RE: Porsche 944 Turbo: PH Carpool
Discussion
Lowtimer said:
The scrapyard is fine if you don't mind using old parts, which are OK for a lot of purposes. Tailgate glasses are a classic of something that I would not want to have to buy a new one of, as they are fantastically expensive: in fact I am well stocked up on spare glass generall, all from dead cars. I've got a few second hand parts on mine, including the bonnet and the tailgate.
But things like 20 year old external and internal trim just look terrible when you are restoring a car and many individual small components - I think the total ran well over 100 items - were easily available as factory new stuff, inexpensively priced and of the quality I wanted when I did mine. I also had factory wings, sills and rear quarters.
Mechanical stuff: I am happy to restore things like used starters and wiper motors myself as I can rewind a motor and replace the bearings and bushes quite happily, but for lots of mechanical components I have absolutely no interest in using things two or three decades old of unknown provenance, if I can buy factory new stuff and usually end up with a lot less labour time/cost in the equation.
To me, trim doesn't really matter as these are £xxx cars and noone expects them to be nice.But things like 20 year old external and internal trim just look terrible when you are restoring a car and many individual small components - I think the total ran well over 100 items - were easily available as factory new stuff, inexpensively priced and of the quality I wanted when I did mine. I also had factory wings, sills and rear quarters.
Mechanical stuff: I am happy to restore things like used starters and wiper motors myself as I can rewind a motor and replace the bearings and bushes quite happily, but for lots of mechanical components I have absolutely no interest in using things two or three decades old of unknown provenance, if I can buy factory new stuff and usually end up with a lot less labour time/cost in the equation.
On the subject of glass, I agree totally, and actually have a spare hatch (which I got for £20 from a scrappy, along with numerous "undeclared" items in the tool bag), lying around.
I don't understand why anyone who is paid decently would own such a cheap and disreputable car. My time is basically worthless so it's no problem for me to fix the same thing repeatedly.
Raize said:
To me, trim doesn't really matter as these are £xxx cars and noone expects them to be nice.
On the subject of glass, I agree totally, and actually have a spare hatch (which I got for £20 from a scrappy, along with numerous "undeclared" items in the tool bag), lying around.
I don't understand why anyone who is paid decently would own such a cheap and disreputable car. My time is basically worthless so it's no problem for me to fix the same thing repeatedly.
I expect mine to be nice, and do what it takes, or get it done.On the subject of glass, I agree totally, and actually have a spare hatch (which I got for £20 from a scrappy, along with numerous "undeclared" items in the tool bag), lying around.
I don't understand why anyone who is paid decently would own such a cheap and disreputable car. My time is basically worthless so it's no problem for me to fix the same thing repeatedly.
My time is expensive and scarce so I quite often use money to free up time and get most of the heavy lifting done by suitably qualified professionals. Cars aren't a status symbol for me: I am lucky enough to be able to run pretty much whatever I like, and only have to please myself, so that's what I do.
For me it is an open-ended commitment. I intend my 944 to be as good in another 20 years as it is today, despite teh use that it gets. I see no reason why I should ever need to let it get ratty.
Raize said:
I don't understand why anyone who is paid decently would own such a cheap and disreputable car. My time is basically worthless so it's no problem for me to fix the same thing repeatedly.
Disreputable? Cheap? Have you seen what the prices of Turbos are doing versus the Boxster?The build quality of them is so much higher than modern Eurogrotboxes and the 'Toyota' Porsches that came along in the mid '90s
Don't forget that a 944T was more expensive and faster than a 911SC in 1989, which makes them a bargain now, rather than cheap
On the subject of parts, Porsche can be cheaper for some items than pattern part suppliers, and the service is excellent. I got a new gear lever and mounting cup delivered straight from Germany to my house in 3 days for £38.
Mike Bell runs a near standard 924 in both 1 hour races and 6 hour endurance. The car won't break or fail.
Apart from a few usual upgrades it runs and goes. VW parts bin? I think it's glorious to run 30+ year old cars and finish. Somehow it proves you can't go wrong on a well maintained car.
Fascinating video on the building of 944 and 928 engines in 1986:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF1UoqOfxpQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF1UoqOfxpQ
Raize said:
Lowtimer said:
The scrapyard is fine if you don't mind using old parts, which are OK for a lot of purposes. Tailgate glasses are a classic of something that I would not want to have to buy a new one of, as they are fantastically expensive: in fact I am well stocked up on spare glass generall, all from dead cars. I've got a few second hand parts on mine, including the bonnet and the tailgate.
But things like 20 year old external and internal trim just look terrible when you are restoring a car and many individual small components - I think the total ran well over 100 items - were easily available as factory new stuff, inexpensively priced and of the quality I wanted when I did mine. I also had factory wings, sills and rear quarters.
