RE: Speed thrills: PH Blog

[MisterF]

I too sold my sports bike Yamaha R1. I changed to a Triumph Speed Triple 1050cc. It's a cool bike to cruise on doesn't need 120mph to start to enjoy it.

I also had 3 TVRs & I now own a Cayman S.

Ridden Nurburgring, been to LeMans 3x, Scotland's West coast (lost count) IOM too - after all my 'exploits' I'm glad to still be in 1 piece. Following a non fault head on crash at 30mph 6 years ago, which almost destroyed my career, I now obey pretty much all speed limits (I'm not perfect!) I still drive to the IPSGA system I was taught.

You can still have fun without losing your licence. A guy came past me on the Motorway doing 80 ish in his little Peugeot when my passenger said "he's going to do you" to which I replied "I have another 100 at my disposal & nothing to prove".

Enjoy the freedom of choice your cars / bikes give you because there's nothing to prove :-)

[GreyGray]

Man drives dangerously, gets caught, and gets prosecuted for dangerous driving. I don't see the controversy.

[PRN2K]

Having spent my whole career tuning the cars that journalists then critique, I feel that ego is often to blame; how many have enjoyed a spirited drive to then be overtaken by a ‘superior’ machine and then longed for more ‘performance’ –power, grip, brakes? Engineers raise the bar, and the consumer has to drive faster to feel the same reward in extracting that performance.

Ego makes people forget what’s enjoyable for the sake of being fastest. Ego makes journalists compare SUV lap times on a test track; it’s human nature to prove oneself to one’s peers rather than just enjoy what one has-cue more performance than we can ever use–or enjoy. The occasional breath of fresh air is the press ‘revelation’ that a 106Gti or Suzuki Swift provides more reward and ‘fun’ than a pack of supercars, but it’s soon forgotten with a shot of a 4th gear power slide – we all want some of that!

As for the hapless journo-he rolls the same dice as every other enthusiast–use excess speed at your peril!

[carpetsoiler]

This is something I've very recently sat back and been contemplating.

I deliberately bought an old BMW in the hopes that I'd be able to access the more fun side of the car at lower speeds, compared to newer machinery. 2 of my best friends had the 135i, and both were just utterly, utterly competent to the point of being dull at speed. Sure, they were fast cross country and sure, they were an interesting idea... but my old jalopy always was more fun. It howls, it barks, it's still mighty rapid, it carries a lot of st, and it's a lot more involving than most new machinery.

Now it's gone even further- she's gone in for welding, and I've been loaned an MX5 for the interim period (groan, typical PH response). It truly is the answer. It's fun, exciting, involving, and it manages all this keeping the speed around the 60 > 70 mark. Sections of tarmac that I'd have no issue blasting along way above the posted limit in the BMW is more fun at a lower speed in the MX5...

Now I'm sat here, pondering the current climate surrounding speeding being as distastefully viewed as drink driving, looking out the window, and thinking it may be time to change...

Damn.

[SonicHedgeHog]

Four years ago I made the decision to go small, light and nimble. Not great on the motorway, but the perfect car 99% of the rest of the time. When I had five litres of V8 muscle my car choice needed no justification to others, but now I feel my choice always needs explaining and that gets tedious. Despite this my choice was the correct one. On B roads I can take my car to the limiter in 2nd and 3rd with the only risk being a telling off from the plod. That's great and also leaves me enough money to do other things. I didn't have 7 holidays a year when I was running the V8.

[leftfoot]

Just a couple of points to point out the A96 is one of the most dangerous road in scotland it has been in the top twenty for the last few years anyone who is doing twice the maximum speed limit is asking for trouble when I worked on the rigs it was used as the local race track.
The police have always policed the A96 quite heavily it is not the place to do high speed test!!!!

[daytona365]

We seem to forget that nowadays the humblest shopping trolley can lose ones licence if one drives like a knob !

[rosino]

leftfoot said:

Just a couple of points to point out the A96 is one of the most dangerous road in scotland it has been in the top twenty for the last few years anyone who is doing twice the maximum speed limit is asking for trouble when I worked on the rigs it was used as the local race track.
The police have always policed the A96 quite heavily it is not the place to do high speed test!!!!

