996 GT3 (mk2) or TVR Sagaris
Discussion
Darkslider said:
If I was spending that much money on a car, I would want it to make me stand there looking at it for five minutes after opening the garage door before even getting in it. And when I got to my destination and parked up, I want a car that I can't walk away from in the car park without turning around to look at it.
As good as they are, a 911 is never going to do that to anyone. I see too many of them (in various guises) on a day to day basis, while a very good car they lose that special something a rarer car has.
So for me it'd be the Sag, no question.
100% agree with this. The Porsche would be more useable but the Sagaris would have you grinning like a loon. It's about the special feeling for me.As good as they are, a 911 is never going to do that to anyone. I see too many of them (in various guises) on a day to day basis, while a very good car they lose that special something a rarer car has.
So for me it'd be the Sag, no question.
Me when I see a 996 GT3 - 
Me when I see a Sagaris -
I'm an automotive engineer so encounter many high end, high performance cars on a regular basis. Most ferrari's, lambo's and porsche's etc I won't even take a second look at as I see them so often, but if I saw a sagaris I would definitely have a good stare!
Me when I see a Sagaris -
I'm an automotive engineer so encounter many high end, high performance cars on a regular basis. Most ferrari's, lambo's and porsche's etc I won't even take a second look at as I see them so often, but if I saw a sagaris I would definitely have a good stare!
I would say the GT3 myself for sure think it would be a better driving experience and unlike most 911s the engine is bulletproof as well.
Love the sagaris but issue for me is you can get a T350 for £20k spent £8k on a 4.3 rebuild better suspension and for around £35k all in have a car that has more power and it as good to drive as a sag for near enough 1/2 the price.
Love the sagaris but issue for me is you can get a T350 for £20k spent £8k on a 4.3 rebuild better suspension and for around £35k all in have a car that has more power and it as good to drive as a sag for near enough 1/2 the price.
I was in a similar position a while back, I went for the GT3.
I had always wanted a GT3 and even though I loved the Sagaris the worry about the engine and reliability issues swayed me towards the GT3
I now know that the Sagaris is a very reliable car and if looked after will serve you well but for me and my use (euro tours and weekend trips) the GT3 fit the bill much more thoroughly as its relatively quiet and refined on the motorway but mental on the twisties.
Both are appreciating and you cant go wrong with either IMO
The question you have to ask yourself is this:
If you get the Sagaris and a GT3 drives past, will you look at it longingly?
If you get the GT3 and a Sagaris drives past, will you look at it longingly?
A while back, I was in mine and a Red Sagaris went past me, it sounded amazing! A couple of weeks later I got a better exhaust for my GT3
I had always wanted a GT3 and even though I loved the Sagaris the worry about the engine and reliability issues swayed me towards the GT3
I now know that the Sagaris is a very reliable car and if looked after will serve you well but for me and my use (euro tours and weekend trips) the GT3 fit the bill much more thoroughly as its relatively quiet and refined on the motorway but mental on the twisties.
Both are appreciating and you cant go wrong with either IMO
The question you have to ask yourself is this:
If you get the Sagaris and a GT3 drives past, will you look at it longingly?
If you get the GT3 and a Sagaris drives past, will you look at it longingly?
A while back, I was in mine and a Red Sagaris went past me, it sounded amazing! A couple of weeks later I got a better exhaust for my GT3
I was at one time considering a Sagaris. But I realised I couldn't ask for anything more from the GT3 driving experience as the car is essentially the same design brief: a race car that took a wrong turn off the track and ended up on the road. (Except only one of them actually has motorsport provenance).
Everyone of course has different opinions. The world would be a boring place otherwise. But I am somewhat baffled as to the love for the Sagaris purely on looks and presence (and yes it does look amazing). Traditionally the debate was often 996 GT3 vs the F360 or the F430. Uusually it was a dead heat: those who wanted that indefinable presence went for the Ferrari, those for whom the driving experience mattered above all else went for the Porsche.
Personally if I were to pick a TVR it would be a Griffith 500 as it offers something materially different to the GT3. In fact I'm off to look at the classifieds...
Everyone of course has different opinions. The world would be a boring place otherwise. But I am somewhat baffled as to the love for the Sagaris purely on looks and presence (and yes it does look amazing). Traditionally the debate was often 996 GT3 vs the F360 or the F430. Uusually it was a dead heat: those who wanted that indefinable presence went for the Ferrari, those for whom the driving experience mattered above all else went for the Porsche.
Personally if I were to pick a TVR it would be a Griffith 500 as it offers something materially different to the GT3. In fact I'm off to look at the classifieds...
greggy50 said:
Love the sagaris but issue for me is you can get a T350 for £20k spent £8k on a 4.3 rebuild better suspension and for around £35k all in have a car that has more power and it as good to drive as a sag for near enough 1/2 the price.
