RE: BMW Z3 M Coupe: Catch It While You Can

[ClarkyboyS]

billywhizzzzzz said:

lord trumpton said:

Joking apart; Ive owned 2 Z3M Coupes, 4 Z3M Roadsters (all S50 mind) and 1 Z4M Roadster. I don't feel that the Z4M's - roadster or coupe are worthy of the M moniker.

Apart from the sparkling S54 being dropped in theres very little effort gone into making it a special Z4 to drive. Hard, uncompromising suspension. snap oversteer and a few M badges thrown in its direction do not really lift it to the M status.

Although the Z4 based items are faster and quicker than the Z3 range; they at least have enough changes and quicks to induce a smile and make them special.

Z4M? Well the brakes are from the CSL. And compared with the Z4, as well as the S45 they changed the suspension. steering. gearbox, exhaust, diff - actually all the running gear and some of the body parts. Kind of what they did with the E46 M3 when compared with a 330i. Chucked an S54 in and a few badges on? I don't think so. Be interesting what MORE you think they should have done?

Agred 100%

the standard z4 coupe doesnt even rate on the same scale as the M, infact id go as far to say that there are more parts that are different than common.

[Mr Whippy]

They could have gone a bit further though...

I think they could have done with the entire range really. They're all just a bit too hair-dressery out of the box.

Dave

[GTRene]

Clivey said:

Wow; that really does show the size difference! I wonder what it'd look like next to a current Z4 (or 370Z, Boxster, TT etc.).

[GTRene]

This is a nice fotoshoot too>















http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=...

I see if I can find M coupe vs M coupe Z4

[GTRene]

[Mr Whippy]

What's with the flat seats in the new Z4?

Looks like you'll slide into the doors or transmission tunnel all too easily.

The worst part about my Z4 was the crap standard seats. A complete joke for a car you might want to, shock horror, go around a bend at more than about 0.3 lateral G.


Is there a sports seat option on the new Z4?

Dave

[GTRene]

Mr Whippy said:

What's with the flat seats in the new Z4?

Looks like you'll slide into the doors or transmission tunnel all too easily.

The worst part about my Z4 was the crap standard seats. A complete joke for a car you might want to, shock horror, go around a bend at more than about 0.3 lateral G.


Is there a sports seat option on the new Z4?

Dave

I just took a look, yes you can choose the sport seat option>

http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E89/Europe/Z4_35...



ah picture>



http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Z4-E89-SDRIVE-20I-M-...

Edited by GTRene on Wednesday 10th December 16:34

[billywhizzzzzz]

Mr Whippy said:

They could have gone a bit further though...

I think they could have done with the entire range really. They're all just a bit too hair-dressery out of the box.

Dave

sorry, what on earth are you talking about? Gone further how?

[Mr Whippy]

billywhizzzzzz said:

Mr Whippy said:

They could have gone a bit further though...

I think they could have done with the entire range really. They're all just a bit too hair-dressery out of the box.

Dave

sorry, what on earth are you talking about? Gone further how?

My 2004 Z4, out of the box, didn't even sound like a 6 cylinder engine made by one of the finest straight 6 builders in the world.

Having sampled an 89 325i, and Alpina E28 6 pot cars over the years I was familiar with how good a 6 pot BMW was... but was a bit disappointed by the Z4.

Rides like crap. They could have gone further by making it not ride like crap.

Steering is too light at high speed, but then 'heavy' feeling at low speed. It should be the other way around. They could have gone further by making the steering feel more like a conventional PAS system.

Sport button was a perfect way to have optional better sound, like the 330Ci flappy exhaust. Sport on, fun sound. Makes sense to me.


Sports seats should have been standard from the start. Who wants those stty bench seats? I just found myself hanging off the steering wheel when cornering, further making any steering feel there was impossible to feel.


Engine delivery is quite low-endy. Later 3.0Si model fixed that with a peakier feeling top end. This kinda car could easily run a hotter set up like those 330Ci Clubsports in the USA did (can't remember their names but they had a higher power high rpm cam iirc)



Of course, I like the car, but I've had to spend a fair bit of money to make mine nice. I've no idea what kind of person would want a Z4 in it's standard form unless they were a hairdresser buying the image only.


The Z range should be all about driving... but given the latest Z4 it's clear BMW are deviating further and further from that idea and just turning them into showy cruisers.

Which is sad because cars like this should be aspirational for *drivers*, not hair dressers.

Dave

[GTRene]

something like this would be better ala Z4 GT3, also the great V8 under the bonnet.





sounds like>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3zWcTAmXb8

[ClarkyboyS]

Mr Whippy said:

billywhizzzzzz said:

Mr Whippy said:

They could have gone a bit further though...