Possibly, I do not know the road in question. But still the blind campaign against speeding in this country is intolerable. I can't stand it. I dont know the exact circumstances of the incident, but going the "dangerous driving" route simply because of the high speed is just so "daily mail" is not even funny.

If the conditions are 1am, deserted stretch of road, no traffic, no villages nearby, on a straight bit of road (assuming here.. but likely it was the case). Speeding conviction ? Yes, sure. Dangerous driving just to hurt the culprit even more ? I don't think so.

The hypocrisy of blaming everything on speed drives me nuts. When actually better driver education and a more decent infrastructure would go much further to improve security. But those cost more upfront and don't make political headlines. Don't they.

[anonymous-user]

Living in the South of the UK, the limiting factor now, at ALL times of the day is other traffic. It seems that over the last ~5 years, the typical speed of our roads, of almost what ever type) has reduced to around 40mph. There is such traffic density, combined with poorly trained/observing drivers that it just takes one muppet who can't manage more than 40 (and there are many more than one of them!) and the entire road network simply collapses to the lowest common denominator. So, whilst my normal diesel estate car could theoretically do 155mph, i struggle to even get into 6th gear these days (needs 43mph before it will let me have 6th!).

And yet, as successive governments and organisations continue to myopically focus on raw speed as the root of all evil, and everyday i see hundreds of examples of poor driving that have nothing to do with raw speed. Things like in-attention, poor judgement, anger, discourteous driving, poor observation, inappropriate road positioning. If for every "example" motorist pinned up in court for exceeding some completely arbitrary velocity, we educated 2 others, our road system would be both more efficient and safer.........

[daytona365]

Max_Torque said:

Living in the South of the UK, the limiting factor now, at ALL times of the day is other traffic. It seems that over the last ~5 years, the typical speed of our roads, of almost what ever type) has reduced to around 40mph. There is such traffic density, combined with poorly trained/observing drivers that it just takes one muppet who can't manage more than 40 (and there are many more than one of them!) and the entire road network simply collapses to the lowest common denominator. So, whilst my normal diesel estate car could theoretically do 155mph, i struggle to even get into 6th gear these days (needs 43mph before it will let me have 6th!).

And yet, as successive governments and organisations continue to myopically focus on raw speed as the root of all evil, and everyday i see hundreds of examples of poor driving that have nothing to do with raw speed. Things like in-attention, poor judgement, anger, discourteous driving, poor observation, inappropriate road positioning. If for every "example" motorist pinned up in court for exceeding some completely arbitrary velocity, we educated 2 others, our road system would be both more efficient and safer.........

.....So sad, but absolutely true. Isn't London's average around 19 mph ?.....And parking ?..Ha,ha,ha !!

[Tony33]

Thirty years ago I watched Gwyndaf Evans and others driving 200 bhp Chevettes, Escorts and Sunbeams at speeds in thick fog on public roads in the Motoring News Road Rallying Championship that would leave today's motoring journalists in cars with more than twice the power trailing far behind and quite rightly so. The lesson I learnt following that championship in '84 was that power is a far lesser factor than commitment. True commitment on public roads in anything less than an organised event is beyond crazy and long since banned as an organised event.

Fun in fast cars on public roads for decades is just playing. The stopwatch has long been redundant since the demise of targa time recording in the eighties...

[Tony33]

Max_Torque said:

And yet, as successive governments and organisations continue to myopically focus on raw speed as the root of all evil, and everyday i see hundreds of examples of poor driving that have nothing to do with raw speed. Things like in-attention, poor judgement, anger, discourteous driving, poor observation, inappropriate road positioning. If for every "example" motorist pinned up in court for exceeding some completely arbitrary velocity, we educated 2 others, our road system would be both more efficient and safer.........

+1

[Quhet]

Just test everything in the ISle of Man

[RocketRabbit]

900T-R said:

Of course, that old chestnut

Go on, convince every one that a bike is so much better as a tool for doing 100 mile a day commute when you know full well that the mortality rate per mile travelled is 30x higher for bikers compared to car occupants.

I like my work, but not that much.

No, you won't get rear ended when 'filtering', but of course the zombies in their 'connected' tin boxes [i]never[i] all of a sudden decide that the lane next to them seems to be progressing a bit quicker while on the phone, just when you are passing through on your bike. No siree, never happens.

