Ambulance and a red light

[Charlie Michael]

Obviously I expected that this question would divide opinions, however, surely this topic alone demonstrates two things; 1, that people don't expect any sympathy from the law for doing the morally correct thing and 2, I didn't know that the police can force you through a red light but and ambulance/fire engine cannot. Every day is a school day.

[KTF]

Charlie Michael said:

I didn't know that the police can force you through a red light but and ambulance/fire engine cannot. Every day is a school day.

They cant 'force' you, they have to 'direct' you i.e. gesture you through using hand signals.

If they are sitting behind you at a red light, lit up like a Christmas tree, the same rules apply as per the other services.

[Charlie Michael]

KTF said:

Charlie Michael said:

I didn't know that the police can force you through a red light but and ambulance/fire engine cannot. Every day is a school day.

They cant 'force' you, they have to 'direct' you i.e. gesture you through using hand signals.

If they are sitting behind you at a red light, lit up like a Christmas tree, the same rules apply as per the other services.

Sorry, wrong word used there.

[BoRED S2upid]

Yes you go forward very slowly I presume the cars coming through the green lights have stopped due to the siren. Then you reverse back. You wouldn't get a ticket for this your assisting the emergency services.

[HTP99]

BoRED S2upid said:

Yes you go forward very slowly I presume the cars coming through the green lights have stopped due to the siren. Then you reverse back. You wouldn't get a ticket for this your assisting the emergency services.

You would get a ticket if you set off a camera and as already stated you shouldn't go through a red light anyway.

[KTF]

BoRED S2upid said:

I presume the cars coming through the green lights have stopped due to the siren.

I would not assume that at all. Some dont even stop when the lights are red.

This is why the law states that you do not cross a red light unless instructed to do so by the Police.

[grkify]

Answer at 1 minute 36 seconds

[BoRED S2upid]

grkify said:

Answer at 1 minute 36 seconds

I stand corrected. I'd make a rubbish police officer.

I've seen plenty go through and would probably creep forward a bit myself if in the OP's position. I've been in the back of one of those screaming in pain and wouldn't want to hold someone else up.

[surveyor]

I do wonder how patient any emergency service driver would be if you did not dap into a bus lane to let them past as that video suggested.

I do think that it would be nice of those in authority would treat some of these strict offences with a degree of common sense in terms of no harm no foul, blue light vehicles on it's way....

[EnthusiastOwned]

Charlie Michael said:

EnthusiastOwned said:

The ambulance was clearly in a rush and more than likely this was a life or death situation for someone. So you just sat there because you shouldn't go through a red light? Are you serious?

What's wrong with slowly nudging forward into the junction or moving right in front of the car to the side of you then reversing back to get out of the junction? Did you not notice or hear anything prior to pulling up? I find it hard to believe your only option was to just sit there.

Edited by EnthusiastOwned on Wednesday 26th November 10:24

Did you read my post? I said that I had already pulled up, handbrake on before I even heard the ambulance coming round a corner with it's blues on. The ambulance also parked close enough to my rear bumper that reversing was out of the question.

Of course I don't want to be the reason that someone lives or dies, however, I have never been in a situation where my only route out of the situation was to go through a red light. so I'm asking on here for opinions from those that have been in this situation before and straight from the horse's mouth of the emergency services drivers.

I will add that after 10 seconds or so, the lights changed and I pulled over past the junction to let him through. So hopefully it had no impact on the person they were heading for.

I read your post and you said you were at some lights and an ambulance came from behind, nothing about pulling up before hearing/seeing the ambulance. Anyway, my main interpretation was that you had the option to move forward through a red light and you made the decision not to and you sounded quite obsequious in your writing tone. My opinion is that you should have made an effort to move through the red light, proceeding with caution; priority being safety and common sense > letting the ambulance pass > red light law > potential slapped hand and fine.

The ambulance driver smashing the horn down clearly meant he was saying 'get the **** out of the way'. He must have thought it was safe to do so judging by the training people are mentioning.

[paintman]

It was standard practice for us if we set off a camera - either speed or traffic light - to be asked to explain the reason why it was necessary. A photo showing the vehicle activating the camera would be sent.
Two of my colleagues did have accidents as a result going through a red light. Both had their police vehicle driving authorities withdrawn - as in 'Dust off your helmet you're going on foot patrol' - until passing a re-test & were prosecuted. Fines & points.
ETA separate incidents, not at the same time!

Edited by paintman on Wednesday 26th November 12:17

[HTP99]

EnthusiastOwned]The ambulance driver smashing the horn down clearly meant he was saying 'get the **** out of the way'. [b]He must have thought it was safe to do so judging by the training people are mentioning.[b/ said:

However he doesn't have the authority to do so.

[EnthusiastOwned]

HTP99 said:

However he doesn't have the authority to do so.

So? Can you not make decisions for yourself?

[Charlie Michael]

EnthusiastOwned said:

I read your post and you said you were at some lights and an ambulance came from behind, nothing about pulling up before hearing/seeing the ambulance. Anyway, my main interpretation was that you had the option to move forward through a red light and you made the decision not to and you sounded quite obsequious in your writing tone. My opinion is that you should have made an effort to move through the red light, proceeding with caution; priority being safety and common sense > letting the ambulance pass > red light law > potential slapped hand and fine.

The ambulance driver smashing the horn down clearly meant he was saying 'get the **** out of the way'. He must have thought it was safe to do so judging by the training people are mentioning.