Mechanical stuff: I am happy to restore things like used starters and wiper motors myself as I can rewind a motor and replace the bearings and bushes quite happily, but for lots of mechanical components I have absolutely no interest in using things two or three decades old of unknown provenance, if I can buy factory new stuff and usually end up with a lot less labour time/cost in the equation.
To me, trim doesn't really matter as these are £xxx cars and noone expects them to be nice.But things like 20 year old external and internal trim just look terrible when you are restoring a car and many individual small components - I think the total ran well over 100 items - were easily available as factory new stuff, inexpensively priced and of the quality I wanted when I did mine. I also had factory wings, sills and rear quarters.
Mechanical stuff: I am happy to restore things like used starters and wiper motors myself as I can rewind a motor and replace the bearings and bushes quite happily, but for lots of mechanical components I have absolutely no interest in using things two or three decades old of unknown provenance, if I can buy factory new stuff and usually end up with a lot less labour time/cost in the equation.
On the subject of glass, I agree totally, and actually have a spare hatch (which I got for £20 from a scrappy, along with numerous "undeclared" items in the tool bag), lying around.
I don't understand why anyone who is paid decently would own such a cheap and disreputable car. My time is basically worthless so it's no problem for me to fix the same thing repeatedly.
"Disreputable" ?
Well done to the OP for buying something so interesting as a first car. Those of us who live in the UK are astonished that you can (presumably) get affordable insurance on it at a tender age..
My first Porsche was a 944 S2; they are great cars and as a starter car for introducing yourself to fast road motoring I cannot think of a better platform to begin on. As long as it is mechanically sound, especially suspension and the tracking for all 4 wheels then you will find it is beautifully balanced and (on decent tyres) will look after you when you make the occasional mistake. Which we all do when we are learning.
I went from my 944 S2 to a 964 Carrera 2 and it took me 6 months of being in denial before I admitted to myself that as a daily driver in all weathers and seasons the 944 was a better proposition. Can't give it higher praise than that..... Enjoy.
My first Porsche was a 944 S2; they are great cars and as a starter car for introducing yourself to fast road motoring I cannot think of a better platform to begin on. As long as it is mechanically sound, especially suspension and the tracking for all 4 wheels then you will find it is beautifully balanced and (on decent tyres) will look after you when you make the occasional mistake. Which we all do when we are learning.
I went from my 944 S2 to a 964 Carrera 2 and it took me 6 months of being in denial before I admitted to myself that as a daily driver in all weathers and seasons the 944 was a better proposition. Can't give it higher praise than that..... Enjoy.
Great Car, but even better that you are in the Toronto area!
I moved her a year ago and have been bitterly disappointed by the car scene.
Almost everyone drives automatics, which on the second hand market gives limited choice especially at the cheaper end of the market. To give an indication there are double the amount of automatic Toyota Yaris (Echo over here) on the market compared to manual. There are no small Renaults or Peugeots – so no real choice of great handling front drivers, except the Mini Cooper (s) and a few Mazdas
RWDs are catered for but again getting a good manual is hard mainly autos and there is limited choice in pure number terms.
There are however thousands of great Pick Up trucks and some new car manufacturers have far better ranges than the UK – especially Hyundai with its 5 litre Genesis model.
Mercedes, BMW have as many four wheel drives in the ranges as Audi - with great engine options.
The purchase options for new are far better than the UK.
...But what I really miss is the Sunday Service type meets, the only car meets in my area are the Americana brigade which is great but lacks a little variety. I think this is probably the direction I will deviate towards as being close to the American border, but there seems to be a real lack of enthusiasm outside of this small circle. Although, there is a large cult following for the Honda Civic in Canada!
The other issues Insurance – is in general more expensive than the UK, but it is not as biased towards engine size - as everyone drives a V8 pick up! So for youngsters it is viable to find something a bit more interesting than a 997cc 106 and afford the insurance. If you are middle aged (still just) then the insurance seems expensive to the UK.
There doesn’t seem to be a car breakers scene either – not that I’ve seen – just as you head north people selling cars from their front gardens – normally F150 trucks with flat tyres(tires).
On the plus side – the act of keeping up with the Jones regarding the age of your car doesn’t seem to exist; the biggest negative though is the general driving standard which is diabolical.
If most Canadian drivers visited the UK they would be involved in a road rage incident at the first junction. They dither about so much, but when you see the behaviour of pedestrians here you know why – they rule the road/car park stepping out in front of everything.
However, (due to the biggest positive in Canada by far) the people here are so polite and nice that I have not witnessed a single episode of road rage – they all apologise to each other.
OP I hope you get many years of happy motoring from your car on roads that are much less congested than the UK!
I moved her a year ago and have been bitterly disappointed by the car scene.
Almost everyone drives automatics, which on the second hand market gives limited choice especially at the cheaper end of the market. To give an indication there are double the amount of automatic Toyota Yaris (Echo over here) on the market compared to manual. There are no small Renaults or Peugeots – so no real choice of great handling front drivers, except the Mini Cooper (s) and a few Mazdas
RWDs are catered for but again getting a good manual is hard mainly autos and there is limited choice in pure number terms.
