Discussion
Debaser said:
If you like driving, get the BMW.
IMHO I completely disagree with that.I've just replaced a 3 Series with an A4. At no point would I say that one mark had the better over the other in the driving stakes. Perhaps if we were talking about a proper M series car then yes, but for the run of the mill exectutive saloons I would suggest very little between them in outright driving dynamics.
Infact I'd go as far as to say that the Bmw wasnt THAT MUCH better than my wifes current Mazda 6 in the handling department, engine performance aside that is.
And on that note , I'll get my coat.
Edited by BIGYIN1314 on Wednesday 26th November 17:17
BIGYIN1314 said:
Debaser said:
If you like driving, get the BMW.
IMHO I completely disagree with that.I've just replaced a 3 Series with an A4. At no point would I say that one mark had the better over the other in the driving stakes. Perhaps if we were talking about a proper M series car then yes, but for the run of the mill exectutive saloons I would suggest very little between them in outright driving dynamics.
Infact I'd go as far as to say that the Bmw wasnt THAT MUCH better than my wifes current Mazda 6 in the handling department, engine performance aside that is.
And on that note , I'll get my coat.
Edited by BIGYIN1314 on Wednesday 26th November 17:17
RobM77 said:
blade7 said:
RobM77 said:
Yes, the Audi Quattro with winter tyres will be fantastic, but only buy one if you want an Audi Quattro for the other 50 weeks of the year, if you prefer the BMW then buy that and winter tyres really will be absolutely fine and for the rest of the year you'll be in the car you prefer.
The suggestion that the quattro only has an advantage on snow isn't my experience, I was pretty amazed how much quicker my A4 is when pressing on in the wet compared to my old 3 series Coupe. blade7 said:
RobM77 said:
blade7 said:
RobM77 said:
Yes, the Audi Quattro with winter tyres will be fantastic, but only buy one if you want an Audi Quattro for the other 50 weeks of the year, if you prefer the BMW then buy that and winter tyres really will be absolutely fine and for the rest of the year you'll be in the car you prefer.
The suggestion that the quattro only has an advantage on snow isn't my experience, I was pretty amazed how much quicker my A4 is when pressing on in the wet compared to my old 3 series Coupe. blade7 said:
It was your 50 weeks of the year nonsense I focussed on. 
Now I'm even more confused. The quattro will be an advantage in snow given equal tyres, but for the rest of the year (50 weeks), surely it'll be a straight choice between which car the OP prefers? The Quattro will get more traction in the wet, but is that really relevant? Nobody's timing the OP - this is about driving preference isn't it?Edited by blade7 on Wednesday 26th November 21:25
blade7 said:
Apology under consideration. Did you miss the bit where I said the quattro is much quicker in the wet ?
It's not though is it? 99% of people are not Seb Loeb and therefore the average driving style in the wet will not be one at which an RWD car will end up in a tree and a Quattro Audi will end up setting a new fastest stage time. RallyofDiscovery said:
Hi,
after six years of treatment for cancer I am going to buy a car! I was all set on a Skoda Octavia 12 months old - BUT.... people have intervened and are demanding that I get a 'Gentlemens carraige" as I apparently deserve it. So after driving several cars my original choice of low cost to tax and own has gone out of the window! Max milage will be an absolute max of 5000 pa and the car will spend many days undriven. I am 6'6" and 110KGs
My dilemma is, I have identified and driven a BMW 530D SE Touring which is great seems much better to me than the 520D. Extras include Pro Sat nav, Sports gearbox and steering wheel, Head up display, Rear camera, Comfort seats, heated seats, zenons etc on a 2010 60 plate 47,000 miles. My one reservation was the 19" alloys as I have damage to my spine (Hence the SE spec rather than M sport). However, the dealer has agreed to change them to 18" wheels and throw in an extra years warranty.
Just about to go when a friend in the car business suggested I should try an Audi A6 Avant SE 3.0 Quatro. Having checked I can get one for similar money. He tells me the car i have identified would be unusable in snow
Has any unbiased person had experience of both?
Help!
Well done on beating the bastad disease after six years of treatment for cancer I am going to buy a car! I was all set on a Skoda Octavia 12 months old - BUT.... people have intervened and are demanding that I get a 'Gentlemens carraige" as I apparently deserve it. So after driving several cars my original choice of low cost to tax and own has gone out of the window! Max milage will be an absolute max of 5000 pa and the car will spend many days undriven. I am 6'6" and 110KGs
My dilemma is, I have identified and driven a BMW 530D SE Touring which is great seems much better to me than the 520D. Extras include Pro Sat nav, Sports gearbox and steering wheel, Head up display, Rear camera, Comfort seats, heated seats, zenons etc on a 2010 60 plate 47,000 miles. My one reservation was the 19" alloys as I have damage to my spine (Hence the SE spec rather than M sport). However, the dealer has agreed to change them to 18" wheels and throw in an extra years warranty.
Just about to go when a friend in the car business suggested I should try an Audi A6 Avant SE 3.0 Quatro. Having checked I can get one for similar money. He tells me the car i have identified would be unusable in snow
Has any unbiased person had experience of both?
Help!
I went from a E60 BMW to a Quattro A5 , much preferred the feel of the BMW over the numb feeling Audi
BIGYIN1314 said:
IMHO I completely disagree with that.
I've just replaced a 3 Series with an A4. At no point would I say that one mark had the better over the other in the driving stakes. Perhaps if we were talking about a proper M series car then yes, but for the run of the mill exectutive saloons I would suggest very little between them in outright driving dynamics.