Here's where I say it:

"So this morning I found myself in a slightly difficult position. I'm at a set of lights, with a car next to me and a lane that filters for left-only. Bearing in mind that I'm already parked at the lights, an ambulance comes from behind me and wants to go through the junction that I, and the other car are at, blocking it's progress."

As has been said by several others, you should not go through a red light as the law currently makes doing so, an offence.

I agree that the law needs to account for a degree of common sense and if it allowed me to creep forward enough to allow the Ambulance to get round without consequence then of course I would.

He could very well be telling me to "move the **** out of the way", however, considering that I cannot. It matters not what he' screaming at me.

Also, please see the video posted earlier as to what the emergency services themselves believe is the right thing to do in my situation.

I too have been in an ambulance screaming in pain, I have also relied on an Ambulance getting to my location pronto, but I'd rather have an Ambulance get there in one piece a minute late, than not at all due to something happening along the way. As per this that happened near to me recently:

http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/sunbury...

[HTP99]

EnthusiastOwned said:

HTP99 said:

However he doesn't have the authority to do so.

So? Can you not make decisions for yourself?

It is up to the individual to decide what he or she wants to do, however as it stands they have to remain behind the light, according to the law and the Highway Code, it isn't the Ambulance drivers place or right to try and force or intimidate you to go through the red light and as stated, the ambulance driver was clearly in the wrong.

[s p a c e m a n]

tr7v8 said:

Lowtimer said:

vtecyo said:

Surely you could appeal a ticket for letting an ambulance through?

I'd have (and do) moved. Imagine it was your relative in there.

It is not a legal defence, as williamp on this thread found when he got nicked for it.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

And this is why I'd have stayed put. No flexibility from the law at all. Too many have been nicked for this.

Yep, If there's a camera I'm not moving unless it's a police officer and then I'm writing down the cars reg number. If there's no camera I'll do whatever I can to help.

[Impasse]

EnthusiastOwned said:

So? Can you not make decisions for yourself?

The magistrate will take that requirement away from you.


Oh and this has mentioned a couple of times:

KTF said:

This is why the law states that you do not cross a red light unless instructed to do so by the Police.

The driver of the vehicle behind jumping up and down in their seat while flapping their hands around does not constitute instructions.

[surveyor]

Charlie Michael said:

Here's where I say it:

"So this morning I found myself in a slightly difficult position. I'm at a set of lights, with a car next to me and a lane that filters for left-only. Bearing in mind that I'm already parked at the lights, an ambulance comes from behind me and wants to go through the junction that I, and the other car are at, blocking it's progress."

As has been said by several others, you should not go through a red light as the law currently makes doing so, an offence.

I agree that the law needs to account for a degree of common sense and if it allowed me to creep forward enough to allow the Ambulance to get round without consequence then of course I would.

He could very well be telling me to "move the **** out of the way", however, considering that I cannot. It matters not what he' screaming at me.

Also, please see the video posted earlier as to what the emergency services themselves believe is the right thing to do in my situation.

I too have been in an ambulance screaming in pain, I have also relied on an Ambulance getting to my location pronto, but I'd rather have an Ambulance get there in one piece a minute late, than not at all due to something happening along the way. As per this that happened near to me recently:

http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/sunbury...

I don't see what that reports bring.... It certainly does not say that an ambulance forced a BMW through a red light that was then crashed into.

Ultimately if you do decude to go through a red light you do it carefully and make sure that other traffic has seen the ambulance and is giving way until you can get out the way. You don't just go haring across...

[Charlie Michael]

surveyor said:

I don't see what that reports bring.... It certainly does not say that an ambulance forced a BMW through a red light that was then crashed into.

Ultimately if you do decude to go through a red light you do it carefully and make sure that other traffic has seen the ambulance and is giving way until you can get out the way. You don't just go haring across...

I feel like I'm going round in circles - If the law as it exists now, prohibits me from having the ability to use my brain to judge whether going through a junction on a red light to aid an emergency vehicle, otherwise suffer the consequences of a fine, then I will not go through a red light.

As has been stipulated by the vast majority of posters on this thread, the only emergency service that is allowed to direct you through a red light is the police.

That link I posted is there to merely demonstrate how some people react to sirens blaring and what panic can cause in a similar situation. Yes, it's not exactly what happened to me, but panic in drivers is a big thing. Some react well to stressful situations, others react poorly. That article shows what happens when someone doesn't react correctly.

Now, how does the Ambulance driver behind me this morning know that I am not going to panic with him behind me blaring with every noise at his disposal and cause another accident?

[surveyor]

Charlie Michael said:

surveyor said:

I don't see what that reports bring.... It certainly does not say that an ambulance forced a BMW through a red light that was then crashed into.

Ultimately if you do decude to go through a red light you do it carefully and make sure that other traffic has seen the ambulance and is giving way until you can get out the way. You don't just go haring across...

I feel like I'm going round in circles - If the law as it exists now, prohibits me from having the ability to use my brain to judge whether going through a junction on a red light to aid an emergency vehicle, otherwise suffer the consequences of a fine, then I will not go through a red light.

As has been stipulated by the vast majority of posters on this thread, the only emergency service that is allowed to direct you through a red light is the police.

That link I posted is there to merely demonstrate how some people react to sirens blaring and what panic can cause in a similar situation. Yes, it's not exactly what happened to me, but panic in drivers is a big thing. Some react well to stressful situations, others react poorly. That article shows what happens when someone doesn't react correctly.

Now, how does the Ambulance driver behind me this morning know that I am not going to panic with him behind me blaring with every noise at his disposal and cause another accident?

You don't have to panic. You have to judge the situation and make your own decision. I assume that you never break any speed limits either?