Now I seriously want a sagaris at some point, but this is the one thing that would really tempt me, the T350 looks wonderful too, although obviously not as bonkers as the sag with its bubble roof and slashed front wings. Value wise sags are holding and even increasing in value, they cost more now than when they were brand new, original owner's must be marveling at the fact they drive an immense motor and loosing nothing in value, how often does that happen.Harris_I said:
Personally if I were to pick a TVR it would be a Griffith 500 as it offers something materially different to the GT3. In fact I'm off to look at the classifieds...
Now this man speaks sense .....Sag for me. 911 GT cars have always seemed to serious for me to be classed as 'fun', and you can sort of see that from the responses to this thread.
The GT3 is undoubtedly the better car, but the Sagaris is going to be more fun, even if that fun is remembering the time it left you 70 miles from home in the pissing rain, or threw you backwards into a hedge etc...
The GT3 is undoubtedly the better car, but the Sagaris is going to be more fun, even if that fun is remembering the time it left you 70 miles from home in the pissing rain, or threw you backwards into a hedge etc...
greggy50 said:
I would say the GT3 myself for sure think it would be a better driving experience and unlike most 911s the engine is bulletproof as well.
Love the sagaris but issue for me is you can get a T350 for £20k spent £8k on a 4.3 rebuild better suspension and for around £35k all in have a car that has more power and it as good to drive as a sag for near enough 1/2 the price.
Problem is the Sagaris is a big improvement over the older Tvr models and driving one of the older models after driving the Sagaris really brings this home, even though it looks mental it really is a pussycat to drive and could certainly be used every day and is very composed on the road, it really is as good as a 996 gt3 which did surprise me. I'm not sure if just better suspension on the older Tvr models is enough to get them to compete with the overall feel of a Sagaris.Love the sagaris but issue for me is you can get a T350 for £20k spent £8k on a 4.3 rebuild better suspension and for around £35k all in have a car that has more power and it as good to drive as a sag for near enough 1/2 the price.
Lotus E300S said:
Problem is the Sagaris is a big improvement over the older Tvr models and driving one of the older models after driving the Sagaris really brings this home, even though it looks mental it really is a pussycat to drive and could certainly be used every day and is very composed on the road, it really is as good as a 996 gt3 which did surprise me. I'm not sure if just better suspension on the older Tvr models is enough to get them to compete with the overall feel of a Sagaris.
The T350 is only a couple of years older than a Sagaris I am sure if you spent £4/5k on some fancy suspension and dampers it could be made to drive just as nice as the Sagaris.The chassis is the same, only the pick up points are extended outwards on the Sagaris. The wishbones are the same length if I recall correctly.
2004+ T350's had same size a/roll bars as Sagaris as well
Above information is from a bit of research I am not a geek!
But do believe with the 4.3 and better suspension a T350 could be just as nice as a Sag except quicker in a straight line...
greggy50 said:
Lotus E300S said:
Problem is the Sagaris is a big improvement over the older Tvr models and driving one of the older models after driving the Sagaris really brings this home, even though it looks mental it really is a pussycat to drive and could certainly be used every day and is very composed on the road, it really is as good as a 996 gt3 which did surprise me. I'm not sure if just better suspension on the older Tvr models is enough to get them to compete with the overall feel of a Sagaris.
The T350 is only a couple of years older than a Sagaris I am sure if you spent £4/5k on some fancy suspension and dampers it could be made to drive just as nice as the Sagaris.The chassis is the same, only the pick up points are extended outwards on the Sagaris. The wishbones are the same length if I recall correctly.
2004+ T350's had same size a/roll bars as Sagaris as well
Above information is from a bit of research I am not a geek!
But do believe with the 4.3 and better suspension a T350 could be just as nice as a Sag except quicker in a straight line...
Harris_I said:
I was at one time considering a Sagaris. But I realised I couldn't ask for anything more from the GT3 driving experience as the car is essentially the same design brief: a race car that took a wrong turn off the track and ended up on the road. (Except only one of them actually has motorsport provenance).
Everyone of course has different opinions. The world would be a boring place otherwise. But I am somewhat baffled as to the love for the Sagaris purely on looks and presence (and yes it does look amazing). Traditionally the debate was often 996 GT3 vs the F360 or the F430. Uusually it was a dead heat: those who wanted that indefinable presence went for the Ferrari, those for whom the driving experience mattered above all else went for the Porsche.