There are however thousands of great Pick Up trucks and some new car manufacturers have far better ranges than the UK – especially Hyundai with its 5 litre Genesis model.
Mercedes, BMW have as many four wheel drives in the ranges as Audi - with great engine options.
The purchase options for new are far better than the UK.
...But what I really miss is the Sunday Service type meets, the only car meets in my area are the Americana brigade which is great but lacks a little variety. I think this is probably the direction I will deviate towards as being close to the American border, but there seems to be a real lack of enthusiasm outside of this small circle. Although, there is a large cult following for the Honda Civic in Canada!
The other issues Insurance – is in general more expensive than the UK, but it is not as biased towards engine size - as everyone drives a V8 pick up! So for youngsters it is viable to find something a bit more interesting than a 997cc 106 and afford the insurance. If you are middle aged (still just) then the insurance seems expensive to the UK.
There doesn’t seem to be a car breakers scene either – not that I’ve seen – just as you head north people selling cars from their front gardens – normally F150 trucks with flat tyres(tires).
On the plus side – the act of keeping up with the Jones regarding the age of your car doesn’t seem to exist; the biggest negative though is the general driving standard which is diabolical.
If most Canadian drivers visited the UK they would be involved in a road rage incident at the first junction. They dither about so much, but when you see the behaviour of pedestrians here you know why – they rule the road/car park stepping out in front of everything.
However, (due to the biggest positive in Canada by far) the people here are so polite and nice that I have not witnessed a single episode of road rage – they all apologise to each other.
OP I hope you get many years of happy motoring from your car on roads that are much less congested than the UK!
There's not much point being a car enthusiast in Ontario IMO. Earlier this year I found myself on a nice stretch of road in a rural part of the province, nowhere near as good as the best Europe has to offer, but well surfaced, wide, perfect visibility to the horizon, no other vehicles. Or so I thought until I was clocked at 145 kph by a well-hidden patrolman - there is a blanket 90 kph limit on country roads. Fair cop, although at that speed on that road in those conditions it was nothing more than a gentle six-tenths canter - I experienced far more risk and danger every day dicing with the appallingly poor driving on the highways that criss-cross the GTA.
Exceeding the limit by more than 50 kph carries a mandatory "street racing" charge in Ontario. My car and licence were seized on the spot, and while I am still going through the court system and sentencing is yet to be finalised, the posted fine is between 2,000 to 10,000 Canadian dollars.
If I lived in Toronto I would drive a Prius.
Exceeding the limit by more than 50 kph carries a mandatory "street racing" charge in Ontario. My car and licence were seized on the spot, and while I am still going through the court system and sentencing is yet to be finalised, the posted fine is between 2,000 to 10,000 Canadian dollars.
If I lived in Toronto I would drive a Prius.
Edited by plenty on Wednesday 17th December 21:00
GC8 said:
Jon Mitchell says that its good for 420bhp, but Id be happy with 320bhp unless Id spend an awful lot of money on the engine in question.
Thanks for the info - yes any more than about 320 would be more than just a few bolt-ons I suppose - especially fuelling upgrades.blade7 said:
I'd check whether there were forged or cast rods in the motor before aiming for 350 bhp +.
That sounds about right - still very good, though.[quote=mr2j
Thanks for the info - yes any more than about 320 would be more than just a few bolt-ons I suppose - especially fuelling upgrades.
[/quote]
Fuelling is easy. Up to about the 320bhp point on a factory 250 bhp car with the K26/8 blower it's mainly a case of getting more out of what you already have, upgrading various peripheral items to amend fuelling and the mapping and the wastegate and boost control. Beyond that point you are moving beyond the factory intercooler, air flow meter, turbocharger, the whole of the exhaust, the fuel pump, the standard clutch... all sorts of stuff needs replacement, which makes it all a much more expensive proposition.
Thanks for the info - yes any more than about 320 would be more than just a few bolt-ons I suppose - especially fuelling upgrades.
[/quote]
Fuelling is easy. Up to about the 320bhp point on a factory 250 bhp car with the K26/8 blower it's mainly a case of getting more out of what you already have, upgrading various peripheral items to amend fuelling and the mapping and the wastegate and boost control. Beyond that point you are moving beyond the factory intercooler, air flow meter, turbocharger, the whole of the exhaust, the fuel pump, the standard clutch... all sorts of stuff needs replacement, which makes it all a much more expensive proposition.
Edited by Lowtimer on Thursday 25th December 08:21
blade7 said:
That's the one, more efficient ducting on the intercooler but it still had the original end tank that tuners say is restrictive. Looked like a temp sensor behind the throttle body which may mean it's running a MAF/MAP setup.
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