I think they could have done with the entire range really. They're all just a bit too hair-dressery out of the box.

Dave

sorry, what on earth are you talking about? Gone further how?

My 2004 Z4, out of the box, didn't even sound like a 6 cylinder engine made by one of the finest straight 6 builders in the world.

Having sampled an 89 325i, and Alpina E28 6 pot cars over the years I was familiar with how good a 6 pot BMW was... but was a bit disappointed by the Z4.

Rides like crap. They could have gone further by making it not ride like crap.

Steering is too light at high speed, but then 'heavy' feeling at low speed. It should be the other way around. They could have gone further by making the steering feel more like a conventional PAS system.

Sport button was a perfect way to have optional better sound, like the 330Ci flappy exhaust. Sport on, fun sound. Makes sense to me.


Sports seats should have been standard from the start. Who wants those stty bench seats? I just found myself hanging off the steering wheel when cornering, further making any steering feel there was impossible to feel.


Engine delivery is quite low-endy. Later 3.0Si model fixed that with a peakier feeling top end. This kinda car could easily run a hotter set up like those 330Ci Clubsports in the USA did (can't remember their names but they had a higher power high rpm cam iirc)



Of course, I like the car, but I've had to spend a fair bit of money to make mine nice. I've no idea what kind of person would want a Z4 in it's standard form unless they were a hairdresser buying the image only.


The Z range should be all about driving... but given the latest Z4 it's clear BMW are deviating further and further from that idea and just turning them into showy cruisers.

Which is sad because cars like this should be aspirational for *drivers*, not hair dressers.

Dave

Out of interest what Z4 do you have!?

based on having owned quite a few M cars, including a z4mc and currently using a z3mc as a daily im not quite sure where you are coming from?

[Mr Whippy]

ClarkyboyS said:

Mr Whippy said:

billywhizzzzzz said:

Mr Whippy said:

They could have gone a bit further though...

I think they could have done with the entire range really. They're all just a bit too hair-dressery out of the box.

Dave

sorry, what on earth are you talking about? Gone further how?

My 2004 Z4, out of the box, didn't even sound like a 6 cylinder engine made by one of the finest straight 6 builders in the world.

Having sampled an 89 325i, and Alpina E28 6 pot cars over the years I was familiar with how good a 6 pot BMW was... but was a bit disappointed by the Z4.

Rides like crap. They could have gone further by making it not ride like crap.

Steering is too light at high speed, but then 'heavy' feeling at low speed. It should be the other way around. They could have gone further by making the steering feel more like a conventional PAS system.

Sport button was a perfect way to have optional better sound, like the 330Ci flappy exhaust. Sport on, fun sound. Makes sense to me.


Sports seats should have been standard from the start. Who wants those stty bench seats? I just found myself hanging off the steering wheel when cornering, further making any steering feel there was impossible to feel.


Engine delivery is quite low-endy. Later 3.0Si model fixed that with a peakier feeling top end. This kinda car could easily run a hotter set up like those 330Ci Clubsports in the USA did (can't remember their names but they had a higher power high rpm cam iirc)



Of course, I like the car, but I've had to spend a fair bit of money to make mine nice. I've no idea what kind of person would want a Z4 in it's standard form unless they were a hairdresser buying the image only.


The Z range should be all about driving... but given the latest Z4 it's clear BMW are deviating further and further from that idea and just turning them into showy cruisers.

Which is sad because cars like this should be aspirational for *drivers*, not hair dressers.

Dave

Out of interest what Z4 do you have!?

based on having owned quite a few M cars, including a z4mc and currently using a z3mc as a daily im not quite sure where you are coming from?

I have a 3.0i.

The Z4MC has a fantastic engine, and they all come with the nice seats as standard, but at the time my budget was much more comfy at £10,000 than £20,000. And the M didn't feel twice as good.
Had the Z4MC been an M Roadster I could have seen myself buying it though.

But still not a patch on a CSL for the noise and feeling of being a bit more focussed... surely that is what you want in an M Roadster?

Dave

[ClarkyboyS]

Mr Whippy said:

ClarkyboyS said:

Mr Whippy said:

billywhizzzzzz said:

Mr Whippy said:

They could have gone a bit further though...

I think they could have done with the entire range really. They're all just a bit too hair-dressery out of the box.

Dave

sorry, what on earth are you talking about? Gone further how?

My 2004 Z4, out of the box, didn't even sound like a 6 cylinder engine made by one of the finest straight 6 builders in the world.

