The perfect 2/3 car combination?
Discussion
I think I have a good combintion starting with Range Rover L322 diesel all round run about,BMW 320i convertible for the wife and hoildays tours and Jaguar XJ V8 for Saturday trips to watch my son play rugby and Sunday drives.I also have a money pit BMW 2002 tii on a full rebuild.I know thats four but one's not on the road.
I'm must admit I'm quite surprised at the number of Range Rovers on this thread. That's not a criticism, it's just an observation, but if we were to count up the instances of various cars, I reckon the RR would be way out in the lead. The reason I find it interesting is that it seems to me a bit strange on a car forum, because surely the RR represents everything that car enthusiasts traditionally hate: heavy, slow, high CofG, soft suspension, very high unsprung weight and (for some of us) four wheel drive. It's interesting, because I'm obviously way off the mark with what I consider as a car enthusiast - as usual my finger is a long way from the pulse!
RobM77 said:
I'm must admit I'm quite surprised at the number of Range Rovers on this thread. That's not a criticism, it's just an observation, but if we were to count up the instances of various cars, I reckon the RR would be way out in the lead. The reason I find it interesting is that it seems to me a bit strange on a car forum, because surely the RR represents everything that car enthusiasts traditionally hate: heavy, slow, high CofG, soft suspension, very high unsprung weight and (for some of us) four wheel drive. It's interesting, because I'm obviously way off the mark with what I consider as a car enthusiast - as usual my finger is a long way from the pulse!
I guess the point of a multi-car garage is to pick cars which don't have to compromise - so something where being brilliant to drive is the only priority and something that needs to be as comfortable and practical as possible, driving pleasure not important. otolith said:
RobM77 said:
I'm must admit I'm quite surprised at the number of Range Rovers on this thread. That's not a criticism, it's just an observation, but if we were to count up the instances of various cars, I reckon the RR would be way out in the lead. The reason I find it interesting is that it seems to me a bit strange on a car forum, because surely the RR represents everything that car enthusiasts traditionally hate: heavy, slow, high CofG, soft suspension, very high unsprung weight and (for some of us) four wheel drive. It's interesting, because I'm obviously way off the mark with what I consider as a car enthusiast - as usual my finger is a long way from the pulse!
I guess the point of a multi-car garage is to pick cars which don't have to compromise - so something where being brilliant to drive is the only priority and something that needs to be as comfortable and practical as possible, driving pleasure not important. i think i'd need to be greedy and go with 4 cars. mainly because i think track days do too much damage/wear to your P&J and track days are best enjoyed at 9/10 - 10/10 pace which necessitates proper safety equipment.
daily driver/ tow car - has to be a range rover
weekend/fun car - something lightweight and modern like an elise, or retro charming such as an old 911
track car - either a mental caterham, radical, or caged rwd saloon
city shopper - clio 182/197
daily driver/ tow car - has to be a range rover
weekend/fun car - something lightweight and modern like an elise, or retro charming such as an old 911
track car - either a mental caterham, radical, or caged rwd saloon
city shopper - clio 182/197
RobM77 said:
Isn't a RR a huge compromise though between on road ability and off road ability? Something designed specifically for the road with no off road ability will always be: lighter, so therefore faster and more economical for a given engine output; lower, so handle and ride much better as well as more practical with a more accessible roof for bikes, surfboards etc; and finally it'll have suspension specifically tuned for the road, so handle and ride much better. I could understand a list with an E/S class or 5/7 series twinned with a Caterham or Porsche, but the RR seems like an odd choice for car enthusiasts who I thought cared about performance and handling? They obviously don't I presume, so it's my understanding of the term 'car enthusiast' that's in need of adjustment (which is why I was careful to say it wasnt a criticism on anyone other than myself - I have trust that everyone's chosen their cars carefully).
