RE: Speed thrills: PH Blog
Discussion
There but... indeed.
I think most of us are guilty of this at some point, yes? We've just had to rely on the sanity of the police driver in question to save us. I certainly remember doing a speed that was definitely very much the wrong side of the law down the middle lane of the M40 at silly AM one summers night quite a long time ago now. It was late, I wanted to be at home, and I was the only thing on the road for miles in any direction... ...at least I thought I was until I was over taken by a police interceptor with it's red and blues on doing sufficient speed to make me feel like I was stopped. Suitably humbled I limped home the rest of the way at as close to precisely 70mph as my speedo would allow.
Clearly he could have pulled me over. When I saw the lights come on I was already gearing myself up for the "Does this car belong to you, sir? Have you been drinking tonight, sir?" talk, but he obviously thought that a simple display of power would shame me into slowing down, and had better things to do than fill out the paperwork required to book me.
"Yes officer, I'm sorry. I was being childish. Yours is clearly faster. I'll go home sensibly now."
I was lucky, and I've not done it again, but it really does come down to the common sense of the police.
I want people doing 80 through villages booked. I want their licences taken away. I'm all for confiscating the cars of the sort of asshat that overtakes on the inside at 140mph all of 100 yards from a motorway intersection in heavy rain. I want them booked because that is _dangerous_ driving, and it's right that we have a law against that.
Fast driving isn't necessarily dangerous driving tho, and a bit of a telling off is surely sufficient and should be at the officers discretion?
I think most of us are guilty of this at some point, yes? We've just had to rely on the sanity of the police driver in question to save us. I certainly remember doing a speed that was definitely very much the wrong side of the law down the middle lane of the M40 at silly AM one summers night quite a long time ago now. It was late, I wanted to be at home, and I was the only thing on the road for miles in any direction... ...at least I thought I was until I was over taken by a police interceptor with it's red and blues on doing sufficient speed to make me feel like I was stopped. Suitably humbled I limped home the rest of the way at as close to precisely 70mph as my speedo would allow.
Clearly he could have pulled me over. When I saw the lights come on I was already gearing myself up for the "Does this car belong to you, sir? Have you been drinking tonight, sir?" talk, but he obviously thought that a simple display of power would shame me into slowing down, and had better things to do than fill out the paperwork required to book me.
"Yes officer, I'm sorry. I was being childish. Yours is clearly faster. I'll go home sensibly now."
I was lucky, and I've not done it again, but it really does come down to the common sense of the police.
I want people doing 80 through villages booked. I want their licences taken away. I'm all for confiscating the cars of the sort of asshat that overtakes on the inside at 140mph all of 100 yards from a motorway intersection in heavy rain. I want them booked because that is _dangerous_ driving, and it's right that we have a law against that.
Fast driving isn't necessarily dangerous driving tho, and a bit of a telling off is surely sufficient and should be at the officers discretion?
I can't understand why it's taken this long. You watch any clip on YouTube of all the journos driving these cars and most of the time they are breaking the law. Does not bother me in the slightest but they are taking risks.
Looks like Milbrook and blyton will be getting busier and the subscription fee increasing to cover costs.
Looks like Milbrook and blyton will be getting busier and the subscription fee increasing to cover costs.
mrclav said:
Captain Muppet said:
mrclav said:
Sorry but I have to disagree with your last point. Human beings by nature will always attempt to improve on previous efforts no matter what the situation or product. If we applied your thinking to computing, mobile phones, the internet, medical products etc, we'd all be a LOT worse off than we are.
The target for improvement doesn't have to be speed though, does it?I pity anyone who has speed as their top priority.
Interesting story this and I do feel for the person concerned however it should be remembered that he was ragging the bits off Porsche, during an A to B trip not doing cornering shots, and I am sure that with his experience there was no need to be doing 127mph in a 60 limit. If there was a need then the need should not have existed and that is probably another story.
I love fast driving and have had many fast cars, sadly not in the league of the 911 GTS but still enough to smash a speed limit out of site. I excepted many years ago that fast driving on public roads just wasn't the way forward and started doing track days as my way of experiencing my cars handling and enjoyed taking them up over 100mph and feeling the power as I have slid through corners getting the power down early.
