RE: New Focus RS confirmed
Discussion
aeropilot said:
Actually, as someone who was there 'back in the day' modded Cossie's were the exception rather than the rule. It was only once the cars got into the 5+ year old, 2nd/3rd owner territory in the early 90's that it was more unusual to find a standard Cossie. Back in the late '80's, I knew 3 people with Cossie's (original 3 dr, a RS500 & a Sapphire) and all were standard.
I'd agree with that.For the first five years after the 3door came out in 86, there were very few modded ones. Early 90's the floodgates opened as they became affordable and the floodgates opened, when people like Paul Bailey, HT and race series line the Vecta challenge came about.
Before then, the only modded one I ever rode in was a Rouse Sport one.
Edited by Hol on Sunday 14th December 21:46
Gompo said:
Not seen much comment on it being a 5 door only? First 5 door RS? I know to some its insignificant, but to me it is a sizeable negative compared with competition. It's about time Ford did a faux 'coupe' on this/a platform. Obviously new Mustang does change things a bit but others have been in that market for 5+ years.
Er, I'd imagine that there's been no comments made about it being the "First" 5 door RS, purely because it wouldn't be the first RS to have more than 3 doors 
Edited by AlexRS2782 on Sunday 14th December 21:58
blade7 said:
Truth be told a new Fiesta ST with the approved Mountune uprate would be all over a standard Sierra Cosworth , but back in the day hardly anyone ran a Cosworth on standard boost.
You're probably right - the Fiesta will have a wodge more power at the wheels and weighs less and 25 years of chassis development - even a modern rwd chassis with the same power and weight ( GT86 ) gets left behind.DRIVE picked up on how good the Fiesta ST was on driving roads with the review against the E46 M3 below
http://youtu.be/Gbcj-zE7gBw
They seemed to say it would give the BMW a hard time point to point
Still if you were a Ford fan, an ST for the daily grind and an old RS for fun at weekends would be a great garage.
Pros with the Fiesta is stuff like warranty, mod cons, fuel consumption etc
http://youtu.be/au8YS7FjcRs
Hol said:
aeropilot said:
Actually, as someone who was there 'back in the day' modded Cossie's were the exception rather than the rule. It was only once the cars got into the 5+ year old, 2nd/3rd owner territory in the early 90's that it was more unusual to find a standard Cossie. Back in the late '80's, I knew 3 people with Cossie's (original 3 dr, a RS500 & a Sapphire) and all were standard.
I'd agree with that.For the first five years after the 3door came out in 86, there were very few modded ones. Early 90's the floodgates opened as they became affordable and the floodgates opened, when people like Paul Bailey, HT and race series line the Vecta challenge came about.
Before then, the only modded one I ever rode in was a Rouse Sport one.
Yeah I used to tell everyone my Cosworth was completely standard too 
. I had an 87 3 door from 1990 to 2003, how about you two ?s m said:
blade7 said:
Truth be told a new Fiesta ST with the approved Mountune uprate would be all over a standard Sierra Cosworth , but back in the day hardly anyone ran a Cosworth on standard boost.
You're probably right - the Fiesta will have a wodge more power at the wheels and weighs less and 25 years of chassis development - even a modern rwd chassis with the same power and weight ( GT86 ) gets left behind.DRIVE picked up on how good the Fiesta ST was on driving roads with the review against the E46 M3 below
http://youtu.be/Gbcj-zE7gBw
They seemed to say it would give the BMW a hard time point to point
Still if you were a Ford fan, an ST for the daily grind and an old RS for fun at weekends would be a great garage.
Pros with the Fiesta is stuff like warranty, mod cons, fuel consumption etc
http://youtu.be/au8YS7FjcRs
The Vambo said:
If anything, it will be much easier to sell this one.
Will it? Depends on specs/prices. If they throw the price into the Golf R, A45 AMG and RS3 territory with FWD and im sorry to say no where near the build quality inside of the other cars its going to be a hard sell, on the world stage.If its priced sensibly then yes they have a good chance, but its likely which has been pointed out going to be a warmed up ST not a true RS (unless they pull something special out the bag) and if it is a true RS when it comes it will be priced accordingly. Die hard RS fans in the UK will no doubt buy many but worldwide it may struggle to find a place in the market.
blade7 said:
s m said:
blade7 said:
Truth be told a new Fiesta ST with the approved Mountune uprate would be all over a standard Sierra Cosworth , but back in the day hardly anyone ran a Cosworth on standard boost.
You're probably right - the Fiesta will have a wodge more power at the wheels and weighs less and 25 years of chassis development - even a modern rwd chassis with the same power and weight ( GT86 ) gets left behind.DRIVE picked up on how good the Fiesta ST was on driving roads with the review against the E46 M3 below
http://youtu.be/Gbcj-zE7gBw
They seemed to say it would give the BMW a hard time point to point
Still if you were a Ford fan, an ST for the daily grind and an old RS for fun at weekends would be a great garage.
Pros with the Fiesta is stuff like warranty, mod cons, fuel consumption etc
http://youtu.be/au8YS7FjcRs
AlexRS2782 said:
Er, I'd imagine that there's been no comments made about it being the "First" 5 door RS, purely because it wouldn't be the first RS to have more than 3 doors
Edited by AlexRS2782 on Sunday 14th December 21:58
So is it the first 5 door RS or not?
Not sure why you replied, there's a big difference visually between a 4 door saloon and a 5 door hatchback, in my opinion.
JulianHJ said:
If they do stick to FWD, up the STs power a bit, maybe fiddle with the diff and suspension - will the cost of manufacturing be significantly higher than an ST?
Given the potential economies of scale if this is a worldwide car, is sub-£30k possible?
