RE: Shed Of The Week: MG TF

[TwigtheWonderkid]

JohnT993 said:

NOPE.
just no.
Not at all.
Never.
Almost in some ways but overall its still a big no.

So you'll think about it then.

[Tannedbaldhead]

marcosgt said:

I saw one early in the year.

It was metallic blue and looked immaculate and was £2500, which I thought seemed a bargain.

Sadly I need something with MORE carrying capacity than my RX8, rather than less, so I didn't get one, but for so little money, it's hard to really find much to complain about, is it?

I bet in 10-15 years time people will be as enthusiastic about these as they are MGBs and Midgets now.

M.

If it was in the Midlands I bought it.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

marcosgt said:

I bet in 10-15 years time people will be as enthusiastic about these as they are MGBs and Midgets now.

M.

I bet they won't.

[Merry]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I bet they won't.

I wouldn't be so sure of that, I've noticed various bits and pieces are becoming available at Moss and other such places, so spares isn't an issue. People also seem to keep hold of them and are fairly passionate about keeping them in good order.

I reckon numbers will level out over the next few years and stay that way, they certainly
can't get much cheaper!

[Sway]

kambites said:

Mr Will said:

kambites said:

s m said:

So if you keep an eye on the coolant/coolant pipes they're no worse in an MG TF?

The biggest problem for the K-series seems to be stressing it from cold. The huge majority of engines that suffer from head gasket failure have never been run on low coolant.

A mechanic that I greatly respect once told me that the problem with the MG F/TF was the length of the pipes to the radiator and the amount of water they held. If you thrashed it from cold the engine would get hot rapidly then the thermostat would suddenly open and dump masses of cold water in to the engine, warping the head (it in a similar fashion to topping up an overheating car before it's cooled down).

The Elise has the same issue for the same reason. You can modify the cooling system to prevent the sudden opening of the thermostat fairly easily. I've no idea how much difference it actually makes to the frequency of head gasket failure; as with most mods, some people swear by it and some say it's useless.

Edited by kambites on Friday 28th November 15:39

Yep, head gasket failure is usually the symptom, not the ailment.

There were build quality issues, but the primary issue in most cases was the installation. In mid engined cars the thermostat position was all wrong and led to thermal shock. In front engined cars they often had limited cooling capacity and were fitted into the sorts of cars it was completely unsuited to (Freelander!).

There's a great article written comparing the K series and Honda's 4cyl designs. Summary is that Honda got the installation spot on, and superb build quality.

However, in terms of engineering design and potential, the K series is streets ahead, in a sports car application. Much of the architecture is lifted straight from top line motorsport.

Yes, you can fit a Honda lump into an Elise and it's a monster - however it's also 50-80kg heavier than the Toyota engined ones IIRC, which are themselves a decent chunk of weight more than the K series versions. With the engine where it is, that's not conducive to a sweet handling car...

[kambites]

K20 engined Elises are lighter than Toyota engined ones. Naturally aspirated K20A engined Elises tend to work out about 20kg heavier than the K-series engined base car. Supercharged ones are obviously a little heavier.

[cannelldocam]

kambites said:

The mk2 MR2 doesn't drive anywhere near as well as the TF, in my experience. The mk3 is a better car than either if you can live with the lack of storage space but is still a bit more expensive and is significantly slower in a straight line.

The MK3 MR2 is also supremely fugly with those horrid enormous headlights.

[Tannedbaldhead]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

marcosgt said:

I bet in 10-15 years time people will be as enthusiastic about these as they are MGBs and Midgets now.

M.

I bet they won't.

Bet they might

I've run MKI, II, and III versions of the MX5 all bought new or nearly new. I loved them all. Last summer. bought an 03 plate, low mileage TF 135 as a summer runaround for just over £2.5K and love it even more.

Better engine (more character, more torque, sweeter at high revs, and much more economical) and better handling and ride(running on Bilstein Comfort Pack) more than make up for some dreadful cabin ergonomics, the loss of the ability to throw down and pull up the roof from inside the car with ease and a newfound diligence for checking oil and water levels (do it before every trip) and oil and water temp gauges whist driving.

I'm so taken with the TF's K Series mid-engine that I'm now seriously considering giving up on my plan to buy a New MX5 or rumoured Alfa Roadster derivative and instead buy an good SII Elise.

[vtecyo]

Mr Will said:

A mechanic that I greatly respect once told me that the problem with the MG F/TF was the length of the pipes to the radiator and the amount of water they held. If you thrashed it from cold the engine would get hot rapidly then the thermostat would suddenly open and dump masses of cold water in to the engine, warping the head (it in a similar fashion to topping up an overheating car before it's cooled down).

I have no evidence to back that up, but it seems logical to me.

This can happen with MR2 Turbos as well when people start messing with the thermostats. Very plausible.

[MadDog1962]

Hmmm... Well it is a roadworthy rag-top for less than a grand. As long as we don't start comparing the MG F with more successful designs e.g. MX-5 etc it looks OK I suppose. A friend of mine in Australia has had 2 of 'em precisely because they're the cheapest way he can buy his wife a convertible.

However, there must be something better as SOTW.