For pleasure, the risk/reward ratio of biking probably makes sense. For getting into the office, well f**k me - I'd rather take half an hour longer than expose myself to roads chockful of people who are absorbed with lots of other things than driving - the statistics tend to agree with me.

Yep, I got those lane changers every day, but you can calculate when they are going to do it and I can module the throttle and cover the brake at the same time. Plus it gives you an excuse to fit a nice loud pipe

30 times more likely to have an incident, yet you have had three crashes in six months and I haven't had any. I like your statistics. Bikes punish c nuts. Bikes can turn you into a c nut quite easily. So if you're a c nut, you'll have an accident.

And yes that old chestnut. Trust me on this as I was a 'bikes are sh1 tty death traps' person for many years, you will not know until you get out there and pass your test. Only then will you see every grid, pot hole, bit of diesel, sheeny road surface, pebbles and everything else that in a car you'd never have noticed. Go and do your CBT. £100ish and then you can come back on here and legitimately tell me I'm talking b0ll0cks, instead of offering an opinion on something you have no experience with other than, as I have proved in your case, meaningless numbers.

Edited by RocketRabbit on Thursday 4th December 01:05

[T4NG0]

Re speed the turning point for me was realising I could only get a "buzz" from driving my GT3 when pushng on, at which point silly speeds came up quickly. Sold the car, bought a 140 bhp Caterham and never had so much fun at legal speeds

Also had fast bikes with last being a Triumph 675 Daytona. Once again so easy to do silly speeds. However when I took it in for a service they gave me a Speed Triple to try out. Without fairings it suddenly feels like your doing twice the speed, so you can have fun again within speed limits,

So my advice is , buy a car / bike where your more exposed to the elements and you'll get your fun at more sensible speeds . Just my humble 2p.

Dave

[BlimeyCharlie]

RocketRabbit said:

900T-R said:

RocketRabbit said:

Personally, people who now drive cars need to ride motorbikes. As a tool for the road a Motorbike is unbeatable as the 600s do 50mpg if treated adequately, 0-100 in 8 seconds, and don't get stuck in a traffic jam. Tax is £60 a year, insurance is cheap as are running costs. If you have the right gear, you don't get cold or wet.

I quite like my life (and in all probability you're not getting another one anyway unless you're a cat or Maxi Jazz), thanksverymuch.

I've been rear ended twice in six months (actually, three times, but the one of last evening was gentle and the car has probably been written off by the prior one not even two weeks before, anyway) when slowing down for traffic and I go by the assumption that if people fail to notice a big old bus with a very bright high level brake light in time, what chance do I have on a bike...

I like the idea of riding a bike, just not in traffic...

That's why you filter so you don't get rear ended. But since you aren't a biker, you know best and that makes lots of sense

A bike requires much more discipline than driving a car. The road today were nice and icy, but that isn't a problem so long as you adjust your riding style to suit. The problem is you associate motorcycle riding with the dry weather brigade and they can't really ride in anything else.

The more and more I see, the more a car is a useless tool for having fun in on the road because if there isn't a speed trap, there is a caravan 200 yards up the road and your twisty road nirvana is now a 10 mile slog waiting for a gap in the traffic you can overtake on.

I happen to agree with a lot of what both the above have to say.
A bike, for me, is both the solution and the problem.

I understand that you need to ride a bike different to driving a car, but I am disturbed at just how many people are unaware of anything that goes on around them when they drive their car or van etc. Or they just don't care.
The roads are awful too, holes appear and lumps of rock and mud in the road from construction lorries, plus diesel on roundabouts and surfaces that are worn out.
When I think about it, driving is bonkers, but I can't walk to work, no public transport alternative, don't like cycling as slow, cold and even more dangerous, so driving it is then.

[900T-R]

RocketRabbit said:

instead of offering an opinion on something you have no experience with other than, as I have proved in your case, meaningless numbers.

your n=1 against statistics for all drivers and bikers, bl00dy ingenious...

Per mile traveled, you are 30x as likely to die on a bike than in a car. Period. Everyone makes their own risk assessment and mine is that just for going to the office and back in rush hour traffic with all the associated aggrssion and thoughts meandering from the act of driving around you, it's not worth it. Why bikers alweays turn into evangelists when that point is raised, I don't know - concern about a shortage of donor organs perhaps?