The problem I do have when I see magazines glorifying the ease of power sliding a car on the road, or excessive speed is that buyers will want to copy, and frankly its just not safe on public roads. The advertising standards authority clamped down on adverts for cars many years ago saying they couldn't market their cars on the basis of their performance. This is in reality was a nonsense as the manufacturers just get the journos to do this for them.
Sadly for me 127mph is way beyond the scope of reasonable. There by the grace of god go I and all that, for past driving, however in todays world there can be no tolerance. I think the journo accepts that too in his guilty verdict. Perhaps during his time off the road he can be considering new ways he can present car journalism that will keep him the right side of the law.
I love fast driving and have had many fast cars, sadly not in the league of the 911 GTS but still enough to smash a speed limit out of site. I excepted many years ago that fast driving on public roads just wasn't the way forward and started doing track days as my way of experiencing my cars handling and enjoyed taking them up over 100mph and feeling the power as I have slid through corners getting the power down early.
The problem I do have when I see magazines glorifying the ease of power sliding a car on the road, or excessive speed is that buyers will want to copy, and frankly its just not safe on public roads. The advertising standards authority clamped down on adverts for cars many years ago saying they couldn't market their cars on the basis of their performance. This is in reality was a nonsense as the manufacturers just get the journos to do this for them.
Sadly for me 127mph is way beyond the scope of reasonable. There by the grace of god go I and all that, for past driving, however in todays world there can be no tolerance. I think the journo accepts that too in his guilty verdict. Perhaps during his time off the road he can be considering new ways he can present car journalism that will keep him the right side of the law.
Nick Young said:
Perhaps you should review them as they are likely to be used in the real world - very few people will be driving them in such a manner.
In other words, how easy is a 911 to drive in stop-start traffic on the A34. How does the Cayman handle NVH on the concrete sections of the M25, that sort of thing. You could split up the review and have a section for track performance which is the only place you can really gauge the true out and out performance of even the most modest of these machines.
I suspect the sales of any enthusiast magazine taking this approach would be down by about 90%.In other words, how easy is a 911 to drive in stop-start traffic on the A34. How does the Cayman handle NVH on the concrete sections of the M25, that sort of thing. You could split up the review and have a section for track performance which is the only place you can really gauge the true out and out performance of even the most modest of these machines.
I'm a big fan of fast sportscars. I don't have much actual time for supercars though.
I know it sounds very middle-aged of me, but, all the effort that gets put into making a supercar perform over 130mph is counterproductive to making a small light nimble sportscar. I like my sportscar to handle well within a socially acceptable envelope. I don't do trackdays.
I have a couple of cars that will do over 120mph. I can't recall the last time I drove anywhere near that speed.
I know it sounds very middle-aged of me, but, all the effort that gets put into making a supercar perform over 130mph is counterproductive to making a small light nimble sportscar. I like my sportscar to handle well within a socially acceptable envelope. I don't do trackdays.
I have a couple of cars that will do over 120mph. I can't recall the last time I drove anywhere near that speed.
Captain Muppet said:
mrclav said:
Captain Muppet said:
mrclav said:
Sorry but I have to disagree with your last point. Human beings by nature will always attempt to improve on previous efforts no matter what the situation or product. If we applied your thinking to computing, mobile phones, the internet, medical products etc, we'd all be a LOT worse off than we are.
The target for improvement doesn't have to be speed though, does it?I pity anyone who has speed as their top priority.
It's obviously not just about the speed, it's the comfort whilst doing so as well as the knowledge that I can repeat the feat safely all over again. My car does well over 155mph - have I exploited it to the fullest on a public road? Yes I have (although it was only once, on the autobahn - natch). I've also experienced it on more than one track too. You forget that cars in the main are not bought by people who think like you, especially cars that are generally capable of extremely high speeds. If some want to call it willy-waving or if you want to pity me etc, I couldn't care less. I'm just glad I live in a time where I can experience a car that has the ability to reach almost 200mph but at the same time be driven perfectly safely in London traffic in total comfort.
