. Does that mean I should sell it and by a 10 watt stereo because I can play it louder more often?
The whole point of huge power reserves is effortless performance. You can hear and feel the difference between something made to do a specific job and no more, and something made to do a job and THEN SOME. It's the quality of the experience. 1000lbft of thrust from the Veyron I would wager is more satisfying than wringing a VTEC's neck for it's 145lbft of modest, thrashy thrust.
You can get around Venice in a dingy with a 10hp outboard, or you can get around Venice in in a Riva Aquarama. I bet the Italians don't debate whether an 800hp twin V8 powered speedboat can ever be used to it's full performance around Venice. It just isn't the point.
Personally speaking, the more power in reserve, the better. There are too many moronic zombies on the roads these days and the quicker I can under / over take them and be on my way, the better.
I completely disagree. I find it satisfying to become a master of the machine - to find it's limits and drive to them. There is of course a balance in this but I find it quite unrewarding to drive something with peformance so far out of reach of reasonable use on the public roads.No one does.
So you've got a Veyron, which according to PH wisdom, can't be enjoyed to the full on public roads because it smashes some de facto p/w ratio. So what? I've got a 1000 watt RMS domestic AV system, which I can't use to the full. Does that mean I should sell it and by a 10 watt stereo because I can play it louder more often?
The whole point of huge power reserves is effortless performance. You can hear and feel the difference between something made to do a specific job and no more, and something made to do a job and THEN SOME. It's the quality of the experience. 1000lbft of thrust from the Veyron I would wager is more satisfying than wringing a VTEC's neck for it's 145lbft of modest, thrashy thrust.
You can get around Venice in a dingy with a 10hp outboard, or you can get around Venice in in a Riva Aquarama. I bet the Italians don't debate whether an 800hp twin V8 powered speedboat can ever be used to it's full performance around Venice. It just isn't the point.
Personally speaking, the more power in reserve, the better. There are too many moronic zombies on the roads these days and the quicker I can under / over take them and be on my way, the better.
Edited by SuperchargedVR6 on Tuesday 25th November 14:23
I must have read hundreds of justifications over the years such as "In an emergency I need the extra acceleration", or "there are country roads where you can get a quick blip" etc., but the fact is, if you are not going to track the car, there is not a lot opportunity to use anything like the potential of the car. Its a lot more than just power. A car that is designed to handle well at 150-200 MPH is simply dawdling at 90 assuming a moderately competent driver.
I had a M6 that was dynoed at Hartge at 535BHP, and in some ways it illustrates the dilemma. I took it up to 200MPH on the Autobahn where it was mind-blowing, and also to the Nurburgring, where it was plenty powerful but too heavy and under braked. I brought it back to Canada, ( I have other cars) and rarely drove it over 100MPH after that, which was nothing special. I used it as a weekender for cruising down the New York, but never close to its capabilities. So I sold it after six years with 18,000 miles on it.
Thus, it was not good for a track, and not legal to be used properly on the road.
From that point on, I only bought cars that were going to be tracked rather than road going GTs. I understand that people buy for status, beauty, comfort etc, and those are all very valid reasons. For me personally, I now only buy cars with capabilities I will actually use, and emergency acceleration or a guilty few blips on a country road are not for me. I can very well understand why a checkable car like a Caterham with less power would be perfect for the latter use.
I had a M6 that was dynoed at Hartge at 535BHP, and in some ways it illustrates the dilemma. I took it up to 200MPH on the Autobahn where it was mind-blowing, and also to the Nurburgring, where it was plenty powerful but too heavy and under braked. I brought it back to Canada, ( I have other cars) and rarely drove it over 100MPH after that, which was nothing special. I used it as a weekender for cruising down the New York, but never close to its capabilities. So I sold it after six years with 18,000 miles on it.
Thus, it was not good for a track, and not legal to be used properly on the road.
From that point on, I only bought cars that were going to be tracked rather than road going GTs. I understand that people buy for status, beauty, comfort etc, and those are all very valid reasons. For me personally, I now only buy cars with capabilities I will actually use, and emergency acceleration or a guilty few blips on a country road are not for me. I can very well understand why a checkable car like a Caterham with less power would be perfect for the latter use.