Almost certain I'd say. Previous RS started under £30k. Given the potential economies of scale if this is a worldwide car, is sub-£30k possible?
Pixelpeep7r said:
unless it's truly special they can't pitch it at more money than the Golf-R so it'll have to be sub 30k if its FWD and <300hp or they won't shift hardly any of them. Imo.
It will probably be sold out before it hits the forecourt. The RS lovers will buy it pretty much regardless.TheDoggingFather said:
It will probably be sold out before it hits the forecourt. The RS lovers will buy it pretty much regardless.
True but as they are billing this is a worldwide model it may not be a limited production run and just a other spec level in the range. All speculation will have to wait and see.After_Shock said:
TheDoggingFather said:
It will probably be sold out before it hits the forecourt. The RS lovers will buy it pretty much regardless.
True but as they are billing this is a worldwide model it may not be a limited production run and just a other spec level in the range. All speculation will have to wait and see.Would love to see a 4wd focus RS although i doubt it will be.
I always wondered if anyone timed a stage 3 escort Cosworth with similar power to a 300bhp Focus RS what the outcome would be around a track and also on the straights, 335bhp Escort is good for 0-60mph 4.3secs and 0-100mph 12.8secs which is a fair bit faster than the Focus RS.
I always wondered if anyone timed a stage 3 escort Cosworth with similar power to a 300bhp Focus RS what the outcome would be around a track and also on the straights, 335bhp Escort is good for 0-60mph 4.3secs and 0-100mph 12.8secs which is a fair bit faster than the Focus RS.
GTiRichTea said:
Would love to see a 4wd focus RS although i doubt it will be.
I always wondered if anyone timed a stage 3 escort Cosworth with similar power to a 300bhp Focus RS what the outcome would be around a track and also on the straights, 335bhp Escort is good for 0-60mph 4.3secs and 0-100mph 12.8secs which is a fair bit faster than the Focus RS.
I've seen similar power Escorts timed but not a head to head from a proper mag/tv program comparison with a mk2 FocusI always wondered if anyone timed a stage 3 escort Cosworth with similar power to a 300bhp Focus RS what the outcome would be around a track and also on the straights, 335bhp Escort is good for 0-60mph 4.3secs and 0-100mph 12.8secs which is a fair bit faster than the Focus RS.
5th Gear did an ST Escort vs mk1 Focus RS test at Anglesey track though
http://youtu.be/aGEymxBPgB4
TheDoggingFather said:
Pixelpeep7r said:
unless it's truly special they can't pitch it at more money than the Golf-R so it'll have to be sub 30k if its FWD and <300hp or they won't shift hardly any of them. Imo.
It will probably be sold out before it hits the forecourt. The RS lovers will buy it pretty much regardless.Do you think just because it will have circa 300 BHP and FWD it won't be able to compete? If big power FWD is done right, like the last 2 FRS then why won't it be a good car.
Are you one of these people that swears by RWD but has never had the traction control remotely near off in your diesel BMW. RWD is fine for a laugh but 70% of people can't exploit the power and handling due to lack of ability so why not build a FWD hot hatch that 95% of people can drive quickly.
MK1RS Bruce said:
You are basing this on the fact the last two sold very well, and they sold well because they were very good to drive and very fast against similarly priced machinery. You seem to be fixated on the brand and people only buy it for the name, what justification have you got for this?
Do you think just because it will have circa 300 BHP and FWD it won't be able to compete? If big power FWD is done right, like the last 2 FRS then why won't it be a good car.
Are you one of these people that swears by RWD but has never had the traction control remotely near off in your diesel BMW. RWD is fine for a laugh but 70% of people can't exploit the power and handling due to lack of ability so why not build a FWD hot hatch that 95% of people can drive quickly.
Whoah, I was under the impression that both had considerable deposits put down on them before they even got in to the show room? Not once did I say it wouldn't sell because it's not a good car. I was merely stating that Ford has a massive following with very dedicated owners who are very happy to put money down on the basis that they want to get behind the wheel of the next generation of Fast Ford.Do you think just because it will have circa 300 BHP and FWD it won't be able to compete? If big power FWD is done right, like the last 2 FRS then why won't it be a good car.
Are you one of these people that swears by RWD but has never had the traction control remotely near off in your diesel BMW. RWD is fine for a laugh but 70% of people can't exploit the power and handling due to lack of ability so why not build a FWD hot hatch that 95% of people can drive quickly.
As far as competing goes, I think it depends exactly where Ford place it in the market. If it's top end Golf GTi money and with a significant power hike, then it'll sell like hotcakes, especially if they include some gaudy colour as per the MK2 RS, so it really stands out from the crowd.
As for FWD, never owned a RWD car. Yes I've driven fast BMW diesels, BMW petrols and I've even tracked the hallowed MX5. However I started in Mini's, I currently drive a Civic which has a torsen differential and at the same track day I drove a Clio 172 round the track which I found I was instantly a lot more confident behind the wheel. Did I feel less confident due to lack of experience in the MX5, yes of course, was it more fun than the Clio, not sure, exciting definitely.To my mind there will always be a place for a fast front driver, but there are some definite advantages with a decent rear drive chassis, the steering feel in particular. Four wheel drive? Other than a couple of off roaders, I've only driven an A3 2.0t quattro and that just felt odd, but that was a relatively old Haldex system so not a great comparison. Hot hatches started front wheel drive so probably should remain so, I do love the feeling of an lsd pulling the nose tight into a corner, but until I've driven a Golf R (mk7), new S3 or Merc A45, I shall reserve judgement on the all wheel drive potential.
So to summarise, I think the Focus RS will sell regardless because of its faithful following and because Ford can make a decent stab at a hot hatch.
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