Having sampled an 89 325i, and Alpina E28 6 pot cars over the years I was familiar with how good a 6 pot BMW was... but was a bit disappointed by the Z4.

Rides like crap. They could have gone further by making it not ride like crap.

Steering is too light at high speed, but then 'heavy' feeling at low speed. It should be the other way around. They could have gone further by making the steering feel more like a conventional PAS system.

Sport button was a perfect way to have optional better sound, like the 330Ci flappy exhaust. Sport on, fun sound. Makes sense to me.


Sports seats should have been standard from the start. Who wants those stty bench seats? I just found myself hanging off the steering wheel when cornering, further making any steering feel there was impossible to feel.


Engine delivery is quite low-endy. Later 3.0Si model fixed that with a peakier feeling top end. This kinda car could easily run a hotter set up like those 330Ci Clubsports in the USA did (can't remember their names but they had a higher power high rpm cam iirc)



Of course, I like the car, but I've had to spend a fair bit of money to make mine nice. I've no idea what kind of person would want a Z4 in it's standard form unless they were a hairdresser buying the image only.


The Z range should be all about driving... but given the latest Z4 it's clear BMW are deviating further and further from that idea and just turning them into showy cruisers.

Which is sad because cars like this should be aspirational for *drivers*, not hair dressers.

Dave

Out of interest what Z4 do you have!?

based on having owned quite a few M cars, including a z4mc and currently using a z3mc as a daily im not quite sure where you are coming from?

I have a 3.0i.

The Z4MC has a fantastic engine, and they all come with the nice seats as standard, but at the time my budget was much more comfy at £10,000 than £20,000. And the M didn't feel twice as good.
Had the Z4MC been an M Roadster I could have seen myself buying it though.

But still not a patch on a CSL for the noise and feeling of being a bit more focussed... surely that is what you want in an M Roadster?

Dave

This is just not a subject we are going to agree on i guess.

The 3ltr whilst a very good car for the money (i have driven one a few times, my mate has anice grey one) is, in my opinion IS half the car of the Z4MC.

the e46 CSL has a really crap gearbox, agreed it does sound epic, thats thanks to a £10k carbon airbox.

I race an E36 Coupe with an S54 lump, CSL cams and Geoff Steel airbox, so i wont argue about the noise at all,

But, when you say focussed.... the Z4M in the right hands will show the CSl a good challenge on track (so is a CSL worth double again?), its lighter, has a lower COG, has a very good manual gearbox and the driving position lends it self well to feeling what the car is doing around you.

Having owned and tracked all of the M cars that I have had I can safely say that the z4m is the best of them all (apart from the racecar obviously).

That said - these cars are all leagues ahead of their market peers. I'd have the 3ltr Z4 over a merc slwhatever, a tt or 370z etc.

But given the choice to own any of my M cars again, it would be the Z4M without a doubt

[Mr Whippy]

No doubt it's good, but I think it could be more focussed that's all.

There are still concessions to comforts and considerations that these cars shouldn't need to worry about really.


I suppose like many cars, you'll mod them to be what you want them to be. In my case I've raided the OEM parts bins from other cars or tweaked around with what is already there and it's nice as it is now.

It's just surprising when an off the shelf BMW product, despite all the stuff about ultimate driving machine and perfect balance etc, can come with completely st seats and an exhaust as standard

The M doesn't fall for that with the standard M sport seat (without panelled side bolsters either ), and a limited slip diff as standard, and no RFT as standard, and so on.


It's still also one of my fave cars, and one I'd upgrade to now if I were still in the market for that kinda car... but there is still that niggling that it's missing something that the CSL brings. Maybe it's just the noise and carbon/alcantara interior panels?!

Dave

[e21Mark]

I find it much like the E30 M3, in as much as it needs a few choice mods to take it towards its full potential. Had it come with those mods from the factory it would be deemed as being just that bit too extreme.

I think they have so much potential and when people personalise them with decent seats, better brakes etc they're just all the better for it.

[ClarkyboyS]

Mr Whippy said:

No doubt it's good, but I think it could be more focussed that's all.

There are still concessions to comforts and considerations that these cars shouldn't need to worry about really.


I suppose like many cars, you'll mod them to be what you want them to be. In my case I've raided the OEM parts bins from other cars or tweaked around with what is already there and it's nice as it is now.

It's just surprising when an off the shelf BMW product, despite all the stuff about ultimate driving machine and perfect balance etc, can come with completely st seats and an exhaust as standard

The M doesn't fall for that with the standard M sport seat (without panelled side bolsters either ), and a limited slip diff as standard, and no RFT as standard, and so on.