4 out of 10 Mr Shed. Must try harder.

[sparkyhx]

FD3Si said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Wow, I'm impressed. Who was he, Charles Darwin or the Duke of Wellington?

Neither. He's on the other side.

your dads the queen?

[Sway]

kambites said:

K20 engined Elises are lighter than Toyota engined ones. Naturally aspirated K20A engined Elises tend to work out about 20kg heavier than the K-series engined base car. Supercharged ones are obviously a little heavier.

Ah, my mistake. Sure it was the other way round!

Looked into swapping the 160VVC K series I have with a k20a. I'm yet to find a compelling reason to spend the cash...

[MGJohn]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

marcosgt said:

I bet in 10-15 years time people will be as enthusiastic about these as they are MGBs and Midgets now.

M.

I bet they won't.

That's a bet you'll lose.

Hasbeen said:

Can these things be the same things we got in Oz?

If so how can it be that you won't buy one here for less than $10,000?

Most MGs and Rovers are far more highly valued in other parts of the world than here in the UK.

We've numerous 1.8 K-Series cars in the family, most normally aspirated and two turbocharged.

I'm six foot and have no trouble in the MGF but find getting into and out of the Elise S2 a bit of a process. A doddle in the F. They have identical K-Series engines.

Ten years ago a lady friend had spent several hundred quid getting the so called "failed" ( actually damaged ) Cylinder Head Gasket repaired in her 1.4 Rover 25 she'd had almost from new. Driving away from the repair the car suffered a far worse so called "repeat failure" with huge coolant-oil mix soon after. She parked it up and left it unused for months. I suggested I could have a look at it for her making no promises. Nothing to lose I discovered that despite the factory trained "techies" fixing the so called HGF, they cocked it up. I fixed the car for less than hundred quid in parts and it ran flawlessly up to 120,000 miles when some van driver ran into it and it was a write off. She replaced it with a small French hatch which was always troublesome.

That was the first K-Series engine I ever worked on. My 1.8 MGZS was still fairly new and ran flawlessly ~ still does eleven years later. I learned much working on her badly repaired Rover 25's much maligned K-Series. So much so that I tackled a few problem cars since with the same issues. All now giving good reliable service with friends or within the family. My last such K-Series "HGF" being a "dont touch with a barge pole" MG ZT 1.8 turbocharged version. Which is now my daily driver. Car is a delight to drive.

So, I am a keen fan of the K-Series in all its various forms. My family K-Series cars bought new in 1993 and 2003 still on the original CHGs. Used ones so far all CHG reliable with one exception. The Lotus which needed a CHG replacement ( MLS fitted ) change at 90k miles. DIYer fixed for less than hundred quid. Here's they are:~


ZS and Elise :~



MGF :~



MG ZT 1.8t :~



Many like them and with good reason. Despite what some would have you believe, decent motors and widely and rightly appreciated in many parts of the world apart from ....

[nsm3]

Had one brand new when they first came out in 90- something? Rover 400 with a rag top, what a crock!

[TwigtheWonderkid]

MGJohn said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

marcosgt said:

I bet in 10-15 years time people will be as enthusiastic about these as they are MGBs and Midgets now.

M.

I bet they won't.

That's a bet you'll lose.

I doubt it. Sure, they'll always be a fan club, and some affection for them, but they will never ever be cherished like MGBs and Midgets.

[robg2]

After_Shock said:

... Drive a boxster after one and you can see how vastly different the engineering capabilities of Rover/MG was to proper companies.
...

Great. This is like comparing Aldi to John Lewis, ie not entirely fair.

[angelicupstarts]

Purchased a mgf with mot for £500 .
Found it to be a great litle car ...loved jumping in and just booting it .......great character .
I found I started to pick it over other cars we had to drive ....
It really reminded me of the classics I had growing up ..the spitfires . Midgets e.t.c
Same sort of character .... Not the fastest sports car out there , but always fun
And for the price ...can't really think of anything else I'd rather have

[soad]

angelicupstarts said:

Purchased a mgf with mot for £500 .
Found it to be a great litle car ...loved jumping in and just booting it .......great character .
I found I started to pick it over other cars we had to drive ....
It really reminded me of the classics I had growing up ..the spitfires . Midgets e.t.c
Same sort of character .... Not the fastest sports car out there , but always fun
And for the price ...can't really think of anything else I'd rather have

A good buy right there.

[BlimeyCharlie]

FWDRacer said:

jamespink said:

I stand corrected and apologise to you all. Does that mean it was something else that trashed the British car industry, other than these shocking cars?

Idiots like you continue to do it just as much damage. (... and just checked your car profile - all too predictable, do you drive it around in daylight with the fog lights on and failed to spec the optional indicator pack?).

Fight! Fight! Fight!
Seriously though, I thought Rover and MG whatever 'went' bust because the product was crap and charging BMW money for it at the same time?
Funny how when given the choice we go for a drop of import action, when clearly a BMW of the time was better, cheaper, with better resale value, better image and not having the stigma of 'smelly old man' about it.

[ianwayne]

Listed on ebay too. One electric window a bit iffy as well now:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-MG-TF-GREEN-/161490...