In a quarter of a century and at least half a million miles (likely a lot more) of driving, including road testing hundreds of new cars here and abroad, I've been fortunate enough not to come to any personal harm. Yet I've been in two accidents that I can think of (one involving an unlit van coming out of a Brussels side street at an estimated 50 mph, the other a car deciding to make a U-turn on a dual carriage way very moment I was overtaking it - and no, I wasn't speeding) that I could only have avoided using telepathy, yet would have likely been fatal if I were on a bike.

I'd have thought realising how vulnerable you are, would be key to ones survival on a bike. All bikers I know personally, will only take their bike for commuting in the 'right' sort of conditions, and one or two have told me on occasion that 'if something like what happened this morning on my commute happens again, I'll stop riding altogether. It's just not worth it'. Commuting also means you have no choice - you'll be out there after a particularly bad night's sleep, when you're coming down with a cold, problems on your mind... Your workplace is expecting you regardless.

Truth be told, I refrain from taking my TVR out when I'm not in tip top order mentally or physically - I wouldn't enjoy it enough to offset the increased risk.

[BlackPrince]

Just curious how long you've been riding RocketRabbit?

I ask because your fervour reminds of that old quote "there is no greater zealot than the fresh convert" or something like that.

Not everyone wants to concentrate that much on their way to work nor deal with inclement weather. Riding to work often makes me feel alive but after the a few days in a row of rainy cold weather, it starts to feel about as soul destroying as sitting in a car in traffic, or being jammed in the tube/train.

[juansolo]

article said:

But as fast cars get ever faster and the chasm between their area of competence and legal limit on the road gets ever wider

The crux of the problem nailed on the head there and the problem I have with the way sports cars have gone. More and more power and grip, faster times around a pointless 12 mile ribbon of tarmac that is in no way representative of driving on public roads. Faster times around tracks that are only appropriate to track cars.

I've been there and done it. Taken a perfectly good Caterfield and in making it good for track, ruined it for the road. My brother has a Porsche Spyder and it has so much poke and grip that to get the car moving and responding, you have to be way north of the speed limit. Otherwise it's so competent that it's actually dull. I intentionally have the smallest engined Cayman with narrow tyres on it so it allows me to play with it's much lower limits without fearing for my license all the time.

Hell, I drove a mk1 MX5 for the first time in a long time recently. Barely enough power to pull the skin off a rice pudding. But a beautifully balanced car on 185 tyres that allowed an amount of movement at under legal speeds that was not just refreshing, it had me contemplating selling the Cayman and doing a swap for one.

We've become obsessed with going faster. Christ even my old Scooby, even given how bloody quick that was on the roads, it's limits were nowhere near what modern stuff is these days. Add to this the ever increasing number of driver aids (I'm including flappy paddle boxes here) that make going even faster even easier. To get a thrill out of driving a 911 you have to double the speed limit and lose your license. None of it makes sense on modern roads. There's too much traffic, too much emphasis on speed kills and demonising quick driving. Everything is against the enthusiastic motorist and yet we keep making cars faster instead of making them more fun.

Cars like the GT86 and the Caterham 160R are steps in the right direction. But there are precious few doing it. We don't help that when these cars come along, people bh and moan that they're not powerful enough and should have much wider tyres. Essentially we are part of the problem, as are journalists with their obsession race tracks and timing. Manufacturers too, each new model must be faster than the last and have more power. I know you've got to have a way of comparing, but fastest is not always best. The older I get the more I realise this.

Edited by juansolo on Thursday 4th December 10:20

[900T-R]

juansolo said:

Cars like the GT86 and the Caterham 160R are steps in the right direction. But there's precious few doing it. We don't help that when these cars come along, people bh and moan that they're not powerful enough and should have much wider tyres. Essentially we are part of the problem, as are journalists with their obsession race tracks and timing. I know you've got to have a way of comparing, but fastest is not always best. The older I get the more I realise this.

With you there all the way. The other problem with me is valuing a charismatic drivetrain as an essential for a 'fun' car in a day and age where the power outputs of anything with more than four cylinders are being pushed into hypercar territory due to (theoretical emissions of) CO2 hysteria...