Edited by mrclav on Wednesday 3rd December 12:04
suffolk009 said:
I'm a big fan of fast sportscars. I don't have much actual time for supercars though.
I know it sounds very middle-aged of me, but, all the effort that gets put into making a supercar perform over 130mph is counterproductive to making a small light nimble sportscar. I like my sportscar to handle well within a socially acceptable envelope. I don't do trackdays.
I have a lot of sympathy for this POV. Thing is, the 'socially acceptable envelope' is being narrowed all the time and the alternative course of action to maintain/improve on road safety levels - improve driver training and licensing across the board - has been mentioned time and time again in the press (and sometimes in the mainstream media, too) but will probably never been heard by politics, keen not to lose votes from the masses of car potatos who seem to feel it's a birth right to move themselves about in 1-3 tonnes worth of steel, plastics and glass.I know it sounds very middle-aged of me, but, all the effort that gets put into making a supercar perform over 130mph is counterproductive to making a small light nimble sportscar. I like my sportscar to handle well within a socially acceptable envelope. I don't do trackdays.
For me, the thing that separates my Touring bike from my GT car is the connection to the environment and the machine. A connection that is very much present in my 106 Rallye - road noise, mechanical noise, steering feel, the ability to influence direction with throttle input etc. - Let's face it, it's risk!
Weight, power steering, stability programs/traction control, sound deadening, improved crash safety and increasingly wide tyres lessen the risk and dull the connection. But realistically you don't want to remove all of these features and genuine advances - I would however stop designing suspension (on sports oriented and performance cars) tuned to permit my wife to understeer herself into a kerb rather then allow me to turn the car by lifting off or powering on (depending on vehicle and spec), reduce tyre width and (importantly) increase aspect ratio (which when combined with weight loss may permit many sports oriented cars to use a conventional steering system along with reducing the snap effects of breaking traction), improve throttle response (I hate having the ECU second guess my inputs - throttle response is greatly improved in my barge when the traction control is disabled) and reduce the sound deadening and obstructive A/B/C posts which all contribute to a sense of isolation from your environment. The sound of the tyres running over the road surface used to be one of my primary indicators of grip in wet/wintry conditions (a luxury you don't have on a bike) - I still search for the key indicators in the GT car but they're never available when I need them, by the time I note the silence of potential black ice and verify that my ears aren't playing tricks on my it's too late to be able to do much more about it.
Weight, power steering, stability programs/traction control, sound deadening, improved crash safety and increasingly wide tyres lessen the risk and dull the connection. But realistically you don't want to remove all of these features and genuine advances - I would however stop designing suspension (on sports oriented and performance cars) tuned to permit my wife to understeer herself into a kerb rather then allow me to turn the car by lifting off or powering on (depending on vehicle and spec), reduce tyre width and (importantly) increase aspect ratio (which when combined with weight loss may permit many sports oriented cars to use a conventional steering system along with reducing the snap effects of breaking traction), improve throttle response (I hate having the ECU second guess my inputs - throttle response is greatly improved in my barge when the traction control is disabled) and reduce the sound deadening and obstructive A/B/C posts which all contribute to a sense of isolation from your environment. The sound of the tyres running over the road surface used to be one of my primary indicators of grip in wet/wintry conditions (a luxury you don't have on a bike) - I still search for the key indicators in the GT car but they're never available when I need them, by the time I note the silence of potential black ice and verify that my ears aren't playing tricks on my it's too late to be able to do much more about it.
Dan Trent said:
How, as an owner, can you really expect to get any enjoyment out of a car that, like the Porsche Cayman GTS we had in the other day, will hit 85mph in second gear?
In my case it was an E90 M3 and the answer was - I couldn't. The car was just too good, too competent and I wasn't prepared to risk losing my licence, going to jail or worse (hurting someone) in order to enjoy driving it.
So I replaced it with a 130i and a TVR, both of which are much more fun to drive in the road/traffic/consequence conditions of today.
r7ehw said:
The problem I do have when I see magazines glorifying the ease of power sliding a car on the road, or excessive speed is that buyers will want to copy, and frankly its just not safe on public roads.
