Is Haris right? Was Chris Bangle a prophet??
Discussion
I still feel rather split about the Bangle era stuff. I do like it in it's own right and think there is some interesting styling, but I don't get the same feeling I do to look at (for example) an E65 7 series as I do a nice E38. The E38 just seems more clean, more classic, more timeless, more imposing. And it's the same for the E39 5 series vs the E60/E61. Same sort of reasons. There's several angles I can look at both the E38 and the E39 and just think it looks brilliant. I just never feel the same sort of way about their successors.
I like the back end of the 5, especially the Fan rear light illumination.
The front still looks like Dame Edna but it did mellow slightly with age.
I never liked the 6. Ugly then and ugly now but, for the right money, I am sure it's a great overall package. Shame it wasn't lighter and less luxury-oriented.
The front still looks like Dame Edna but it did mellow slightly with age.
I never liked the 6. Ugly then and ugly now but, for the right money, I am sure it's a great overall package. Shame it wasn't lighter and less luxury-oriented.
Z4 is the only one of his cars that works for me, interesting article by Stephen Bayley in CAR:
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Community/Car-Magazin...
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Community/Car-Magazin...
Despite all the words used to describe his designs; flame-surfacing, dynamic, powerful, taut (etc), they all still look like a fat bloke in a really expensive suit that's too small, and was made for them before they acquired a pie dependency. It isn't unusual for me to dislike new design concepts, but I usually come around to the aesthetics in a few years. That still hasn't happened to me with Chris Bangle's ideas, so maybe this particular emperor really has no clothes.
Caveat: Design is such a personal thing, there can be no purely objective criteria in aesthetics. Its perfectly fine to love his work too!
Caveat: Design is such a personal thing, there can be no purely objective criteria in aesthetics. Its perfectly fine to love his work too!
Patrick Bateman said:
I don't dislike all of his designs but the e46, e39 and e38 are all comfortably better looking than their successors. This was the peak for me (and I said this before I owned any), all perfectly proportioned and handsome.
With the exception of the current 7 series (due to a horrific front grill), the latest 3,5 and 6 are all better looking than the Bangle cars.
Things have been getting ugiler and uglier at BMW since the e46. And it really is about time they moved things on with their interiors. Clumsy and old hat. With the exception of the current 7 series (due to a horrific front grill), the latest 3,5 and 6 are all better looking than the Bangle cars.
Edited by fatboy b on Saturday 29th November 15:54
Is it true Chris was inspired by the Bangles song "Eternal Flame" ?
Clearly he isn't a prophet merely a designer with some innovative ideas. Why are all epithets used in excess to eventually devalue them, so anyone clever is a genius, anyone of note is a legend and now a designer past his best is a prophet?
Clearly he isn't a prophet merely a designer with some innovative ideas. Why are all epithets used in excess to eventually devalue them, so anyone clever is a genius, anyone of note is a legend and now a designer past his best is a prophet?
I long thought the Bangle BMWs were abominations...the last four or five years, however, I've swung totally the other way. The E90 in facelift SE guise look absolutely superb to me now, all swoops and curves, without being overly fussy. The E60 looks phenomenal. Even the E65 is winning me over.
What happened
What happened
The problem, as always, is that styling is so subjective. Some people cannot get enough of the tautness and geometric design of current VAG product, but that simplicity borders on bland for me. I always appreciate (if not always outright like) cars that are different--e.g. the C4 Cactus. There is no doubt that the Bangle BMWs created a shake up in what was, essentially, a conservative sector of the market. It seems to have paid off for BMW, but its template hasn't transferred successfully to all other manufacturers, in my opinion; the odd mix of curves and lines on most Mercedes models now leaves them with some odd angles that sit uneasily with my eye. Despite this, though, Bangle designs DO seem to have influenced plenty of others and I would argue that, regardless of whether you like them, as BMWs continued to fly out of showrooms both in the Bangle-era and now post-Bangle, it worked. So, yes, he was a forward thinker, certainly.
Most interesting is what the article says about the conspiracy to make cars look awful unless specced to the hilt; a 3 series of that era that sat on 16" wheels looked like it was on trolley wheels. Since then gauche bodykits and over-sized wheels have proliferated--that in itself is a success for the manufacturers' accounts.
Most interesting is what the article says about the conspiracy to make cars look awful unless specced to the hilt; a 3 series of that era that sat on 16" wheels looked like it was on trolley wheels. Since then gauche bodykits and over-sized wheels have proliferated--that in itself is a success for the manufacturers' accounts.
Pantherfocus said:
Most interesting is what the article says about the conspiracy to make cars look awful unless specced to the hilt; a 3 series of that era that sat on 16" wheels looked like it was on trolley wheels. Since then gauche bodykits and over-sized wheels have proliferated--that in itself is a success for the manufacturers' accounts.
Everyone is following that trend these days. Just look at the Astra VXR without the top spec wheels and aero pack, it looks f
king drab!
