The perfect 2/3 car combination?

[luckystrike]

2 cars would be a toy and a snotter, standard fare. This is likely to manifest itself soon enough with another mk1 MX5 in addition to the current mondeo.

3 cars would probably end up with the mondeo compromise being split between a van and a hatch like a clio 1*2 or civic type r.

[Craikeybaby]

For us it would be:
Sensible car
sports car in the garage for me
Fiat 500 for the girlfriend


At the moment we don't have a sensible car, but as a space on the drive has been freed by building a garage, that will be my next purchase. I'm thinking Impreza estate/Alfa 159 sportwage/130i. The sports car is a mk3 MR2, but if I had more money it would be an Elise. and the only thing that would get my girlfriend out of her 500 is a newer 500.

Once we have the sensible car, I think we'll have our perfect combination, although to be fair we've managed for the last 5 years with a sports car/Fiat 500 combination.

[Corbeliere]

My current toys are;
My Bentley W12 GT coupe, which her indoors uses more than me.
Her indoors has a modified 2.4T V70, very quick and go-kart like.
I also have a Renault 651 Tractor for cutting our 8 acres of grass.
Good combo I reckon.

[ORD]

Craikeybaby said:

For us it would be:
Sensible car
sports car in the garage for me
Fiat 500 for the girlfriend


At the moment we don't have a sensible car, but as a space on the drive has been freed by building a garage, that will be my next purchase. I'm thinking Impreza estate/Alfa 159 sportwage/130i. The sports car is a mk3 MR2, but if I had more money it would be an Elise. and the only thing that would get my girlfriend out of her 500 is a newer 500.

Once we have the sensible car, I think we'll have our perfect combination, although to be fair we've managed for the last 5 years with a sports car/Fiat 500 combination.

A 1 series as a sensible car plus a Fiat 500? I would get a new girlfriend. She is blocking the space for a useful or fun car with that crapbox Fiat

[M3DGE]

Oooh, you didn't set a budget, so:-

FFRR
DB9
XK 120 DHC

[RobM77]

sealtt said:

A lot of people, myself included, like the upright position you have in the RR - it's something of course no saloon car can offer, and in my experience no other SUV offers. The seat position and fantastic visibility you have all around makes the RR an incredibly relaxing and easy car to use. I've never driven a car (top-end saloon's included) which leaves you feeling as fresh after big mileage as the RR does.

Not to mention that they are really solidly put together, have proper off-roading credentials, are super practical and are incredibly luxurious places to sit inside.

But I think it is the unique driver position that makes the RR such a huge hit as so many people's ideal luxury cruiser & daily driver, it is just so effortless to nip to the shops or to drive hundreds of miles.

That's certainly why most people buy them for exclusive road use; it just surprised me to see quite so many 'car people' doing that (way more than we've seen Caterhams, BMWs, Lotuses, classics, Minis or other typical petrolhead cars). I realise that I'm into handling and driving, but I know petrolheads into looks, nostalgia, sound, engineering etc, but I've just yet to meet any who are into a 'commanding driving position'. The only petrolhead I've ever known with an off roader for road use is an off road nut (ex racer in fact) who uses it off road on a regular basis. I'm clearly mixing with more of a sub-set of petrolheads than I realised

[anonymous-user]

Easy this one:

Speed: My slightly tweaked Seat Ibiza track car.




Economy: BMW i3 (or an i8 if i could afford it!).






Practicallity: Volkswagen T5 California.




Job jobbed ;-)

[AndrewCrown]

Dear Rob... I have been reading your threads and I think the best thing you can do is spend a week with a proper Range Rover then you will absolutley 'get it' immediately. Most of my petrol head friends have Range Rover's... its like a constant none of us could do without. Take one look at any Goodwood event car park... The thing about the Range Rover... is absolute capability.. move anything, virtually anywhere...and all of us have more interesting things too from Lotus to Porsche.. Maserati...etc etc. .. BTW my RR has a bar in the boot!

RobM77 said:

That's certainly why most people buy them for exclusive road use; it just surprised me to see quite so many 'car people' doing that (way more than we've seen Caterhams, BMWs, Lotuses, classics, Minis or other typical petrolhead cars). I realise that I'm into handling and driving, but I know petrolheads into looks, nostalgia, sound, engineering etc, but I've just yet to meet any who are into a 'commanding driving position'. The only petrolhead I've ever known with an off roader for road use is an off road nut (ex racer in fact) who uses it off road on a regular basis. I'm clearly mixing with more of a sub-set of petrolheads than I realised

[budfox]

Money no object:

Range Rover
Veyron
DB9

Reality check:

Leaf
Swift Sport
Octavia VRs

[NCE 61]

