Is Haris right? Was Chris Bangle a prophet??

[RDMcG]

http://jalopnik.com/we-were-all-wrong-chris-bangle...

I recall having dinner with Chris Bangle in New Orleans just before the redesigned 5 and 6 came out. The guy was pretty hypnotic in terms of his logic and I really had no intelligent way to counter him, but in the end I did serially buy a 645ci and an M6. At the time I recall how many people just loathed these cars, how much abuse I took from my mates. "what's next, a Aztek??" I was asked... and recalled Bangle actually defending the original Aztek design and saying it had been ruined by the production people.
I do think the M6 has aged surprisingly well...the thing has aggressiveness and character and looks like nothing else. Interesting perspective from Chris Harris.

[daveofedinburgh]

This was lunchtime reading via Twitter earlier today.

Bangles' flame surfacing had its hits and misses. The 7 series was a miss and still is, the Z4 split opinion at launch but now looks excellent.

I suspect had Bangle been designing Hyundais or something equally unimportant to most petrol heads, his work would have been dismissed and now completely forgotten.

Because he was penning BMWs, his 'challenging' designs were forced on us through the sheer volume of cars sold, and the general love amongst petrolheads for the marque.

I also suspect that he gave BMW an 'edginess' that in the long term has kept it more interesting. Would a slightly modernised, 'safe' Z3 have sold like the Z4? He missed quite afew times, but ultimately made the brand more exciting.

[J4CKO]

I really want to do a Monty Python answer to that.

[DukeDickson]

RDMcG said:

http://jalopnik.com/we-were-all-wrong-chris-bangle...

I recall having dinner with Chris Bangle in New Orleans just before the redesigned 5 and 6 came out. The guy was pretty hypnotic in terms of his logic and I really had no intelligent way to counter him, but in the end I did serially buy a 645ci and an M6. At the time I recall how many people just loathed these cars, how much abuse I took from my mates. "what's next, a Aztek??" I was asked... and recalled Bangle actually defending the original Aztek design and saying it had been ruined by the production people.
I do think the M6 has aged surprisingly well...the thing has aggressiveness and character and looks like nothing else. Interesting perspective from Chris Harris.

None of Jesus/Saint/Sinner/Prophet etc, even in the world of black roll necks and the Panerai?
However, I'm not a hater, he definitely moved the game on, some of the bits he approved (how much of 'Bangle' did he actually design ???) were great. However, very much let down by intransigence.

[Baryonyx]

It's certainly true that his designs look better with age, but this effect is amplified by the presence of the current BMW range, which is fantastically ugly and bland in equal measure. So, I suspect even Bangle's detractors would welcome him back given the dire state of the range.

The E60 is think was a particularly good bit of design. The curved headlights and stout nose are about the best way BMW could have managed the difficult transition from a fkst, squarish nose to a curved EU friendly design. It's still a marvellous looking car and made the best M5 of all time. The 7 was a good job too. The E38 was a better looker than the E39 so it had more of a mountain to climb but it's still a great looking car.

Bangle is no idiot and knew he had to be daring to break away from the 'old' BMW the company obviously wanted to leave behind.

[Deerfoot]

I didn't like the Bangle Z4 at the time, I think it looks great now, especially next to the present car which looks a little bland in comparison.

I always loved the e60.

[Jon1967x]

From a business perspective it does not matter how much of a genius history will see you as if at the time your designs didn't sell. I think they sold enough personally so he was a game changer.. There are only a few product designers people can name, he's one, Johnny Ive, Ian Callum others

On the other hand I believe the i8 will go the other way over 10 years, the skinny wheels will increasingly look naff especially from the rear, the futuristic looks and finish will age awkwardly like a Delorean, and the mechanicals and performance will be seen as 'good in their day but pitiful by today's standards' compromised by the need to include an internal combustion engine.

I doubt Richard Kim could have done what Bangle did, butthe key difference is Kim has designed today's view of tomorrow not tomorrow's view of today. I'd love to have seen what bangle would have done with the i8. For instance Bangle came out with the material fabric body work concept Gina, that's genuine styling revolution if a bit impractical at the moment

[B'stard Child]

I think CH summed it up quite well

What Bangle did to BMW was the same as the Sierra did for Ford

People weren't ready for it but with a little time the jellymould became normal and anything brick like from before looked well brick like

[Fox-]

A somewhat badly photographed article - I thought neither the E65 facelift nor the F10 5 Series were designed by Bangle. The two nicest looking cars in that article and not from his pen...

[Triumph Man]

I'm starting to like the look of the e60, the thing I don't like about it as much, which is probably not bangle's fault, is the interior and the lack of kit in comparison to an e39.

[mon the fish]

Fiat Coupe, E60 and E85 Z4 have aged brilliantly IMO, 6-series less so.

But consider the Z4 - looked strikingly modern at the time, and has aged well. Then think of the 1st gen Focus - modern at the time, aged not so well IMO. Of course volume may have something to do with it, but I think overall his designs were v good

[mwstewart]

Not to me. I still really dislike most of his designs.

[Leins]

mwstewart said:

Not to me. I still really dislike most of his designs.

This. Turned BMWs from sleek cars that hid their size extremely well into ugly ones that didn't IMO. I never thought the older design ethos needed to be replaced anyway, but then I suppose I'm in the minority as the company has gone from strength to strength. Just not my cup of German tea anymore

[Fox-]

Leins said:

This. Turned BMWs from sleek cars that hid their size extremely well into ugly ones that didn't IMO. I never thought the older design ethos was needing to be replaced anyway, but then I suppos what do I know as the company has gone from strength to strength. Just not my cup of German tea anymore

It's gone from strength to strength because it now offers a range of low powered small capacity diesel powered cars that look faster, flasher and more sporting than an M Power car of 20 years ago for a low monthly finance payment, not because Bangle restyled them. Audi have seen similar growth and I don't even think they have a styling department

[epom]

I always liked them, really liked them. Does that mean I'm gonna end up disliking the with time?

[Leins]

Fox- said:

It's gone from strength to strength because it now offers a range of low powered small capacity diesel powered cars that look faster, flasher and more sporting than an M Power car of 20 years ago for a low monthly finance payment, not because Bangle restyled them. Audi have seen similar growth and I don't even think they have a styling department

Audi have a re-sizing department instead

I think it was Stephen Bayley who held the E46 coupe up as one of the greatest car designs. Although that opinion would probably be questioned currently, when numbers decrease and ubiquity becomes a thing of the past then I reckon people will realise just how elegant some of the later pre-Bangle cars really were. Not sure the same will happen with the E90 or E60

[anonymous-user]

I think it's important to put his work in the context of the time too - nobody else had any bright ideas so it was either bland or terrible retro dross. The problem with retro design is there is no way to take it forward as we already know where it goes. I think the ultimate compliment to his work is that almost every car now launched looks to be pretty derivative of BMWs from the 2000s.

[rohrl]

I disagree. BMW's looked good then Bangle fked them up. Most of his cars have obviously awful proportions which make them look gawky and/or fat from different angles.

[Fox-]

dme123 said:

I think it's important to put his work in the context of the time too - nobody else had any bright ideas so it was either bland or terrible retro dross.

I don't think it's fair to call the E39 5 Series or E46 3 Series either 'bland' or 'terrible retro dross'.

[Patrick Bateman]

I don't dislike all of his designs but the e46, e39 and e38 are all comfortably better looking than their successors. This was the peak for me (and I said this before I owned any), all perfectly proportioned and handsome.

With the exception of the current 7 series (due to a horrific front grill), the latest 3,5 and 6 are all better looking than the Bangle cars.