I guess the question is "what car would you choose to be chauffeured in?". For me, it probably wouldn't be an SUV, though it does look increasingly as if that's the sector where manufacturers focus on comfort and practically rather than pseudo-sportiness. I think I've mentioned before that my aunt's Lexus RX had a better ride than my uncle's A8. Can you get large estatate cars which ride well? Volvo perhaps? Four wheel drive does have an appeal in the sense of dealing with poor conditions, again provided that it isn't negated by "sporty" tyres.for me the appeal of the rangerover is in it's size and luxury. air suspension, wafty v8, loads of passenger space, commanding view of the road ahead, big boot and a capable tow machine.
i would have an SUV over an estate in most circumstances. i really only like fast estates which are often unable or unsuited to towing. for track days/club racing you need a lot of kit and want a quiet comfortable trip home afterwards.
i would have an SUV over an estate in most circumstances. i really only like fast estates which are often unable or unsuited to towing. for track days/club racing you need a lot of kit and want a quiet comfortable trip home afterwards.
RobM77 said:
Isn't a RR a huge compromise though between on road ability and off road ability? Something designed specifically for the road with no off road ability will always be: lighter, so therefore faster and more economical for a given engine output; lower, so handle and ride much better as well as more practical with a more accessible roof for bikes, surfboards etc; and finally it'll have suspension specifically tuned for the road, so handle and ride much better. I could understand a list with an E/S class or 5/7 series twinned with a Caterham or Porsche, but the RR seems like an odd choice for car enthusiasts who I thought cared about performance and handling? They obviously don't I presume, so it's my understanding of the term 'car enthusiast' that's in need of adjustment (which is why I was careful to say it wasnt a criticism on anyone other than myself - I have trust that everyone's chosen their cars carefully).
Can I just point-out that there are different ways of enjoying vehicles and that not every one has to be a "performance" car?- If you judge my Discovery as if it were a Ferrari, you'd think it the worst car in the world...however, for what I want it for, I'm not sure there's anything better, hence me currently spending several £thousand on making it better than new structurally and mechanically. I see it as a comfortable barge / estate with massive capacity that can cruise along in to Le Mans in comfort on one weekend, then embarrass old Defenders (with their open diffs) off road the next. It'll look similar to these (below) when "finished" (In inverted commas because these projects are always ongoing):
My ideal 3-car garage would have a TVR Tuscan S on one side and my current Discovery (with many £thousands spent on off-road modifications and improvements) on the other, but with something vaguely practical (I like your M3 saloon suggestion) in the middle for daily stuff / when the others are in bits
. If I were a millionaire, I'd probably own as many 4x4s (proper ones, not the X6-type crap) as performance cars.Currently drive an old e55 estate on LPG. It pretty much covers everything 2 or 3 different cars gave me previously - Van sized space, 7 seats, comfortable, cheap to run (genuinely cheaper than my Passat TDi), reasonably quick, bit of a sleeper to the general public and potential track day toy if/when required. And I don't give a s
t about what it looks like - car park scars etc, so can leave it anywhere.
However, pre-procreating I had a fun fleet:
w140 s280 - daily
w140 s320L - long wheel base limo. Mint. Weekend wafter and occasional wedding car.
w140 s320 - stripped track day toy. Added nearly 500kg of lightness
w140 s500 - lowrider. Hydraulics pumps and lots of batteries. Very silly.
Total value less than £5k.
Had a bit of a soft spot for w140's
t about what it looks like - car park scars etc, so can leave it anywhere.However, pre-procreating I had a fun fleet:
w140 s280 - daily
w140 s320L - long wheel base limo. Mint. Weekend wafter and occasional wedding car.
w140 s320 - stripped track day toy. Added nearly 500kg of lightness
w140 s500 - lowrider. Hydraulics pumps and lots of batteries. Very silly.
Total value less than £5k.