Prius
A180
Tuscan S

Daily. Hers & weekend toy

[Blu3R]

RobM77 said:

No, I didn't mean that at all, I think I just put my point across poorly. I wasn't judging a RR as if it were a Ferrari, I was judging against luxury and spacious road cars. I was saying that a RR is a compromise for a road vehicle and something like a 5 series, E Class or Lexus 400 series does the job much better, because they're designed purely with the aim of being comfortable practical and spacious transport on the road, plus (and it's a plus) they drive better. The minute you introduce any off road credentials to such a vehicle it's got to have a much higher ride height, four wheel drive, different suspension settings, and even different tyres, all of which negatively effect its ability to be a road car both in performance terms, but also in terms of ride, practicality, cost and comfort. Compare an X5 with a 5 series for instance - the X5 doesn't ride as well, it's noisier, the roof rack is less accessible, the boot is less useable for most things (tall and short vs long and shallow), it's less economical (mpg, tyre wear, brake pad wear, clutch wear etc) and yes, it is slower and handles worse too. I totally get the whole X5/RR thing, it just surprised me on PH that's all. It's my perception of a PHer that's in error, not your purchase decision.

That is of course assuming that the RR owners don't need the off road ability beyond the odd unmade road or driveway. If they do (as I suspect you do from your closing comment), then I've no doubt that it's the best car for the job bar none. I would have thought that people who need off road ability are in a tiny minority though, which is why I made my assumption given the prevalence of RRs on this topic, unless I've accidentally stumbled onto a farming website

ETA: In a sense I am actually comparing a RR to a Ferrari: both are compromised because they have to fullfill two roles: one role of performing well away from the public road (muddy field and race track respectively) and one role of performing well on the road. That is in essence why most car enthusiasts run a 2/3 car garage, so they can have something specialised for each of their needs rather than a compromise: with me it's a track car and a road car, but with others it may be an off road car and a road car. If I had a requirement to drive off road then being a car nut I suspect I'd go to the trouble of having a very good off roader and a very good practical road car. Someone less committed to their cars (less like the epic PHer above with all those cars squashed into his parking area!) would probably just have one car that did both: in my case that would be a 911/GTR and in yours perhaps a RR. Isn't the whole point of a 2/3 car garage to liberate us from compromises and indulge our love of cars?

Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 16th December 14:10

I ran a RR Sport for a few months (I know most will suggest that's not a proper RR) and quite frankly I just didn't get it at all. Compared to my E61 5 series estate it was worse in just about every way that I measure a road CAR. People ask me what it was like to drive and I always tell them it was the most comfortable van I've ever driven. It was like one of those children's playground things with the wooden shape nailed to one huge spring.

[RobM77]

AndrewCrown said:

Dear Rob... I have been reading your threads and I think the best thing you can do is spend a week with a proper Range Rover then you will absolutley 'get it' immediately. Most of my petrol head friends have Range Rover's... its like a constant none of us could do without. Take one look at any Goodwood event car park... The thing about the Range Rover... is absolute capability.. move anything, virtually anywhere...and all of us have more interesting things too from Lotus to Porsche.. Maserati...etc etc. .. BTW my RR has a bar in the boot!

RobM77 said:

That's certainly why most people buy them for exclusive road use; it just surprised me to see quite so many 'car people' doing that (way more than we've seen Caterhams, BMWs, Lotuses, classics, Minis or other typical petrolhead cars). I realise that I'm into handling and driving, but I know petrolheads into looks, nostalgia, sound, engineering etc, but I've just yet to meet any who are into a 'commanding driving position'. The only petrolhead I've ever known with an off roader for road use is an off road nut (ex racer in fact) who uses it off road on a regular basis. I'm clearly mixing with more of a sub-set of petrolheads than I realised

Hi Andrew. I confess I haven't spent a week in one. I did have an X5 for a week a few years ago though. The trouble is I never drive off road, so the benefits were lost on me. It did the mpg of a Ferrari, yet had the straight line performance of a Yaris. The ride and handling were impressive for what it was, but I couldn't say it drove much better than something like a Vectra or Mondeo. It didn't have roof bars, but if it did how would I get my windsurf board on and off the roof?! The bulk and poor handling also made it a poor companion on the country roads in the area I live. Now, I realise that a RR is better off road and more luxurious than an X5, but given that I don't drive off road I can't help but think how superior a 5 series estate would be in every way: a bigger more usable boot, more comfortable, more mpg, more performance, better handling, accessible roof bars, vastly cheaper running costs, etc. Don't get me wrong, if I had to drive properly off road and take the same vehicle on long drives, I'd have a RR in a heartbeat. For use on the road though, sorry, I just don't get it. And this is before we get onto the subject of safety. I realise things have improved since the old days, when they'd roll dramatically at quite modest speeds if you cornered too hard (Fifth Gear famously had an S1 tumbling after a 40mph swerve), but they still have an alarming tendency to tip over in accidents, not to mention cause hideous damage to other cars due to the difference in hard point height, both of which I've been unlucky enough to witness first hand in the last few years.

