RE: New Focus RS confirmed
Discussion
I think the Cossie has had its day as a marketing tool or halo model. It doesnt have the reign it was had on the road. The products weve seen since the days of the escorts and sierras/sapphires models have mostly been met with disappointment over the omission of rally inspired all wheel drive. Weight can be cut but not by any great amount. The latest RS3 has lost 55kg for example. to get back to the days where cossie stood for a car you just didnt mess with would probably need 500-600bhp today but all youre doing is stirring things up in the power stakes again. Audi or VW will come along with 603bhp......its all getting rather boring. I like too when you see people who might lose out on a 0-60 run against the advantage of 4wd call the people that buy those cars 0-60 pub bores. You could argue then that perhaps the opposite to those you have the in gear time bores or the top speed bores or the power to weight ratio bores. All the results of selective thinking.....
Edited by ToothbrushMan on Sunday 14th December 08:46
blade7 said:
Truth be told a new Fiesta ST with the approved Mountune uprate would be all over a standard Sierra Cosworth
No s
t Sherlock......With almost 30 years between them, it would be more of a shock if it wasn't.
blade7 said:
but back in the day hardly anyone ran a Cosworth on standard boost.
Actually, as someone who was there 'back in the day' modded Cossie's were the exception rather than the rule. It was only once the cars got into the 5+ year old, 2nd/3rd owner territory in the early 90's that it was more unusual to find a standard Cossie. Back in the late '80's, I knew 3 people with Cossie's (original 3 dr, a RS500 & a Sapphire) and all were standard.Does Ford use this chassis in any of its current worldwide range currently using AWD? I know the article says they are throwing AWD at everything but unless its designed or currently being used with AWD its not a cheap conversion. If nothing in the Ford empire is using it then id say 100% FWD.
Which despite the RS heritage does give them a headache where to pitch this car, unless they do limited production runs for each market it may be a hard sell this time around. Last time the competition did exist but was the likes of the Gti, Meganne and the Astra VXR.
This time very talented cars indeed exist, Golf R, Gti, A45 AMG (subject to pricing), 135i, Meganne still, RS3 (subject to pricing) and whatever the new Type R comes in at is a complete unknown but that looks very likely to out RS anything the RS can do (other than maybes headline power)
Its going to be hard for the RS to carve out a niche in this sector.
Which despite the RS heritage does give them a headache where to pitch this car, unless they do limited production runs for each market it may be a hard sell this time around. Last time the competition did exist but was the likes of the Gti, Meganne and the Astra VXR.
This time very talented cars indeed exist, Golf R, Gti, A45 AMG (subject to pricing), 135i, Meganne still, RS3 (subject to pricing) and whatever the new Type R comes in at is a complete unknown but that looks very likely to out RS anything the RS can do (other than maybes headline power)
Its going to be hard for the RS to carve out a niche in this sector.
After_Shock said:
This time very talented cars indeed exist, Golf R, Gti, A45 AMG (subject to pricing), 135i, Meganne still, RS3 (subject to pricing) and whatever the new Type R comes in at is a complete unknown but that looks very likely to out RS anything the RS can do (other than maybes headline power)
Its going to be hard for the RS to carve out a niche in this sector.
Twas ever thus.Its going to be hard for the RS to carve out a niche in this sector.
The MK2 RS had Evos, Imprezas, the Scirocco & Golf R and the Megane R26R to compete against.
Staying FWD actually gives it more of a USP not less.
After_Shock said:
Its going to be hard for the RS to carve out a niche in this sector.
They already have their niche, RS fans will buy the car come what may. Just like last time around people swapped from an ST to an RS and then some to the RS500. Any car with an RS badge becomes a classic, even the mk6 escort RS2000 which is probably the "worst" of the bunch.
Edited by Crafty_ on Sunday 14th December 17:46
.people seem to be forgetting that ford fans buy them not only for the badge but for the fact that they tend to be very capable cars. look at the price of the MK2 when released 25K ish. That was Golf GTI territory and the GTI wouldn't have seen which way the RS went! however people compare it against the R / R32 which was another 5k!
