Best smoker barges 1-5 large [vol8]
Discussion
Funny you should mention that, as when Ford took over Jaguar in the 80's, they drafted in an American to head the operation. He was appalled at what he saw in the factories he toured; loads of of handcrafting and outdated working practices and ancient machinery. I thought it was all supposed to be overhauled!
Stegel said:
SpeckledJim said:
Cruelly underrated.
A dinosaur from another age, yet better at a few very important things (ride, styling, joie de vivre) than Mercedes and BMWs developed with €2bn budgets.
Yay the plucky Brit. Yay him.
I had a Browns Lane factory tour about a year before it closed, when I daresay the last XK8s were being made. I would like to go on a Stuttgart MB factory tour just to compare (albeit years later) but it felt to me as close to cars being produced in "dark satanic mills" as you can get - lots of moving things around by hand, and while there was some automation, a lot of it resembled a back-street garage with the skills of the guys with spanners and hammers being critical to the finished product - to be honest, I find it amazing cars departed even bearing a feint mechanical and performance resemblance to each other, let alone being worthy rivals to ze Germans. A dinosaur from another age, yet better at a few very important things (ride, styling, joie de vivre) than Mercedes and BMWs developed with €2bn budgets.
Yay the plucky Brit. Yay him.
And yet an XJ8 banger is at least as easy to own now as a W220 or E38.
Top Bodging, and I love them for it. There's a warming whiff of folly and grand adventure about the whole company.
Cock-up after set-back after SNAFU, and yet they soldier on, beloved and betrayed, with a song in their hearts.
A truly great awful company.
Baryonyx said:
Funny you should mention that, as when Ford took over Jaguar in the 80's, they drafted in an American to head the operation. He was appalled at what he saw in the factories he toured; loads of of handcrafting and outdated working practices and ancient machinery. I thought it was all supposed to be overhauled!
Perhaps that was the improved plant I saw, and they had only stopped forging parts on an anvil next to the line a few years before! They had spent a great deal of money on the trim (leather and wood) plants primarily due to H&S concerns - it still reeked of Evo-Stik but apparently the fumes and dust was a nightmare before the investment. Seeing some of the skills in areas such as paint and body rectification was interesting - I hope those guys made it to Castle Bromwich. Stegel said:
Baryonyx said:
Funny you should mention that, as when Ford took over Jaguar in the 80's, they drafted in an American to head the operation. He was appalled at what he saw in the factories he toured; loads of of handcrafting and outdated working practices and ancient machinery. I thought it was all supposed to be overhauled!
Perhaps that was the improved plant I saw, and they had only stopped forging parts on an anvil next to the line a few years before! They had spent a great deal of money on the trim (leather and wood) plants primarily due to H&S concerns - it still reeked of Evo-Stik but apparently the fumes and dust was a nightmare before the investment. Seeing some of the skills in areas such as paint and body rectification was interesting - I hope those guys made it to Castle Bromwich. Agent Orange said:
Keep looking - your car is out there somewhere!
(Facelift + panoramic roof + 8 holes = looks good; gives me thoughts about options for my car, which (Feb 97) probably just missed out on 8 holes).
Stegel said:
I had a Browns Lane factory tour about a year before it closed, when I daresay the last XK8s were being made. I would like to go on a Stuttgart MB factory tour just to compare (albeit years later) but it felt to me as close to cars being produced in "dark satanic mills" as you can get - lots of moving things around by hand, and while there was some automation, a lot of it resembled a back-street garage with the skills of the guys with spanners and hammers being critical to the finished product - to be honest, I find it amazing cars departed even bearing a feint mechanical and performance resemblance to each other, let alone being worthy rivals to ze Germans.
So did I. Blagged that I needed to go for my a level d&t project! The alloy XJ was just about to be launched and there were a few early test cars floating about. TBH I was seriously impressed. The bits of wood trim were being hand prepped and the leather seats trimmed by old girls with sewing machines. How they made any money I will never know. Actually... They didnt did they!?
Don't forget those jags were top of owners surveys at the time and the paint finish was certainly better than anything leaving Germany at the time!! They problems of this era jags were caused by design rather than build (timing chains, sealed for life boxes etc).
Those were the days.
BeirutTaxi said:
Baryonyx said:
Funny you should mention that, as when Ford took over Jaguar in the 80's, they drafted in an American to head the operation. He was appalled at what he saw in the factories he toured; loads of of handcrafting and outdated working practices and ancient machinery. I thought it was all supposed to be overhauled!
I can't recommend this book enough, which is an account of working on a car production line. Really funny read 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rivethead-Ben-Hamper/dp/04...
SpeckledJim said:
Stegel said:
SpeckledJim said:
Cruelly underrated.
A dinosaur from another age, yet better at a few very important things (ride, styling, joie de vivre) than Mercedes and BMWs developed with €2bn budgets.
Yay the plucky Brit. Yay him.
I had a Browns Lane factory tour about a year before it closed, when I daresay the last XK8s were being made. I would like to go on a Stuttgart MB factory tour just to compare (albeit years later) but it felt to me as close to cars being produced in "dark satanic mills" as you can get - lots of moving things around by hand, and while there was some automation, a lot of it resembled a back-street garage with the skills of the guys with spanners and hammers being critical to the finished product - to be honest, I find it amazing cars departed even bearing a feint mechanical and performance resemblance to each other, let alone being worthy rivals to ze Germans. A dinosaur from another age, yet better at a few very important things (ride, styling, joie de vivre) than Mercedes and BMWs developed with €2bn budgets.
Yay the plucky Brit. Yay him.
And yet an XJ8 banger is at least as easy to own now as a W220 or E38.