[vanordinaire]

I currently run a decent combination for a fairly low budget, Mk1 MX5, Doublecab Ford Ranger 4x4 pickup, Seat Ibiza estate.
If money was no object, the estate would become an AMG E-class, the pickup would become an American 50's classic and the Mx5 would get a new set of tyres.

[Clivey]

RobM77 said:

No, I didn't mean that at all, I think I just put my point across poorly. I wasn't judging a RR as if it were a Ferrari, I was judging against luxury and spacious road cars. I was saying that a RR is a compromise for a road vehicle and something like a 5 series, E Class or Lexus 400 series does the job much better, because they're designed purely with the aim of being comfortable practical and spacious transport on the road, plus (and it's a plus) they drive better. The minute you introduce any off road credentials to such a vehicle it's got to have a much higher ride height, four wheel drive, different suspension settings, and even different tyres, all of which negatively effect its ability to be a road car both in performance terms, but also in terms of ride, practicality, cost and comfort. Compare an X5 with a 5 series for instance - the X5 doesn't ride as well, it's noisier, the roof rack is less accessible, the boot is less useable for most things (tall and short vs long and shallow), it's less economical (mpg, tyre wear, brake pad wear, clutch wear etc) and yes, it is slower and handles worse too. I totally get the whole X5/RR thing, it just surprised me on PH that's all. It's my perception of a PHer that's in error, not your purchase decision.

I see where you're coming from and understand your POV regarding handling etc. The thing is that "handling" isn't easily quantified. No; a Range Rover won't do the same lap times, have the same lat. grip figures etc. etc. as a saloon, that's obvious. The way they drive is still brilliant. What I would say is don't rule them out if it's comfort and space you're after - they're simply a fantastic way to travel. Besides; if the state of some of the roads around here get worse, I'll need my AT tyres!

As for practicality: I've had a double mattress inside the back of my Discovery (cue the jokes - yes; it has privacy glass ). A tumble drier will go straight in the boot with room to spare and the amount of stuff you can take camping etc. means that you don't have to compromise. - We took mountain bikes with the wheels still on, a large petrol generator, a large beer cooler etc. to LM this year; the booze we brought back would have filled the boot of my old Citroen C4 on it's own.

RobM77 said:

That is of course assuming that the RR owners don't need the off road ability beyond the odd unmade road or driveway. If they do (as I suspect you do from your closing comment), then I've no doubt that it's the best car for the job bar none. I would have thought that people who need off road ability are in a tiny minority though, which is why I made my assumption given the prevalence of RRs on this topic, unless I've accidentally stumbled onto a farming website

I "need" to go off road about as much as anyone "needs" to do trackdays. Actually, I only became interested in 4x4s about 3 years ago - I like travel and after reading / watching some stuff on overlanding, it really appealed to me. Off-road driving is a completely different kind of challenge to fast road / track driving but no less involving. It's amazing how scary 5mph can be in the right (or wrong) places. - When mine's ready, the limit to my travel will be time off work...if I could, I'd take a 4x4 around the world.

RobM77 said:

ETA: In a sense I am actually comparing a RR to a Ferrari: both are compromised because they have to fullfill two roles: one role of performing well away from the public road (muddy field and race track respectively) and one role of performing well on the road. That is in essence why most car enthusiasts run a 2/3 car garage, so they can have something specialised for each of their needs rather than a compromise: with me it's a track car and a road car, but with others it may be an off road car and a road car. If I had a requirement to drive off road then being a car nut I suspect I'd go to the trouble of having a very good off roader and a very good practical road car. Someone less committed to their cars (less like the epic PHer above with all those cars squashed into his parking area!) would probably just have one car that did both: in my case that would be a 911/GTR and in yours perhaps a RR. Isn't the whole point of a 2/3 car garage to liberate us from compromises and indulge our love of cars?

Compared to your average (non-performance) large saloon, something like a Range Rover really doesn't feel like it's compromised / out of place on the road. No, a RRS won't handle like a 5-Series but they're enjoyable in their own right. On the other end of the scale, an old Series Land Rover is just as much of an event to drive, but for different reasons - think classic vs modern supercar.

[hondansx]

I think if money were no object, i'd have a Cayenne Turbo as a daily and general do-it-all car, a McLaren P1 for hooning, and a Singer 911 for romantic Sunday drives.