Had a bit of a soft spot for w140's
Clivey said:
RobM77 said:
Isn't a RR a huge compromise though between on road ability and off road ability? Something designed specifically for the road with no off road ability will always be: lighter, so therefore faster and more economical for a given engine output; lower, so handle and ride much better as well as more practical with a more accessible roof for bikes, surfboards etc; and finally it'll have suspension specifically tuned for the road, so handle and ride much better. I could understand a list with an E/S class or 5/7 series twinned with a Caterham or Porsche, but the RR seems like an odd choice for car enthusiasts who I thought cared about performance and handling? They obviously don't I presume, so it's my understanding of the term 'car enthusiast' that's in need of adjustment (which is why I was careful to say it wasnt a criticism on anyone other than myself - I have trust that everyone's chosen their cars carefully).
Can I just point-out that there are different ways of enjoying vehicles and that not every one has to be a "performance" car?- If you judge my Discovery as if it were a Ferrari, you'd think it the worst car in the world...however, for what I want it for, I'm not sure there's anything better, hence me currently spending several £thousand on making it better than new structurally and mechanically. I see it as a comfortable barge / estate with massive capacity that can cruise along in to Le Mans in comfort on one weekend, then embarrass old Defenders (with their open diffs) off road the next. It'll look similar to these (below) when "finished" (In inverted commas because these projects are always ongoing):
My ideal 3-car garage would have a TVR Tuscan S on one side and my current Discovery (with many £thousands spent on off-road modifications and improvements) on the other, but with something vaguely practical (I like your M3 saloon suggestion) in the middle for daily stuff / when the others are in bits
. If I were a millionaire, I'd probably own as many 4x4s (proper ones, not the X6-type crap) as performance cars.That is of course assuming that the RR owners don't need the off road ability beyond the odd unmade road or driveway. If they do (as I suspect you do from your closing comment), then I've no doubt that it's the best car for the job bar none.
I would have thought that people who need off road ability are in a tiny minority though, which is why I made my assumption given the prevalence of RRs on this topic, unless I've accidentally stumbled onto a farming website 
ETA: In a sense I am actually comparing a RR to a Ferrari: both are compromised because they have to fullfill two roles: one role of performing well away from the public road (muddy field and race track respectively) and one role of performing well on the road. That is in essence why most car enthusiasts run a 2/3 car garage, so they can have something specialised for each of their needs rather than a compromise: with me it's a track car and a road car, but with others it may be an off road car and a road car. If I had a requirement to drive off road then being a car nut I suspect I'd go to the trouble of having a very good off roader and a very good practical road car. Someone less committed to their cars (less like the epic PHer above with all those cars squashed into his parking area!) would probably just have one car that did both: in my case that would be a 911/GTR and in yours perhaps a RR. Isn't the whole point of a 2/3 car garage to liberate us from compromises and indulge our love of cars?
Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 16th December 14:10
Utterpiffle said:
Currently drive an old e55 estate on LPG. It pretty much covers everything 2 or 3 different cars gave me previously - Van sized space, 7 seats, comfortable, cheap to run (genuinely cheaper than my Passat TDi), reasonably quick, bit of a sleeper to the general public and potential track day toy if/when required. And I don't give a st about what it looks like - car park scars etc, so can leave it anywhere.
However, pre-procreating I had a fun fleet:
w140 s280 - daily
w140 s320L - long wheel base limo. Mint. Weekend wafter and occasional wedding car.
w140 s320 - stripped track day toy. Added nearly 500kg of lightness
w140 s500 - lowrider. Hydraulics pumps and lots of batteries. Very silly.
Total value less than £5k.
Had a bit of a soft spot for w140's
Love it t about what it looks like - car park scars etc, so can leave it anywhere.However, pre-procreating I had a fun fleet:
w140 s280 - daily
w140 s320L - long wheel base limo. Mint. Weekend wafter and occasional wedding car.
w140 s320 - stripped track day toy. Added nearly 500kg of lightness
w140 s500 - lowrider. Hydraulics pumps and lots of batteries. Very silly.
Total value less than £5k.
Had a bit of a soft spot for w140's
Nice work!RobM77 said:
No, I didn't mean that at all, I think I just put my point across poorly. I wasn't judging a RR as if it were a Ferrari, I was judging against luxury and spacious road cars. I was saying that a RR is a compromise for a road vehicle and something like a 5 series, E Class or Lexus 400 series does the job much better, because they're designed purely with the aim of being comfortable practical and spacious transport on the road, plus (and it's a plus) they drive better. The minute you introduce any off road credentials to such a vehicle it's got to have a much higher ride height, four wheel drive, different suspension settings, and even different tyres, all of which negatively effect its ability to be a road car both in performance terms, but also in terms of ride, practicality, cost and comfort. Compare an X5 with a 5 series for instance - the X5 doesn't ride as well, it's noisier, the roof rack is less accessible, the boot is less useable for most things (tall and short vs long and shallow), it's less economical (mpg, tyre wear, brake pad wear, clutch wear etc) and yes, it is slower and handles worse too. I totally get the whole X5/RR thing, it just surprised me on PH that's all. It's my perception of a PHer that's in error, not your purchase decision.
That is of course assuming that the RR owners don't need the off road ability beyond the odd unmade road or driveway. If they do (as I suspect you do from your closing comment), then I've no doubt that it's the best car for the job bar none. I would have thought that people who need off road ability are in a tiny minority though, which is why I made my assumption given the prevalence of RRs on this topic, unless I've accidentally stumbled onto a farming website
ETA: In a sense I am actually comparing a RR to a Ferrari: both are compromised because they have to fullfill two roles: one role of performing well away from the public road (muddy field and race track respectively) and one role of performing well on the road. That is in essence why most car enthusiasts run a 2/3 car garage, so they can have something specialised for each of their needs rather than a compromise: with me it's a track car and a road car, but with others it may be an off road car and a road car. If I had a requirement to drive off road then being a car nut I suspect I'd go to the trouble of having a very good off roader and a very good practical road car. Someone less committed to their cars (less like the epic PHer above with all those cars squashed into his parking area!) would probably just have one car that did both: in my case that would be a 911/GTR and in yours perhaps a RR. Isn't the whole point of a 2/3 car garage to liberate us from compromises and indulge our love of cars?
A lot of people, myself included, like the upright position you have in the RR - it's something of course no saloon car can offer, and in my experience no other SUV offers. The seat position and fantastic visibility you have all around makes the RR an incredibly relaxing and easy car to use. I've never driven a car (top-end saloon's included) which leaves you feeling as fresh after big mileage as the RR does.That is of course assuming that the RR owners don't need the off road ability beyond the odd unmade road or driveway. If they do (as I suspect you do from your closing comment), then I've no doubt that it's the best car for the job bar none.
I would have thought that people who need off road ability are in a tiny minority though, which is why I made my assumption given the prevalence of RRs on this topic, unless I've accidentally stumbled onto a farming website ETA: In a sense I am actually comparing a RR to a Ferrari: both are compromised because they have to fullfill two roles: one role of performing well away from the public road (muddy field and race track respectively) and one role of performing well on the road. That is in essence why most car enthusiasts run a 2/3 car garage, so they can have something specialised for each of their needs rather than a compromise: with me it's a track car and a road car, but with others it may be an off road car and a road car. If I had a requirement to drive off road then being a car nut I suspect I'd go to the trouble of having a very good off roader and a very good practical road car. Someone less committed to their cars (less like the epic PHer above with all those cars squashed into his parking area!) would probably just have one car that did both: in my case that would be a 911/GTR and in yours perhaps a RR. Isn't the whole point of a 2/3 car garage to liberate us from compromises and indulge our love of cars?
Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 16th December 14:10
Not to mention that they are really solidly put together, have proper off-roading credentials, are super practical and are incredibly luxurious places to sit inside.
But I think it is the unique driver position that makes the RR such a huge hit as so many people's ideal luxury cruiser & daily driver, it is just so effortless to nip to the shops or to drive hundreds of miles.
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