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I'm not sure I've been in an E90 with standard leather, but my dad's old E92 M3 with nappa leather was definitely nicer than my car. I have been in an E60 but cannot recall it to be honest.
Can't be worse than my friends old DB9....The bolster showed signs of serious wear after just a few thousand miles!
Can't be worse than my friends old DB9....The bolster showed signs of serious wear after just a few thousand miles!
olly22n said:
E65Ross said:
A while ago there were a few people saying about how poorly BMW leather wears the miles. It's NOT the the best quality leather of any car I've been in by a long stretch
E65Ross said:
I'm not sure I've been in an E90 with standard leather, but my dad's old E92 M3 with nappa leather was definitely nicer than my car.
So which is it?I think it's how baggy it looks that gets me over the actual quality. E39 leather always looks poor to my eyes as well.
The trouble with judging how well the seats wear is you've no idea on how previous owners treated it - were they a 20st monster who rolled over the bolsters 20 times a day while he pottered about doing short trips, or a svelte business-type who did a 150 mile trip to a meeting and back once a week?
A lot of condition with leather is also down to whether it's been cared for at any point in its life, a good leather care will do wonders for its condition, but there's only so much that it can do once the damage is done!
The trouble with judging how well the seats wear is you've no idea on how previous owners treated it - were they a 20st monster who rolled over the bolsters 20 times a day while he pottered about doing short trips, or a svelte business-type who did a 150 mile trip to a meeting and back once a week?
A lot of condition with leather is also down to whether it's been cared for at any point in its life, a good leather care will do wonders for its condition, but there's only so much that it can do once the damage is done!
Edited by Krikkit on Thursday 26th March 10:03
r129sl said:
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Not so happy real life:
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Please tell me that's not his head on the bonnet.Not so happy real life:
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I saw one of the fillums - chappie playing Mesrine was in the 'Oceans 11' stuff iirc. There's some public 'affection' for outlaws, until the knowledge of the blood 'n guts gets bigger press. Strange things, people.
As for leather - I had a 2002 E46 bought at <40k and the bolster was dreadful, but repaired by the dealer and passable. My boss had a 1997 E39 from new to >120k and his seats were much better at the end. Perhaps there's a Connolly specialist out there who can enlighten us?
E65Ross said:
I'm not sure I've been in an E90 with standard leather, but my dad's old E92 M3 with nappa leather was definitely nicer than my car. I have been in an E60 but cannot recall it to be honest.
Can't be worse than my friends old DB9....The bolster showed signs of serious wear after just a few thousand miles!
I sold my E90 with well over 100,000 miles on it and the passenger seats (which had been used a fair bit) were all like new. The driver's seat was undamaged, but showed a little settling of the underlying foam, maybe 5mm, and there was a degree of 'polishing' evident on the main squab. The car was six years old and I used to clean the seats about every few months and give them some hide food about once a year.Can't be worse than my friends old DB9....The bolster showed signs of serious wear after just a few thousand miles!
Edited by Lowtimer on Thursday 26th March 10:16
The standard leather in the 2006 E66 740Li my brother had is/was identical to the 2007 E91 325i Touring we have.
It is exceedingly durable and long lasting. Indeed, amazingly so. My brother had done about 70,000 miles in his 7 by the time he sold it last year and there was very little wear. The driver's seat looked hardly sat on - the others looked unused - pretty good I'd say for the mileage. The same thing with the 3 Series we have. Also bought new, that has done 50-odd thousand miles now. The (beige) leather isn't far off new-looking. I dread to think the real number of miles those cars with worn looking seats have done.
I can't see how such a long lasting material can be considered to be poor quality. It lacks the visual, tactile and olfactory rewards of the old style Connolly leather in my old XJ40 - but is every bit as long lasting, though it ages differently.
It is exceedingly durable and long lasting. Indeed, amazingly so. My brother had done about 70,000 miles in his 7 by the time he sold it last year and there was very little wear. The driver's seat looked hardly sat on - the others looked unused - pretty good I'd say for the mileage. The same thing with the 3 Series we have. Also bought new, that has done 50-odd thousand miles now. The (beige) leather isn't far off new-looking. I dread to think the real number of miles those cars with worn looking seats have done.