Top Bodging, and I love them for it. There's a warming whiff of folly and grand adventure about the whole company.
Cock-up after set-back after SNAFU, and yet they soldier on, beloved and betrayed, with a song in their hearts.
A truly great awful company.
SuperHangOn said:
So did I. Blagged that I needed to go for my a level d&t project! The alloy XJ was just about to be launched and there were a few early test cars floating about.
TBH I was seriously impressed. The bits of wood trim were being hand prepped and the leather seats trimmed by old girls with sewing machines. How they made any money I will never know. Actually... They didnt did they!?
Don't forget those jags were top of owners surveys at the time and the paint finish was certainly better than anything leaving Germany at the time!! They problems of this era jags were caused by design rather than build (timing chains, sealed for life boxes etc).
Those were the days.
I too was impressed- in the leather shop a woman who looked like she may have worked on the first XJ would grab a bare gear knob and a sewn leather cover and while chatting to her neighbour and almost not looking at her hands produce the finished article with dead straight seams. Similarly, seeing leaves of veneer being book matched was great (I was fortunate to also get a tour of Crewe when the last Crewe RR was halfway down the line - the skill shown in the trim shop really highlighted how important this aspect is to the cars' perceived quality [there was a car destined for David Beckham in the bespoke customer area, complete save for the rear seat which was to have their as yet unborn second child's name embroidered on the backrest, with the first child's name on the other side]). TBH I was seriously impressed. The bits of wood trim were being hand prepped and the leather seats trimmed by old girls with sewing machines. How they made any money I will never know. Actually... They didnt did they!?
Don't forget those jags were top of owners surveys at the time and the paint finish was certainly better than anything leaving Germany at the time!! They problems of this era jags were caused by design rather than build (timing chains, sealed for life boxes etc).
Those were the days.
The ancient production line (I read somewhere elements of it were originally purchased second hand from Standard-Triumph) was replaced by Ford and first used to build the last handful of XJ40s in preparation for the X300. These XJ40s can be identified by their door hinges - presumably from then-on the doors were put on the car by a machine, rather than by hand - and by generally better panel gaps. They do seem to have lasted better too. They were once rare, but now make up a surprising percentage of surviving cars.
One incredible production detail concerned V12 XJ40 (the XJ81). When one was identified by the foreman as it passed by, he would blow a whistle, the whole line would stop and a team would wheel out a V12 engine and drop it in from the top using a mobile engine crane. Once it was all fitted, the line would re-start!
These tremendously outdated manufacturing techniques used on the XJ40 are double edged though. The cars had a big hand built element which means they come apart and reassemble very easily now. It also greatly adds to their charm and what you loose in absolute panel fit, you more than gain in a greater feeling of 'specialness'. The XJ40 is a much more charming car than the X300 or X308 - though considerably less efficient too. This charm and feel of the car is something you either 'get', or you don't. To be honest, most posters in this thread don't value it, so won't have the foggiest what I'm blathering about!!
For them, the cold efficiency, fine panel gaps and perfectly identical veneered substrates of the W124 will win the day!!
One incredible production detail concerned V12 XJ40 (the XJ81). When one was identified by the foreman as it passed by, he would blow a whistle, the whole line would stop and a team would wheel out a V12 engine and drop it in from the top using a mobile engine crane. Once it was all fitted, the line would re-start!
These tremendously outdated manufacturing techniques used on the XJ40 are double edged though. The cars had a big hand built element which means they come apart and reassemble very easily now. It also greatly adds to their charm and what you loose in absolute panel fit, you more than gain in a greater feeling of 'specialness'. The XJ40 is a much more charming car than the X300 or X308 - though considerably less efficient too. This charm and feel of the car is something you either 'get', or you don't. To be honest, most posters in this thread don't value it, so won't have the foggiest what I'm blathering about!!
For them, the cold efficiency, fine panel gaps and perfectly identical veneered substrates of the W124 will win the day!!
Edited by dbdb on Tuesday 3rd March 14:52
dme123 said:
Sums up my feelings about them perfectly. Ironically my 1996 X300 built in the old school way was robust, reliable and easy to work on while my 2004 S-Type was piss poor and full of nasty components and cheap fixings that made every job an ordeal. I'd sooner own a 90s Jaguar as a daily than a 00s one based on my experiences.
In many ways the X300 is a high point; enough of the old ways, but built on a modern(ish!!) line.These will be from the late 1980s
37C85A14-BA38-C5F6-4E9938CAC18EC5F2 by carsie.100, on Flickr
37C85872-BB1A-F7D1-3C8B91389979B8D9 by carsie.100, on Flickr
Rustproofing by carsie.100, on Flickr
37C85A14-BA38-C5F6-4E9938CAC18EC5F2 by carsie.100, on Flickr37C85872-BB1A-F7D1-3C8B91389979B8D9 by carsie.100, on FlickrRustproofing by carsie.100, on FlickrEdited by dbdb on Tuesday 3rd March 14:39
Mustard said:
olly755 said:
Quite fancy another 540iT, and this caught my eye.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-540I-TOURING-/111593...
But..
Champagne 'n grey?? Was this available?
Yep, factory original, that was a main dealer p/x a couple of years ago http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-540I-TOURING-/111593...
But..
Champagne 'n grey?? Was this available?
and a proper car, does seem to be racking up a few owners, as I'm sure it was no where near 7 previous thenhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1999-BMW-528i-SE-SILVER-...
harrykul said:
Unbelievable. Hard to imagine that someone spent their hard earned on that! Must be company cars originally imo
Hard to believe BMW offered it as a non-Individual trim option. 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1995-Mercedes-E-Class-E2...
Pleasant looking.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff