Seat 'lane assist' ad -are driving standards now THAT bad..?
Discussion
Mr E said:
There is only one system that's turned off on the family car. This one.
Tried it. Hated it.
This pretty much.Tried it. Hated it.
In my old job we got lots of manufacturer demonstrators for assessment and as VAG were one of the approved manufacturers we got vehicles from almost all of their brands. They were always fully loaded and lane departure warning included which has transmogrified into this current system.
Now there's a slight bit of background information you need is that as part of our training we are encouraged to offside it where appropriate, straight line bends and roundabouts again only where clearly safe to do so.
Every single driver reported for inclusion in our report to the manufacturer was that the first thing they turned off and kept off was this system.
Pandering to the lowest common denominator again. Is it as a result of some edict from somewhere?
I have city safe breaking in my car and it doesn't affect the way I drive. In fact I barely think about it but much like a seat belt it's nice to have as a backup if necessary. Doesn't this lane departure thing fall into the same category? It won't encourage careless or sloppy driving, but will just correct a driver's mistake?
AlexIT said:
I have it on my Leon and despite the fact that we always think we are always 100% focused in driving sometimes, especially on long motorways trips, it warned me a few times of my distraction.
Another positive effect is that it forces you to use your direction indicators to overtake as otherwise you will have to struggle to cross the line.
Hold on am I reading this right?Another positive effect is that it forces you to use your direction indicators to overtake as otherwise you will have to struggle to cross the line.
You can't change lanes unless you indicate ?
Quick get this on every car in the uk pronto suddenly I feel the love for this
AW111 said:
Braking
Braking
Braking
BRAKING
FFS is this a site for people who know about cars or what
Otherwise not a bad post
That's my phone's predictive text or autocorrect or whatever it's called. I suppose it shows we shouldn't have too much faith in automatic systems put in to stop us making mistakes...! Braking
Braking
BRAKING
FFS is this a site for people who know about cars or what
Otherwise not a bad post
funinhounslow said:
That's my phone's predictive text or autocorrect or whatever it's called. I suppose it shows we shouldn't have too much faith in automatic systems put in to stop us making mistakes...!
That is a valid and interesting point : when people start to rely on the technology, they may become less observant.It probably says something about me that I have turned autocorrect and predictive text off on both my phone and tablet, although I like the fact that the phone still highlights words it thinks are misspelt, and offer a list of alternatives.
Then again, I spend a lot of my days writing code, where a single typo can cause hours of grief
This place is full of bitter old luddites who'll find reason to complain about any new technology. It's getting extremely tiresome; I'm sure the days of having a manual choke and seats with no headrests were better.
Lane Assist is a useful feature to have, it'll probably help lane discipline and keep people more alert. How exactly is this a bad thing? I'm sure no one's completely reliant on this, it's just a nice feature to have as a safety net. After all, not everyone is a driving god like all the players on here.
Lane Assist is a useful feature to have, it'll probably help lane discipline and keep people more alert. How exactly is this a bad thing? I'm sure no one's completely reliant on this, it's just a nice feature to have as a safety net. After all, not everyone is a driving god like all the players on here.
ensignia said:
This place is full of bitter old luddites who'll find reason to complain about any new technology. It's getting extremely tiresome; I'm sure the days of having a manual choke and seats with no headrests were better.
Lane Assist is a useful feature to have, it'll probably help lane discipline and keep people more alert. How exactly is this a bad thing? I'm sure no one's completely reliant on this, it's just a nice feature to have as a safety net. After all, not everyone is a driving god like all the players on here.
ThisLane Assist is a useful feature to have, it'll probably help lane discipline and keep people more alert. How exactly is this a bad thing? I'm sure no one's completely reliant on this, it's just a nice feature to have as a safety net. After all, not everyone is a driving god like all the players on here.
The same people also seem to justify their reasoning with lots of imaginary s
t that appears to be made up for the sole purpose of supporting their position.I swear I'd read less unfounded assertion on a forum for creationism.
SK425 said:
AlexIT said:
Another positive effect is that it forces you to use your direction indicators to overtake as otherwise you will have to struggle to cross the line.
Seriously?!king hell!! , and 2) I'm even more intrigued to drive with it now to see what it does and doesn't pick up on.
ensignia said:
Lane Assist is a useful feature to have, it'll probably help lane discipline and keep people more alert. How exactly is this a bad thing? I'm sure no one's completely reliant on this, it's just a nice feature to have as a safety net. After all, not everyone is a driving god like all the players on here.
I'm curious. The is a device that warns you if you start to cross into another lane without noticing. So no need to keep a good lookout of what you are doing, the car will let you know if you need to look up from Facebook. So how does that make you MORE alert?
And do you really think that people who are able to drive between two dotted white lines are 'driving gods'? Presumably this is something you struggle with if you hold those that can do it in such high esteem?
Devil2575 said:
This
The same people also seem to justify their reasoning with lots of imaginary st that appears to be made up for the sole purpose of supporting their position.
I swear I'd read less unfounded assertion on a forum for creationism.
Which 'imaginary sThe same people also seem to justify their reasoning with lots of imaginary s
t that appears to be made up for the sole purpose of supporting their position.I swear I'd read less unfounded assertion on a forum for creationism.
t' did you have in mind exactly? 
Having read through the thread it needs a few technical aspects explaining as people are getting mixed up about various lane departure warning and keeping technologies.
Lane Departure Warning (hell, let's call it LDW for clarity) does exactly that - provides a warning if the car leaves the driving lane. It's pretty common on new cars and even trucks nowadays and just warns the driver in case of the vehicle crossing the lane markings, either with a directional beeping sound or humming sound akin to crossing a rumble strip, via vibrating the steering akin to crossing a rumble strip or some systems vibrate the driver's seat on the appropriate side. Tactile warnings are personal to the driver and sound warnings can be heard by everyone in the car.
Lane Keep Assist (LKA) would act at the same time as a lane departure warning is provided to actively alter the heading of the vehicle to steer it back into the lane it is deviating from. It's usually done via the Electronic Power Assisted Steering (EPAS) however a similar effect can also be achieved using the ESC system to apply differential braking on one side of the vehicle to alter the heading.
LDW and LKA are safety systems and generally only active at speeds above 60km/h (37mph) to minimise annoying interventions when driving at lowers speeds in urban areas or other lower speed traffic. The magnitude of the steering input that LKA applies is of the order of a few Nm of torque that the average driver can easily overcome using a single finger pushing a against a steering wheel spoke and any notable driver inputs automatically deactivates the LKA system such that the driver is ultimately in charge of the vehicle if they react. Using the indicators demonstrates the driver's intent to change lanes thus temporarily suspending the system from activating.
The most recent development is Lane Guidance Support (LGS) which interprets the lane markings and provides minor steering inputs via the EPAS to keep the car centred as well as possible between the markings. Depending on the manufacturer and vehicle configuration LGS can function from a standstill up to 200km/h. Again the torque applied is of the order of a few Nm and the driver can easily overcome the LGS effect. The majority of systems require confirmation that the driver still maintains contact with the steering wheel, sensed by some element of resistance to the EPAS applied input or by contact affecting an electronic property (capacitive IIRC), otherwise they time out and advise the drive they are no longer providing support.
To the naysayers and tinfoil hatters amongst us you can be pretty sure that virtually every way you can think of of 'beating the system' has been accounted for, engineered out and tested in multiple software and hardware in the loop tests, track tests and road trip expeditions by the tier one supplier supplying the components, and the process repeated again by the vehicle manufacturer, before it finds it's way into your hands.
Having driven thousands of miles with various generations and iterations of all the systems over the years, for an every day chug around car that I was doing even half decent mileage in I'd always take a well engineered Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) system in combination with an LGS with LKA/LDW every time. For everyday driving ACC looks after speed and headway (I use it everywhere from 20s and 30s to NSL here and abroad) and I've found because LGS interprets the vehicle position relative to the lane markings and tweaks the heading as necessary it makes main road and motorway driving a less tiring experience. Hell there are even production cars out there that offer 'semi-autonomous low speed following' i.e automated steering and speed control in low speed traffic up to 30km/h - absolutely brilliant in stop-start traffic! Team said daily chug around with a fun car for proper driving on interesting drives and track days and you're sorted!
Granted the benefits all these systems offer can be used inappropriately.