Pantherfocus said:
The problem, as always, is that styling is so subjective. Some people cannot get enough of the tautness and geometric design of current VAG product, but that simplicity borders on bland for me. I always appreciate (if not always outright like) cars that are different--e.g. the C4 Cactus. There is no doubt that the Bangle BMWs created a shake up in what was, essentially, a conservative sector of the market. It seems to have paid off for BMW, but its template hasn't transferred successfully to all other manufacturers, in my opinion; the odd mix of curves and lines on most Mercedes models now leaves them with some odd angles that sit uneasily with my eye. Despite this, though, Bangle designs DO seem to have influenced plenty of others and I would argue that, regardless of whether you like them, as BMWs continued to fly out of showrooms both in the Bangle-era and now post-Bangle, it worked. So, yes, he was a forward thinker, certainly.
Most interesting is what the article says about the conspiracy to make cars look awful unless specced to the hilt; a 3 series of that era that sat on 16" wheels looked like it was on trolley wheels. Since then gauche bodykits and over-sized wheels have proliferated--that in itself is a success for the manufacturers' accounts.
No. People buy BMWs these days because they think they've made it, regardless of how ugly they are.Most interesting is what the article says about the conspiracy to make cars look awful unless specced to the hilt; a 3 series of that era that sat on 16" wheels looked like it was on trolley wheels. Since then gauche bodykits and over-sized wheels have proliferated--that in itself is a success for the manufacturers' accounts.
I actually like what he did, but even I'll admit he had an arse fixation. Regardless of how good the cars look from the rear 3/4 it's like he gave up at the front end of the car.
The Z4 coupe for instance, for me personally, has the best rear 3/4 for a coupe since the 250GTO. Almost as perfect is the side profile with the line from headlamp, through "Z" section and back to tail light. Bloody fantastic!
yet the front end is gopping-I should know I owned one!
The Z4 coupe for instance, for me personally, has the best rear 3/4 for a coupe since the 250GTO. Almost as perfect is the side profile with the line from headlamp, through "Z" section and back to tail light. Bloody fantastic!
yet the front end is gopping-I should know I owned one!
Leins said:
mwstewart said:
Not to me. I still really dislike most of his designs.
This. Turned BMWs from sleek cars that hid their size extremely well into ugly ones that didn't IMO. I never thought the older design ethos needed to be replaced anyway, but then I suppose I'm in the minority as the company has gone from strength to strength. Just not my cup of German tea anymore
anonymous said:
[redacted]
My departure from BMW was partly not liking the new styling, but also the death of the true M cars with completely separate and unique engines. I knew when I picked up the M6 that my very first V10 would likely be my last, and so it was.
Admittedly the new safety regulations today have created these blunt-nosed monsters in order to meet the requirement for pedestrian safety, but neither BMW nor Mercedes styling these days does anything for me. I have my old R230 SL in the garage, and to me it looks a whole lots better than the current fishy maw of the current car.
To answer the OP's question, my personal opinion is that Harris is wrong!!
Normally, I agree with pretty much everything Chris Harris has to say, and I rate him highly as a journalist, but on this occasion, I could not disagree more.
The E60 E63 and E65 were ugly when they came out and they are still ugly today. I think the E60 has become easier on the eyes as we have become accustomed to looking at it. The E65 has to go down as one of the most awful looking BMW's ever, interior and exterior
The best description of an E63 came from Jeremy Clarkson when he said it looked like it had "Down's Syndrome", funny, as I normally never agree with Clarkson.
I agree that the classic design features that made BMW great, such as the sharknose grill etc. could not last due to new car design rules, but Bangle ruined the whole BMW identity that had taken so long to cultivate.
Bangle's cars are best forgotten IMO. Since Bangle left, things could only get better.
Normally, I agree with pretty much everything Chris Harris has to say, and I rate him highly as a journalist, but on this occasion, I could not disagree more.
The E60 E63 and E65 were ugly when they came out and they are still ugly today. I think the E60 has become easier on the eyes as we have become accustomed to looking at it. The E65 has to go down as one of the most awful looking BMW's ever, interior and exterior
The best description of an E63 came from Jeremy Clarkson when he said it looked like it had "Down's Syndrome", funny, as I normally never agree with Clarkson.
I agree that the classic design features that made BMW great, such as the sharknose grill etc. could not last due to new car design rules, but Bangle ruined the whole BMW identity that had taken so long to cultivate.
Bangle's cars are best forgotten IMO. Since Bangle left, things could only get better.
Edited by Bayerische on Sunday 30th November 06:47
Fox- said:
fatboy b said:
No. People buy BMWs these days because they think they've made it, regardless of how ugly they are.
I wonder what percentage of people actually do *buy* BMW's new?Many designs get very old with age. Look at the E36, E39, 8 Series etc.
But the Bangle BMW's have not suffered from this at all.
I picked up my M6 from the dealership yesterday and it was getting more looks than the new M3 saloom it was parked next to. It still looks fresh and bang upto date IMO.
But the Bangle BMW's have not suffered from this at all.
I picked up my M6 from the dealership yesterday and it was getting more looks than the new M3 saloom it was parked next to. It still looks fresh and bang upto date IMO.
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