I can't see how such a long lasting material can be considered to be poor quality. It lacks the visual, tactile and olfactory rewards of the old style Connolly leather in my old XJ40 - but is every bit as long lasting, though it ages differently.
dbdb said:
I dread to think the real number of miles those cars with worn looking seats have done.
It does depend how they are treated. People who never clean the seats and particularly those who wear jeans or other clothes with metal studs which tear the surface and which transfer dye to seat materials. People who are very fat and drag themselves in and out over the seat bolsters. Carrying dogs or other animals can do a lot of damage to a car interior too.E65Ross said:
A while ago there were a few people saying about how poorly BMW leather wears the miles. It's the the best quality leather of any car I've been in by a long stretch
Was the 'long stretch' comment a deliberate slip 
I am sure it is great quality leather but it always looks very baggy compared to say any other car with leather seats in the world.a post on Bimmerfest said:
Actually to be precise, Nappa is coated but it is coated in a clear coat protective finish (like a scotch guard) to prevent stains. The color you see in Nappa is dyed leather. With Dakota the color is in the coating, which is why the vinyl coating on Dakota wears off, revealing a different color of raw leather underneath which is what you are seeing. This wouldn't occur on Nappa or Merino, because the leather is dyed, and the protective finish is thin and clear."
hmmm, I do not know the exact formulations but I would bet that....
Nappa, Merino, Novillo, and Dakota are all chrome tanned hides
All are dyed through - i.e. they are drum dyed - the color is not only on the surface
All are finished with a sprayed on micro pigmented finish that covers minor imperfections and evens out the surface - this spray contains varying proportions of pigment and dye . A spray with little pigment and/or mostly aniline dye would be used in the case of fine quality hides that require less correction.
I suspect.....
Nappa and Merino are "full grain" hides that are aniline dyed and sprayed with a micro- pigment . Full grain leather by its nature normally consists of a better selection. Hides are usually graded as 1, 2, 3, and 4 qualities - one is the top selection, but there is never a sufficient quantity of number ones to fulfill a requirement hence the need to even out variations with micro-pigments.
Novillo starts out as a less fine assortment - more imperfections - I suspect the "full grain"
is buffed off - and this will yield "top grain". Novillo is corrected further by using a heavier application of micro-pigments.
Dakota....contains few ones and twos and many three graded hides - the hides may or may not be buffed off, but they are absolutely sent to the to the embossing department, where they are embossed with an overall pattern that obscures and even outs imperfections. Afterwards the hides are sent to the spray line where they are sprayed with a very strong - probably 100% pigmented finish. When you scratch a Dakota hide - you are scratching through the pigmented finish.
In general, hides finished with a very fine micro pigment will have more natural leathery properties. More pigmented finishes will yield a harder more artificial feel.
Furthermore, finer hides will not be 100% chrome tanned but vegetable tanned or some combination of vegetable and chrome (re tanned skins) - these are rarely if ever used for automotive applications.
hmmm, I do not know the exact formulations but I would bet that....
Nappa, Merino, Novillo, and Dakota are all chrome tanned hides
All are dyed through - i.e. they are drum dyed - the color is not only on the surface
All are finished with a sprayed on micro pigmented finish that covers minor imperfections and evens out the surface - this spray contains varying proportions of pigment and dye . A spray with little pigment and/or mostly aniline dye would be used in the case of fine quality hides that require less correction.
I suspect.....
Nappa and Merino are "full grain" hides that are aniline dyed and sprayed with a micro- pigment . Full grain leather by its nature normally consists of a better selection. Hides are usually graded as 1, 2, 3, and 4 qualities - one is the top selection, but there is never a sufficient quantity of number ones to fulfill a requirement hence the need to even out variations with micro-pigments.