That's true. Back when I was a lad one of my mates was determined to show us all that he could drift his Sierra (yeah I'm that old!) just like something in 'Car' magazine (they were reviewing a Cosworth, he had a 1.8). It started to well, tail out... yes...rear slightly lit up, yup going well, then it caught grip flicked the other way and went straight into a wall writing said Sierra off. Young lads of today will be exactly the same, because that is how young males are naturally programmed.Let be honest here, you can drive dangerously at 30 mph and you can drive dangerously at 130mph.
It's all about reasonableness. Is it reasonable to to drive at 40 mph past a school in the 30mph limit when the kids are coming out in the afternoon? No.
Is it reasonable to drive at 90 mph in a car capable of much higher speeds on an empty wide motorway in good visibility and dry weather. I'd argue yes.
Is it reasonable to be driving at 127mph in a 60mph on a single line carriage way at quarter to one in the morning.
No it isn't in anyway stretch of the imagination. The guy got what he deserved, and any sympathy is misguided.
Do cars have to be capable of doing 200mph? Why not? Someone will always want one, and be willing to pay for one.
Do we want a country that limits cars top speed like they do in Japan? Nope.
There's a time and a place for doing high speeds it's down to the driver to decide when and where that is.
If you're doing it at the wrong place and the wrong time expect to feel the full force of the law.
It's all about reasonableness. Is it reasonable to to drive at 40 mph past a school in the 30mph limit when the kids are coming out in the afternoon? No.
Is it reasonable to drive at 90 mph in a car capable of much higher speeds on an empty wide motorway in good visibility and dry weather. I'd argue yes.
Is it reasonable to be driving at 127mph in a 60mph on a single line carriage way at quarter to one in the morning.
No it isn't in anyway stretch of the imagination. The guy got what he deserved, and any sympathy is misguided.
Do cars have to be capable of doing 200mph? Why not? Someone will always want one, and be willing to pay for one.
Do we want a country that limits cars top speed like they do in Japan? Nope.
There's a time and a place for doing high speeds it's down to the driver to decide when and where that is.
If you're doing it at the wrong place and the wrong time expect to feel the full force of the law.
This thread seem to echo a growing number on here — yesterday's call for a 4 cylinder M car being the latest — that are about the nature of modern cars, which are getting heavier, faster and more sophisticated, but less involving.
I guess the question is whether this would ever translate into a legitimate demand that might steer manufacturers towards making lighter, more agile and slower cars.... or is it just a nice thought from a small number of enthusiasts?
I guess the question is whether this would ever translate into a legitimate demand that might steer manufacturers towards making lighter, more agile and slower cars.... or is it just a nice thought from a small number of enthusiasts?
Perhaps I've got the wrong end of the stick here - He was driving at 127mph on a public road, but PH is hinting that a bit of Scots/English Xenophobia and yellow Porsche envy was a part of the reason why he got banned? Oh and it was 1am - well, that's okay then.
I doesn't matter if you're a Motoring Journalist, Enthusiast, Boy Racer or Lewis Hamilton on your day off - roads are for traveling from place to place, they're not playgrounds to piss about on - the rules apply to all equally - there's aren't any 'special' ones because you like driving and automatically assume that means your better at it.
I doesn't matter if you're a Motoring Journalist, Enthusiast, Boy Racer or Lewis Hamilton on your day off - roads are for traveling from place to place, they're not playgrounds to piss about on - the rules apply to all equally - there's aren't any 'special' ones because you like driving and automatically assume that means your better at it.
Geoffcapes said:
Let be honest here, you can drive dangerously at 30 mph and you can drive dangerously at 130mph.
It's all about reasonableness. Is it reasonable to to drive at 40 mph past a school in the 30mph limit when the kids are coming out in the afternoon? No.
Is it reasonable to drive at 90 mph in a car capable of much higher speeds on an empty wide motorway in good visibility and dry weather. I'd argue yes.