Infact I'd go as far as to say that the Bmw wasnt THAT MUCH better than my wifes current Mazda 6 in the handling department, engine performance aside that is.
And on that note , I'll get my coat.
I actually agree with you. I had an A4 for a near 3000 mile driving holiday in the summer while my BMW was being repaired. In this case, we aren't talking "sports" models, but a 2.0 TDI SE Teknik and an F30 320d respectively.I've just replaced a 3 Series with an A4. At no point would I say that one mark had the better over the other in the driving stakes. Perhaps if we were talking about a proper M series car then yes, but for the run of the mill exectutive saloons I would suggest very little between them in outright driving dynamics.
Infact I'd go as far as to say that the Bmw wasnt THAT MUCH better than my wifes current Mazda 6 in the handling department, engine performance aside that is.
And on that note , I'll get my coat.
Edited by BIGYIN1314 on Wednesday 26th November 17:17
Ok, so you can feel the Audi wants to push its nose wide under power when really pushing on, where the BMW is more neutral, but otherwise, there is little in it in the context of daily, legal driving. I actually preferred the Audi's steering. Both are poor with near zero feel, but the weighting was better on the Audi IMHO. The BMW engine is streets ahead in power and economy terms, but the VAG lump is much more refined.
The Audi interior was also a far nicer place to sit, touch and look at. Nicer materials, far superior fit and finish, and generally felt more "special".
An F30 3-series on standard dampers is nothing special at all handling-wise. It's no coincidence IMHO the reviewers who hailed the F30 as some sort of dynamic masterpiece were driving press cars with thousands of pounds worth of carefully ticked options. Nobody to my knowledge ever tested a bog standard one. If they had, and they had tested completely impartially, I can't imagine the car being awarded anything more than an "average" rating for driver enjoyment.
I worked out some time ago that there is a world of difference between the BMWs most people actually buy / lease / drive in the real world, and the handful of models (or option combos) that perpetuate the "Ultimate Driving Machine" image.
Edited by Limpet on Thursday 27th November 08:39
Whatever you get, make it something fun. Test drive everything, under all sorts of conditions (motorway, sweeping A and B roads, some traffic) and see what you think of each car.
If you end up buying a diesel, then just keep in mind that a good long run (you mentioned drives to scotland from kent!) will be a good thing. Mind you, this is true of all engines.
Have you considered a Lexus of some description? Japanese reliability (and I am lead to understand Lexuses...lexi...lexus's....are very reliable and well built) and high levels of comfort and gadgetry. I had a ride in an almost-new (120 miles on the clock) IS250 some years ago, and it was a really nice car to be in.
If you end up buying a diesel, then just keep in mind that a good long run (you mentioned drives to scotland from kent!) will be a good thing. Mind you, this is true of all engines.
Have you considered a Lexus of some description? Japanese reliability (and I am lead to understand Lexuses...lexi...lexus's....are very reliable and well built) and high levels of comfort and gadgetry. I had a ride in an almost-new (120 miles on the clock) IS250 some years ago, and it was a really nice car to be in.
Congrats on the recovery.
k off and buy what you want. Get a chavved up Corsa if it would make you laugh your face off.
But other than that, my vote would be the XF 3.0d S (if diesel was required).
RallyofDiscovery said:
I was all set on a Skoda Octavia 12 months old - BUT.... people have intervened and are demanding that I get a 'Gentlemens carraige" as I apparently deserve it.
Tell them to fk off and buy what you want. Get a chavved up Corsa if it would make you laugh your face off.But other than that, my vote would be the XF 3.0d S (if diesel was required).
Fox- said:
It's not though is it? 99% of people are not Seb Loeb and therefore the average driving style in the wet will not be one at which an RWD car will end up in a tree and a Quattro Audi will end up setting a new fastest stage time.
Except we are no longer in 1993, and so in fact what tends to happen is that the quattro driver underestimates the slipperyness of the road and simply cannot stop when something unexpected occurs (remember 4wd only helps you accelerate in low gears, it hinders everything else!) whereas the rwd car simply starts flashing lots of lights at the driver, who generally backs off. Only a few brave/foolish ones then turn off the DSC and keep driving like loons (and no, they almost certainly don't oversteer backwards off into the scenery these days, as modern bmw understeer as a default)Max_Torque said:
(and no, they almost certainly don't oversteer backwards off into the scenery these days, as modern bmw understeer as a default)
You're not wrong, but just to clarify and expand on that: all road cars, and most racing cars, understeer as their final handling (defined as what happens when taking a flat corner at a steady speed). In actual fact, my Elise had significantly more understeer than any of my BMWs have ever had. However, and this is why the Elise is regarded more highly than BMWs generally are, what happens dynamically on your way into, through and out of a corner is dependent on many factors. Yes, those factors include the chassis setup, but they also incude lots of other factors, including driver input. By saying that the latest generation of BMWs understeer what you're actually saying is that the chassis setup is more biased towards understeer than the previous generation was, not that it's impossible or even hard for a driver doing the right things to get the car to react in a way he or she wishes, i.e. for the car to be neutral, understeer or oversteer. It's the degree to which each factor plays a role and dominates the other factors that determines how enjoyable a car is. If you spec M Sport suspension with the latest BMWs, then the understeer is a complete non issue as it's a synch to drive round. For E90s and previously, standard suspension produced the same effect.
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