Novillo starts out as a less fine assortment - more imperfections - I suspect the "full grain"
is buffed off - and this will yield "top grain". Novillo is corrected further by using a heavier application of micro-pigments.
Dakota....contains few ones and twos and many three graded hides - the hides may or may not be buffed off, but they are absolutely sent to the to the embossing department, where they are embossed with an overall pattern that obscures and even outs imperfections. Afterwards the hides are sent to the spray line where they are sprayed with a very strong - probably 100% pigmented finish. When you scratch a Dakota hide - you are scratching through the pigmented finish.
In general, hides finished with a very fine micro pigment will have more natural leathery properties. More pigmented finishes will yield a harder more artificial feel.
Furthermore, finer hides will not be 100% chrome tanned but vegetable tanned or some combination of vegetable and chrome (re tanned skins) - these are rarely if ever used for automotive applications.
BigBen said:
E65Ross said:
A while ago there were a few people saying about how poorly BMW leather wears the miles. It's the the best quality leather of any car I've been in by a long stretch
Was the 'long stretch' comment a deliberate slip I am sure it is great quality leather but it always looks very baggy compared to say any other car with leather seats in the world.
It should be "it's not the best...."
The leather in my E65 doesn't feel or look as nice as other cars I've been in, but I don't think I could say it's poor quality and not very durable. The E38 I sold had almost 140k on it and, again, was wearing but it was far from the condition of some of the other cars on here. God knows what people do to wear them so badly.
E65Ross said:
BigBen said:
E65Ross said:
A while ago there were a few people saying about how poorly BMW leather wears the miles. It's the the best quality leather of any car I've been in by a long stretch
Was the 'long stretch' comment a deliberate slip I am sure it is great quality leather but it always looks very baggy compared to say any other car with leather seats in the world.It should be "it's not the best...."
The leather in my E65 doesn't feel or look as nice as other cars I've been in, but I don't think I could say it's poor quality and not very durable. The E38 I sold had almost 140k on it and, again, was wearing but it was far from the condition of some of the other cars on here. God knows what people do to wear them so badly.
It does not look bad per-se but always seems to be stretched which is not a good look.
Lowtimer said:
Entirely realistic. Any competent trimmer will quote you to replace the bolster (assuming the leather is actually worn through / split). The underlying foam may need replacement too if it's bean crushed down by some lardy type not getting in and out properly.
If it's merely looking shabby and the structure of the underlying bolster is OK then it's a realistic DIY job.
Thanks. It's shabby and completely out of character to the rest of the interior. That 4" section of the bolster looks a mess yet the rest of the interior completely and utterly spotless.If it's merely looking shabby and the structure of the underlying bolster is OK then it's a realistic DIY job.
Managed to get hold of a trimmer today - reckons <> £100 which is far less that I had assumed.
BigBen said:
Ah ok, I thought the missing not was in you later post saying your dad's M3 leather was not better than your E65.
It does not look bad per-se but always seems to be stretched which is not a good look.
Agreed. Short of getting it repaired (there is a local retrimmer not too far from here who I have used before, on my E21) I'm not sure what can be done about it to be honest....? It does not look bad per-se but always seems to be stretched which is not a good look.
Lowtimer said:
Agent Orange said:
Viewed a R129 today. All good but heavily scuffed drivers bolster. How realistic is a 'as new' repair?
Entirely realistic. Any competent trimmer will quote you to replace the bolster (assuming the leather is actually worn through / split). The underlying foam may need replacement too if it's bean crushed down by some lardy type not getting in and out properly. If it's merely looking shabby and the structure of the underlying bolster is OK then it's a realistic DIY job.
I put my r129 into Merc Newcastle for a service today and they have loaned me a CLA 220 CDI to drive around in.
My God, we sometimes question our sanity on this thread (see last weekend's outpouring of angst) but we are RIGHT. What a shockingly bad car. Not only does it look a dog's dinner (subjective, granted), but it drives awfully.