Lane Departure Warning (hell, let's call it LDW for clarity) does exactly that - provides a warning if the car leaves the driving lane. It's pretty common on new cars and even trucks nowadays and just warns the driver in case of the vehicle crossing the lane markings, either with a directional beeping sound or humming sound akin to crossing a rumble strip, via vibrating the steering akin to crossing a rumble strip or some systems vibrate the driver's seat on the appropriate side. Tactile warnings are personal to the driver and sound warnings can be heard by everyone in the car.
Lane Keep Assist (LKA) would act at the same time as a lane departure warning is provided to actively alter the heading of the vehicle to steer it back into the lane it is deviating from. It's usually done via the Electronic Power Assisted Steering (EPAS) however a similar effect can also be achieved using the ESC system to apply differential braking on one side of the vehicle to alter the heading.
LDW and LKA are safety systems and generally only active at speeds above 60km/h (37mph) to minimise annoying interventions when driving at lowers speeds in urban areas or other lower speed traffic. The magnitude of the steering input that LKA applies is of the order of a few Nm of torque that the average driver can easily overcome using a single finger pushing a against a steering wheel spoke and any notable driver inputs automatically deactivates the LKA system such that the driver is ultimately in charge of the vehicle if they react. Using the indicators demonstrates the driver's intent to change lanes thus temporarily suspending the system from activating.
The most recent development is Lane Guidance Support (LGS) which interprets the lane markings and provides minor steering inputs via the EPAS to keep the car centred as well as possible between the markings. Depending on the manufacturer and vehicle configuration LGS can function from a standstill up to 200km/h. Again the torque applied is of the order of a few Nm and the driver can easily overcome the LGS effect. The majority of systems require confirmation that the driver still maintains contact with the steering wheel, sensed by some element of resistance to the EPAS applied input or by contact affecting an electronic property (capacitive IIRC), otherwise they time out and advise the drive they are no longer providing support.
To the naysayers and tinfoil hatters amongst us you can be pretty sure that virtually every way you can think of of 'beating the system' has been accounted for, engineered out and tested in multiple software and hardware in the loop tests, track tests and road trip expeditions by the tier one supplier supplying the components, and the process repeated again by the vehicle manufacturer, before it finds it's way into your hands.
Having driven thousands of miles with various generations and iterations of all the systems over the years, for an every day chug around car that I was doing even half decent mileage in I'd always take a well engineered Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) system in combination with an LGS with LKA/LDW every time. For everyday driving ACC looks after speed and headway (I use it everywhere from 20s and 30s to NSL here and abroad) and I've found because LGS interprets the vehicle position relative to the lane markings and tweaks the heading as necessary it makes main road and motorway driving a less tiring experience. Hell there are even production cars out there that offer 'semi-autonomous low speed following' i.e automated steering and speed control in low speed traffic up to 30km/h - absolutely brilliant in stop-start traffic! Team said daily chug around with a fun car for proper driving on interesting drives and track days and you're sorted!
Granted the benefits all these systems offer can be used inappropriately.
foggy said:
To the naysayers and tinfoil hatters amongst us you can be pretty sure that virtually every way you can think of of 'beating the system' has been accounted for, engineered out and tested in multiple software and hardware in the loop tests, track tests and road trip expeditions by the tier one supplier supplying the components, and the process repeated again by the vehicle manufacturer, before it finds it's way into your hands.
No mate, you're wrong. All this interference and 'elf and safety is what's wrong with this once great country. People can't think for themselves these days, it's a bloody disgrace. First they forced ABS on us, then EBD, then came belt warnings and auto lights. They won't be happy until we're all automatrons like in that Toyota GT86 advert.foggy said:
Having read through the thread it needs a few technical aspects explaining as people are getting mixed up about various lane departure warning and keeping technologies.
Thanks for that. Interesting.I'm still surprised that it's the indicators that the system looks at to distinguish deliberate from inadvertent just because of how common it is to cross a white line without wanting to be indicating. It makes sense that if you are indicating the system should not intervene, but not necessarily that if you aren't indicating the system should intervene. Built up areas and things like straightlining roundabouts would be taken care of by the speed threshold I guess. And of course, as you say, the driver can always override the system. I wonder how intrusive it feels when you do override it.
Ultimately, like all the controls and systems, it's put in the car for the driver to use - you're in charge so you can choose to turn it off in situations where you don't want it, just like the radio (assuming it can be switched on and off simply - people seem to be implying that it can).
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