Only done it a couple of times in the GTR (640hp) redlined, through 1st, 2nd, 3rd in manual, on a carefully selected well known to me road in the right conditions with no one around....(honest...). Have to be careful unleashing it all. Although it willl be +200bhp next summer ready for Le Mans (not racing 
, driving down there). Difficult on UK roads but can be done in some places with care in Europe.. 90% of the time I'm off boost, dawdling.
, driving down there). Difficult on UK roads but can be done in some places with care in Europe.. 90% of the time I'm off boost, dawdling.
Mine has over 800hp but, other than a brief squirt, hardly ever drive it flat out on the road. Much better to wind the window down and burble along, enjoying the noise. Also, 100mph+ wheel spin in the wet tempers enthusiasm somewhat. Roads are not the place to go fast - too much stuff that can go horribly wrong.
I've not owned any very powerful cars, but i've owned some quite powerful ones, and the feeling you get from being able to noticeably accelerate with a gentle throttle squeeze and really start to shift while still at half throttle to me is so much more satisfying than doing the exact same thing with a lot of throttle in a much less powerful car.
If you don't get the same feeling, then very powerful car are probably not for you
If you don't get the same feeling, then very powerful car are probably not for you
Isn't it a case of what you use them for? In a daily, through traffic, on congested roads, its pointless.
Your power use is limited by your surroundings.
If you are lucky enough to have traffic free roads and the time to use them then a bit more power would be great. Maybe the north york moors, northumberland or the highlands and being prepared to get up early to use them?
I found that 500bhp for a 10 mile trip to work a complete waste of time and that even at the weekends the roads I drove at the times I drove them were not compatible with anything other than a quick blast very occasionally.
A complete waste of time to the point where a car I had wanted for ages and looked the dogs danglies was a real disappointment in the real world.
Your power use is limited by your surroundings.
If you are lucky enough to have traffic free roads and the time to use them then a bit more power would be great. Maybe the north york moors, northumberland or the highlands and being prepared to get up early to use them?
I found that 500bhp for a 10 mile trip to work a complete waste of time and that even at the weekends the roads I drove at the times I drove them were not compatible with anything other than a quick blast very occasionally.
A complete waste of time to the point where a car I had wanted for ages and looked the dogs danglies was a real disappointment in the real world.
I think this is one of those where we end up splitting hairs.
First and foremost, I'm a petrol head and I like cars and bikes. I enjoy very fast cars and bikes but also basic, simple and agile cars and bikes.
Current quickish car is a na 911, I use all of its performance quite regularly in the 50 - 100mph range. It's excellent fun but an 1100 ohv mk3 escort on 145 tyres is also a laugh. I don't really get any significant pleasure from squirting the 911 down a slip road but i do have fun getting it into and out of corners etc. My current bike is stupidly quick and the performance becomes a bigger part of the experience, managing the power becomes a key part of a spirited ride. But, 125s can be brilliant fun trying to maintain as much speed as possible through the corners.
There are lots of different ways to have fun on a bike or in a car. I think if you're able to explore its full performance a lot of the time is a bit of a red herring. Given the choice, I'll have an early mx5 and a 911 GT2 please.
First and foremost, I'm a petrol head and I like cars and bikes. I enjoy very fast cars and bikes but also basic, simple and agile cars and bikes.
Current quickish car is a na 911, I use all of its performance quite regularly in the 50 - 100mph range. It's excellent fun but an 1100 ohv mk3 escort on 145 tyres is also a laugh. I don't really get any significant pleasure from squirting the 911 down a slip road but i do have fun getting it into and out of corners etc. My current bike is stupidly quick and the performance becomes a bigger part of the experience, managing the power becomes a key part of a spirited ride. But, 125s can be brilliant fun trying to maintain as much speed as possible through the corners.
There are lots of different ways to have fun on a bike or in a car. I think if you're able to explore its full performance a lot of the time is a bit of a red herring. Given the choice, I'll have an early mx5 and a 911 GT2 please.
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