The suspension is sort of rounded-off-rock-hard; the engine is gruff and unrefined; the controls unintuitive (why does the ESP light show when the system is on? why is the hazard light switch not big and red? what is going on with the radio/telephone/navi/settings?). But worst of all, the visibility is really shocking. The windows are like slits with great big pillars between them. The combination of wing mirror and 'A' pillar really blots out a huge swathe of visibility; likewise the combination of silly "sports" seat and wide 'B' pillar; rearward the combination of seat and fat 'C' pillars makes any kind of parking really tricky. Of course, you haven't a hope of seeing the extremities of the car when parking. I haven't caned it yet but it doesn't feel very fast and there is zero feedback from the controls. Despite being a mere 257 miles old, it has a terrible squeak from one of the seats. And the interior plastics are awful.
Horrid, horrid, little car.
My God, we sometimes question our sanity on this thread (see last weekend's outpouring of angst) but we are RIGHT. What a shockingly bad car. Not only does it look a dog's dinner (subjective, granted), but it drives awfully.
The suspension is sort of rounded-off-rock-hard; the engine is gruff and unrefined; the controls unintuitive (why does the ESP light show when the system is on? why is the hazard light switch not big and red? what is going on with the radio/telephone/navi/settings?). But worst of all, the visibility is really shocking. The windows are like slits with great big pillars between them. The combination of wing mirror and 'A' pillar really blots out a huge swathe of visibility; likewise the combination of silly "sports" seat and wide 'B' pillar; rearward the combination of seat and fat 'C' pillars makes any kind of parking really tricky. Of course, you haven't a hope of seeing the extremities of the car when parking. I haven't caned it yet but it doesn't feel very fast and there is zero feedback from the controls. Despite being a mere 257 miles old, it has a terrible squeak from one of the seats. And the interior plastics are awful.
Horrid, horrid, little car.
r129sl said:
I put my r129 into Merc Newcastle for a service today and they have loaned me a CLA 220 CDI to drive around in.
My God, we sometimes question our sanity on this thread (see last weekend's outpouring of angst) but we are RIGHT. What a shockingly bad car. Not only does it look a dog's dinner (subjective, granted), but it drives awfully.
The suspension is sort of rounded-off-rock-hard; the engine is gruff and unrefined; the controls unintuitive (why does the ESP light show when the system is on? why is the hazard light switch not big and red? what is going on with the radio/telephone/navi/settings?). But worst of all, the visibility is really shocking. The windows are like slits with great big pillars between them. The combination of wing mirror and 'A' pillar really blots out a huge swathe of visibility; likewise the combination of silly "sports" seat and wide 'B' pillar; rearward the combination of seat and fat 'C' pillars makes any kind of parking really tricky. Of course, you haven't a hope of seeing the extremities of the car when parking. I haven't caned it yet but it doesn't feel very fast and there is zero feedback from the controls. Despite being a mere 257 miles old, it has a terrible squeak from one of the seats. And the interior plastics are awful.
Horrid, horrid, little car.
You weren't a fan then My God, we sometimes question our sanity on this thread (see last weekend's outpouring of angst) but we are RIGHT. What a shockingly bad car. Not only does it look a dog's dinner (subjective, granted), but it drives awfully.
The suspension is sort of rounded-off-rock-hard; the engine is gruff and unrefined; the controls unintuitive (why does the ESP light show when the system is on? why is the hazard light switch not big and red? what is going on with the radio/telephone/navi/settings?). But worst of all, the visibility is really shocking. The windows are like slits with great big pillars between them. The combination of wing mirror and 'A' pillar really blots out a huge swathe of visibility; likewise the combination of silly "sports" seat and wide 'B' pillar; rearward the combination of seat and fat 'C' pillars makes any kind of parking really tricky. Of course, you haven't a hope of seeing the extremities of the car when parking. I haven't caned it yet but it doesn't feel very fast and there is zero feedback from the controls. Despite being a mere 257 miles old, it has a terrible squeak from one of the seats. And the interior plastics are awful.
Horrid, horrid, little car.
Do the main dealers look after you in terms of price? The one over here was pretty expensive and made me look for indies...
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