[ORD]

I've spent some time thinking about the 3 car garage. I would go for:

Macan Turbo S (my likes SUVs and I like Porsches)

E92 M3 (my daily - proper back seats for the kids but a gorgeous engine)

Singer 911 (fun)

I considered more exotic stuff (e.g. 458 Speciale), but I couldn't have an automatic 'box in a weekend car, and cars like that are simply far too fast to be enjoyed on the road.

If I was allowed a 4th car, I would have an Ariel Atom.

[m444ttb]

Mine is doable from about £20k up to about £450k depending on exactly which models you choose so I'll pick the first that come to mind:

1. Westfield FW Duratec S/C
2. Porsche 996 TurboS
3. BMW E70 X5 4.8 / Porsche 955 Cayenne V8 (for towing a trailer for the Westfield)

[Craikeybaby]

ORD said:

Craikeybaby said:

For us it would be:
Sensible car
sports car in the garage for me
Fiat 500 for the girlfriend


At the moment we don't have a sensible car, but as a space on the drive has been freed by building a garage, that will be my next purchase. I'm thinking Impreza estate/Alfa 159 sportwage/130i. The sports car is a mk3 MR2, but if I had more money it would be an Elise. and the only thing that would get my girlfriend out of her 500 is a newer 500.

Once we have the sensible car, I think we'll have our perfect combination, although to be fair we've managed for the last 5 years with a sports car/Fiat 500 combination.

A 1 series as a sensible car plus a Fiat 500? I would get a new girlfriend. She is blocking the space for a useful or fun car with that crapbox Fiat

Nah, she's a keeper. She can have whatever car she wants, then mine don't get filled with shoes/CD cases/whatever else women seem to leave in cars. The 500 isn't really that bad either, as far as little shopping cars go anyway.

[Craikeybaby]

ORD said:

Craikeybaby said:

For us it would be:
Sensible car
sports car in the garage for me
Fiat 500 for the girlfriend


At the moment we don't have a sensible car, but as a space on the drive has been freed by building a garage, that will be my next purchase. I'm thinking Impreza estate/Alfa 159 sportwage/130i. The sports car is a mk3 MR2, but if I had more money it would be an Elise. and the only thing that would get my girlfriend out of her 500 is a newer 500.

Once we have the sensible car, I think we'll have our perfect combination, although to be fair we've managed for the last 5 years with a sports car/Fiat 500 combination.

A 1 series as a sensible car plus a Fiat 500? I would get a new girlfriend. She is blocking the space for a useful or fun car with that crapbox Fiat

Nah, she's a keeper. She can have whatever car she wants, then mine don't get filled with shoes/CD cases/whatever else women seem to leave in cars. The 500 isn't really that bad either, as far as little shopping cars go anyway.

[AndrewCrown]

My Dear Chap... comparing a Range Rover Vogue with BMW X5 is a complete anathema to me.... I would be like me saying a Lotus 2-eleven is like a Toyota Celica 190/T... they might share an engine... but that is where the similarity ends.

I would be interested to see the source of this 'tipping data' you quote.

On hard point height...I acknowledge there is some work to be done there across the whole industry and all vehicles, High and low (Lotus) but not purely applicable to RR.... and there are so many more mitigating factors when we start down the safety angle... e.g. DIA, Inexperience, road conditions, driver error, tyre condition.

The RR is quality British engineering in a package which is endlessly useful and is a matter of taste.

RobM77 said:

Hi Andrew. I confess I haven't spent a week in one. I did have an X5 for a week a few years ago though. The trouble is I never drive off road, so the benefits were lost on me. It did the mpg of a Ferrari, yet had the straight line performance of a Yaris. The ride and handling were impressive for what it was, but I couldn't say it drove much better than something like a Vectra or Mondeo. It didn't have roof bars, but if it did how would I get my windsurf board on and off the roof?! The bulk and poor handling also made it a poor companion on the country roads in the area I live. Now, I realise that a RR is better off road and more luxurious than an X5, but given that I don't drive off road I can't help but think how superior a 5 series estate would be in every way: a bigger more usable boot, more comfortable, more mpg, more performance, better handling, accessible roof bars, vastly cheaper running costs, etc. Don't get me wrong, if I had to drive properly off road and take the same vehicle on long drives, I'd have a RR in a heartbeat. For use on the road though, sorry, I just don't get it. And this is before we get onto the subject of safety. I realise things have improved since the old days, when they'd roll dramatically at quite modest speeds if you cornered too hard (Fifth Gear famously had an S1 tumbling after a 40mph swerve), but they still have an alarming tendency to tip over in accidents, not to mention cause hideous damage to other cars due to the difference in hard point height, both of which I've been unlucky enough to witness first hand in the last few years.

Edited by AndrewCrown on Tuesday 16th December 23:47