The Mk1, on paper not a very quick car but I have one and I can tell you first hand that in a point to point journey that involves corners its extremely effective and would keep up with if not walk all over a lot of the modern hot hatches, and I will happily demonstrate this to anyone who would like to see it first hand, i've never driven anything that grips so well!
The MK3 what ever guise it turns up in will again be a competitive car, it will drive well and it will be good value. Yeah 0-60 it won't be in the same league as AMG45 RS3 etc but they are considerably more expensive!
smiles for ££ the RS will be a winner i am certain.
The Mk1, on paper not a very quick car but I have one and I can tell you first hand that in a point to point journey that involves corners its extremely effective and would keep up with if not walk all over a lot of the modern hot hatches, and I will happily demonstrate this to anyone who would like to see it first hand, i've never driven anything that grips so well!
The MK3 what ever guise it turns up in will again be a competitive car, it will drive well and it will be good value. Yeah 0-60 it won't be in the same league as AMG45 RS3 etc but they are considerably more expensive!
smiles for ££ the RS will be a winner i am certain.
The Vambo said:
Twas ever thus.
The MK2 RS had Evos, Imprezas, the Scirocco & Golf R and the Megane R26R to compete against.
Staying FWD actually gives it more of a USP not less.
Evos and Imprezas aren't really around anymore plus they were very focused cars and also extremely compromised, fuel/emissions/interior quality etc. The previous Focus interior was ok quality, better than the Jap cars but not on the same level as the Golf, the new competition of the Merc, Audi, BMW and next gen Golf give buyers more for the money as an all round package.The MK2 RS had Evos, Imprezas, the Scirocco & Golf R and the Megane R26R to compete against.
Staying FWD actually gives it more of a USP not less.
The competition these days has moved on in many many ways. Yes staying FWD may give it a USP and only technically put it against the Meganne and the Civic Type R however staying FWD gives it no hope in hell of being able to replicate performance figures of the new Golf R, A45 AMG and probably even an Audi S3 let alone the forthcoming RS3.
Ok its a focus RS, yes they have a following but is that following as much as it used to be back when the Mk1 came out, all im saying unless its a limited run I cant see Ford selling potentially as many as they want or need to unless they pull something extremely special out of the hat for a sensible price.
After_Shock said:
I cant see Ford selling potentially as many as they want or need to unless they pull something extremely special out of the hat for a sensible price.
Unlike the Mk2 the RS is now a global car built on a standard production line.If anything, it will be much easier to sell this one.
Focus ST shell with tarted up bumpers and a halfords spoiler. To be launched as part of the Focus facelift marketing.
330hp, with an RS500 run out model with 350hp. From the Mazda/Ecoboost 2.3l
FWD with e-diff, as this is what the chassis gaffer was talking about a year ago. No AWD as doesn't make any sort of business sense to recommission tooling/design for such low numbers. Bear in mind it's going to be sold as a world car so in most markets wont have the RS pedigree/history people are so precious about in the UK.
Will sell like hot cakes, but not in the same market as the Golf R/A45/M135i/RS3
330hp, with an RS500 run out model with 350hp. From the Mazda/Ecoboost 2.3l
FWD with e-diff, as this is what the chassis gaffer was talking about a year ago. No AWD as doesn't make any sort of business sense to recommission tooling/design for such low numbers. Bear in mind it's going to be sold as a world car so in most markets wont have the RS pedigree/history people are so precious about in the UK.
Will sell like hot cakes, but not in the same market as the Golf R/A45/M135i/RS3
I'm sure it will sell well, and be more than capable. However, as a WRC fan, it's not a true RS. It's a ST. Unless the RS no longer stands for Rallye Sport. For me, any RS should be a road version of one of Ford's competition cars; with the same engine, transmission, etc and no A/c or electric windows, etc That is what the ST is for.
Not seen much comment on it being a 5 door only? First 5 door RS? I know to some its insignificant, but to me it is a sizeable negative compared with competition. It's about time Ford did a faux 'coupe' on this/a platform. Obviously new Mustang does change things a bit but others have been in that market for 5+ years.
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