Personally if I were to pick a TVR it would be a Griffith 500 as it offers something materially different to the GT3. In fact I'm off to look at the classifieds...
I had a good drive in a 360 and even though it sounded wonderful it didn't drive as well as the Gt3 or Sagaris and it didn't feel that quick.Everyone of course has different opinions. The world would be a boring place otherwise. But I am somewhat baffled as to the love for the Sagaris purely on looks and presence (and yes it does look amazing). Traditionally the debate was often 996 GT3 vs the F360 or the F430. Uusually it was a dead heat: those who wanted that indefinable presence went for the Ferrari, those for whom the driving experience mattered above all else went for the Porsche.
Personally if I were to pick a TVR it would be a Griffith 500 as it offers something materially different to the GT3. In fact I'm off to look at the classifieds...
greggy50 said:
The T350 is only a couple of years older than a Sagaris I am sure if you spent £4/5k on some fancy suspension and dampers it could be made to drive just as nice as the Sagaris.
The chassis is the same, only the pick up points are extended outwards on the Sagaris. The wishbones are the same length if I recall correctly.
2004+ T350's had same size a/roll bars as Sagaris as well
Above information is from a bit of research I am not a geek!
But do believe with the 4.3 and better suspension a T350 could be just as nice as a Sag except quicker in a straight line...
Yes I have heard these 4.3-4.5 speed six engines are very good.The chassis is the same, only the pick up points are extended outwards on the Sagaris. The wishbones are the same length if I recall correctly.
2004+ T350's had same size a/roll bars as Sagaris as well
Above information is from a bit of research I am not a geek!
But do believe with the 4.3 and better suspension a T350 could be just as nice as a Sag except quicker in a straight line...
Not sure it would be all that easy to copy the revised suspension geometry of the Sagaris on a T350. Chassis pickup points for wishbones and dampers are lower and wider meaning an approx 2" wider track on the Sag. Doing the same on a T350 would mean having to fit wheel arch extensions of some sort.
TA14 said:
All of the T-cars use the same chassis, that's why they're called T-cars. As you point out the Sagaris has different pick up points to the others though. I think you'd be hard pushed to achieve the costings that you mention: A good T350c would be a private sale for £20K, then + £9K for the engine leaves £6K for the suspension. If you wanted full fat Sagaris suspension then the Plasticman has done it on his Tamora to convertible Sagaris transformations but you end up with a wider track so you need bodywork alterations which means paint which can be a lot for some choices.
If you was doing the 4.3 conversion would probably be best buying a T350 with a dodgy engine to re-coup some money back that way...Not sure if £35k all in would cover but if spent money careful I don't think it would be too far off. With a decent Sag now being £60k? It would certainly be something to consider just depends if car is going to be a "keeper" or not as obviously wont hold its value like a sag.
greggy50 said:
Not sure if £35k all in would cover but if spent money careful I don't think it would be too far off. With a decent Sag now being £60k? It would certainly be something to consider just depends if car is going to be a "keeper" or not as obviously wont hold its value like a sag.
If you look at the PH classifieds now the most expensive price is £60K and the cheapest is £46K and they're all from dealers so it's perhaps feasible that private sales would be £40K upwards? I'm saying that I don't think that you can do a full conversion for half the cost of a Sag and by the time you add in other bits (like the larger dia manifold, the rear spoiler, the front winglets...) your £35K is getting very close to a Sag value. 4.3 T350s seem to fetch below £30K.I like the T350c style better but I don't think that a T350c modified to as close Sag spec as possible as a way of having a cheaper Sag makes sense. As is usually the case just buy the car that you like.
TA14 said:
If you look at the PH classifieds now the most expensive price is £60K and the cheapest is £46K and they're all from dealers so it's perhaps feasible that private sales would be £40K upwards? I'm saying that I don't think that you can do a full conversion for half the cost of a Sag and by the time you add in other bits (like the larger dia manifold, the rear spoiler, the front winglets...) your £35K is getting very close to a Sag value. 4.3 T350s seem to fetch below £30K.
I like the T350c style better but I don't think that a T350c modified to as close Sag spec as possible as a way of having a cheaper Sag makes sense. As is usually the case just buy the car that you like.
It was more of a 1/2 way house thingI like the T350c style better but I don't think that a T350c modified to as close Sag spec as possible as a way of having a cheaper Sag makes sense. As is usually the case just buy the car that you like.
I never realised the Sag was that cheap though I has assumed they were all £60k+ now if can get a decent one for £45k then I agree would be pointless pursuing the modified T350 route as a cheaper option unless you can find one that has already had the engine work done.
I do prefer the styling of the T350 myself though lot more classy design I think the Sag is a bit too outlandish and fussy personally.
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