It's still also one of my fave cars, and one I'd upgrade to now if I were still in the market for that kinda car... but there is still that niggling that it's missing something that the CSL brings. Maybe it's just the noise and carbon/alcantara interior panels?!

Dave

I agree on alot of that,

however, if it were to be stripped and bare, you would be as well with an exige i guess.

would have loved to see a proper CSL Z4MC with the alacantra etc.... and THOSE seats!

E21 Mark has probably hit the nail on the head

[billywhizzzzzz]

Mr Whippy said:

billywhizzzzzz said:

Mr Whippy said:

They could have gone a bit further though...

I think they could have done with the entire range really. They're all just a bit too hair-dressery out of the box.

Dave

sorry, what on earth are you talking about? Gone further how?

My 2004 Z4, out of the box, didn't even sound like a 6 cylinder engine made by one of the finest straight 6 builders in the world.

Having sampled an 89 325i, and Alpina E28 6 pot cars over the years I was familiar with how good a 6 pot BMW was... but was a bit disappointed by the Z4.

Rides like crap. They could have gone further by making it not ride like crap.

Steering is too light at high speed, but then 'heavy' feeling at low speed. It should be the other way around. They could have gone further by making the steering feel more like a conventional PAS system.

Sport button was a perfect way to have optional better sound, like the 330Ci flappy exhaust. Sport on, fun sound. Makes sense to me.


Sports seats should have been standard from the start. Who wants those stty bench seats? I just found myself hanging off the steering wheel when cornering, further making any steering feel there was impossible to feel.


Engine delivery is quite low-endy. Later 3.0Si model fixed that with a peakier feeling top end. This kinda car could easily run a hotter set up like those 330Ci Clubsports in the USA did (can't remember their names but they had a higher power high rpm cam iirc)



Of course, I like the car, but I've had to spend a fair bit of money to make mine nice. I've no idea what kind of person would want a Z4 in it's standard form unless they were a hairdresser buying the image only.


The Z range should be all about driving... but given the latest Z4 it's clear BMW are deviating further and further from that idea and just turning them into showy cruisers.

Which is sad because cars like this should be aspirational for *drivers*, not hair dressers.

Dave

Sorry, thought the thread was about the M

I upgraded to a Z4M from a 3.0i and was it twice the car? Yes. Actually, three times is what I paid, and worth every penny. As I've said earlier in the thread, there's almost nothing shared with the standard car, and it feels better, more able, more special and more of an event in every way.

The three litre car is good enough, but not enough of an event to drive. Like you, I found the engine strangely anodyne after other BM sixes I'd had. The Z4M is in another world completely.

For what is worth, pretty much all the reviews of the non M z4 called it far too hardcore and uncompromising when it came out. I bought a 3.0 second hand as I couldn't afford a good boxster S at the time - when I could, drove a Boxster S but wanted something that felt more special and with an engine that dominates.

I'm not too sure either who bought 3 litre Z4s when the were new - the smart money would have gone on a boxster and the hairdressers would have been put off by the hardcore ride.

[CRA1G]

Way off the thread title now....!


But nothing changes.....!

[GTRene]

thats right, further on with the lovely Z3 M coupe,

a known member of our Dutch car forum owns since short a nice BMW Z3 Coupe GTR.

some specs>

said:

BMW Z3 M Coupe chassis
Hewland NMT 6-speed transaxle versnellingsbak/diff (gereviseerd)
Volledige nieuw gereviseerde 3.2L S50B32 met 390PK (hp) (naar zeggen)
Drysump systeem
Ohnlins schokdempers
BMW motorsport GTR wielnaven met center lock
Carbon air intake
AP Racing BBK Front
Brembo GTR BBK Rear
Alles van lichtgewicht materiaal gemaakt
100 Liter tank (endurance)
etc etc

Auto weegt 1050KG (weight) en is uiteraard volledig uitgewogen/gebalanceerd.

Foto:s











and the sound...

here when not in his hands a video from the web, just watch a minute or so>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61dtxuRC0Zg

and here a bit to short but even better sound how it sounds now and a short test drive when he just got it>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVHm3uaDKgU

jummie...

[Mr Whippy]

CRA1G said:

Way off the thread title now....!


But nothing changes.....!

Well not really.

To appreciate the old you have to see where BMW are taking the new... and it's clear that the old is so well regarded because the new just isn't holding a light to the older cars ethos generally.

Which is weird. You'd assume if people want to spend £20,000+ on an old bread van, there must be a bit of a market for a new equivalent?!

Dave