Is it reasonable to be driving at 127mph in a 60mph on a single line carriage way at quarter to one in the morning.
No it isn't in anyway stretch of the imagination. The guy got what he deserved, and any sympathy is misguided.
Do cars have to be capable of doing 200mph? Why not? Someone will always want one, and be willing to pay for one.
Do we want a country that limits cars top speed like they do in Japan? Nope.
There's a time and a place for doing high speeds it's down to the driver to decide when and where that is.
If you're doing it at the wrong place and the wrong time expect to feel the full force of the law.
This seems a bit of a contradiction — surely, an empty single carriage road in Scotland at 1 o'clock in the morning is one of the very few places where you could be forgiven for deciding it's the right place at the right time?It's all about reasonableness. Is it reasonable to to drive at 40 mph past a school in the 30mph limit when the kids are coming out in the afternoon? No.
Is it reasonable to drive at 90 mph in a car capable of much higher speeds on an empty wide motorway in good visibility and dry weather. I'd argue yes.
Is it reasonable to be driving at 127mph in a 60mph on a single line carriage way at quarter to one in the morning.
No it isn't in anyway stretch of the imagination. The guy got what he deserved, and any sympathy is misguided.
Do cars have to be capable of doing 200mph? Why not? Someone will always want one, and be willing to pay for one.
Do we want a country that limits cars top speed like they do in Japan? Nope.
There's a time and a place for doing high speeds it's down to the driver to decide when and where that is.
If you're doing it at the wrong place and the wrong time expect to feel the full force of the law.
Unless you mean it was right until it wasn't, when he got caught.
The writer is joking about 4th gear slides on a track day isn't he?! You'll get booted off pretty quick for those shenanigans!
Bottom line anything over about 130-140mph is completely pointless.
People just need to realise that having a lug about that will get you to work in the inevitable traffic jam is the way forward these days. Then you get a second car that is the fun one.
Who cars if a chipped 335 Diesel is quicker past 100mph....only people who lack driving talent care and they aren't worth caring about and will almost certainly have a small penis.
Personally, people who now drive cars need to ride motorbikes. As a tool for the road a Motorbike is unbeatable as the 600s do 50mpg if treated adequately, 0-100 in 8 seconds, and don't get stuck in a traffic jam. Tax is £60 a year, insurance is cheap as are running costs. If you have the right gear, you don't get cold or wet.
Then you have a special weekend car that you enjoy for the drive.
But if you have to have that nice car because of what other people think, I pity you and good luck with bleating on
Bottom line anything over about 130-140mph is completely pointless.
People just need to realise that having a lug about that will get you to work in the inevitable traffic jam is the way forward these days. Then you get a second car that is the fun one.
Who cars if a chipped 335 Diesel is quicker past 100mph....only people who lack driving talent care and they aren't worth caring about and will almost certainly have a small penis.
Personally, people who now drive cars need to ride motorbikes. As a tool for the road a Motorbike is unbeatable as the 600s do 50mpg if treated adequately, 0-100 in 8 seconds, and don't get stuck in a traffic jam. Tax is £60 a year, insurance is cheap as are running costs. If you have the right gear, you don't get cold or wet.
Then you have a special weekend car that you enjoy for the drive.
But if you have to have that nice car because of what other people think, I pity you and good luck with bleating on
RocketRabbit said:
Personally, people who now drive cars need to ride motorbikes. As a tool for the road a Motorbike is unbeatable as the 600s do 50mpg if treated adequately, 0-100 in 8 seconds, and don't get stuck in a traffic jam. Tax is £60 a year, insurance is cheap as are running costs. If you have the right gear, you don't get cold or wet.
I quite like my life (and in all probability you're not getting another one anyway unless you're a cat or Maxi Jazz), thanksverymuch. I've been rear ended twice in six months (actually, three times, but the one of last evening was gentle and the car has probably been written off by the prior one not even two weeks before, anyway) when slowing down for traffic and I go by the assumption that if people fail to notice a big old bus with a very bright high level brake light in time, what chance do I have on a bike...
I like the idea of riding a bike, just not in traffic...
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff