What makes a good road car?

[TurboHatchback]

As the title really, what qualities or features do you think make a really good road car (for the UK)? Maybe I'm getting old and boring but what I look for in a road car has completely changed since I started driving. I used to look for light weight, screaming engines, manual gearboxes, no driver aids, minimal gadgets and two doors. Now I look for exactly the opposite.

What I now think makes a good road car:

• Comfy seats
• Forgiving suspension/good ride comfort
• Refinement
• Good sound system
• Automatic gearbox
• Safe chassis biased towards understeer with ABS and ESP. Preferably AWD.
• An engine with big low end and mid range power, not so fussed about top end
• Huge mechanical grip
• Automatic, electric, heated everything
• Four doors & lots of luggage space
• Big fuel tank

What I think is completely irrelevant 99.99% of the time in a road car:

• Manual gearshifting
• Steering feel
• Handling
• Revving to 9000rpm

On a track I would swap those lists round but for the road I really think all the 'PH' qualities that many on here claim to want are just annoyances most of the time. What's your opinion?

[kambites]

Depends on what you use it for and what you enjoy. For me with my usage, your second list are pretty much what makes a good road car, and the top list (apart from ride comfort) are mostly irrelevant.

ETA: For my daily driver the following are my priorities, roughly in order of importance:

Quality of damping
Steering feel
Throttle response
Chassis balance
Manual clutch and gearbox
Ride quality
Driving position/ergonomics
Brake feel

But then my commute is four miles of suburban/country roads and I drive my daily driver in heavy traffic maybe ten times a year if I'm unlucky.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 16th December 09:38

[jamieduff1981]

I still value steering feel, handling balance and a nice engine very highly in a road car.

I've always thought hothatches were about as appealing as being skewered in the eye though, so going by your username of "turbohatchback" I don't think our interests in cars overlap very much.

[Al U]

TurboHatchback said:

What I think is completely irrelevant 99.99% of the time in a road car:

• Manual gearshifting
• Steering feel
• Handling
• Revving to 9000rpm

Don't go near an S2000 then.

[TA14]

TurboHatchback said:

As the title really, what qualities or features do you think make a really good road car (for the UK)? Maybe I'm getting old and boring but what I look for in a road car has completely changed since I started driving. I used to look for light weight, screaming engines, manual gearboxes, no driver aids, minimal gadgets and two doors. Now I look for exactly the opposite.

What I now think makes a good road car:

• Comfy seats
• Forgiving suspension/good ride comfort
• Refinement
• Good sound system
• Automatic gearbox
• Safe chassis biased towards understeer with ABS and ESP. Preferably AWD.
• An engine with big low end and mid range power, not so fussed about top end
• Huge mechanical grip
• Automatic, electric, heated everything
• Four doors & lots of luggage space
• Big fuel tank

What I think is completely irrelevant 99.99% of the time in a road car:

• Manual gearshifting
• Steering feel
• Handling
• Revving to 9000rpm

On a track I would swap those lists round but for the road I really think all the 'PH' qualities that many on here claim to want are just annoyances most of the time. What's your opinion?

After all of that I thought that you might be trying to justify a BMW 750 or an XJR, not a Golf

[Riknos]

Must be an age thing


As I have all of the below on my daily drive:

Al U said:

TurboHatchback said:

What I think is completely irrelevant 99.99% of the time in a road car:

• Manual gearshifting
• Steering feel
• Handling
• Revving to 9000rpm

Don't go near an S2000 then.

Plus heated seats, 2 doors, 2 seats, no boot etc, and it's been fine for me for a daily drive for years now.

[TurboHatchback]

I live in Dorset surrounded by fossils in MPVs and do most of my driving on motorways so my usage does lean towards the barge type of car but as far as I can see most of the UK is similar. Do you really do most of your driving hooning down welsh b-roads or are you (like me) stuck in traffic, following queues of 40mph-ers and wafting down motorways?

Brake feel is a term I've never understood, what exactly are you feeling through the brakes? I expect a nice linear response of braking force to pedal pressure but short of the ABS activating I wouldn't expect to feel any feedback through the pedal.

TA14 said:

After all of that I thought that you might be trying to justify a BMW 750 or an XJR, not a Golf

I'm not trying to justify anything but if you're interested I am hoping to change the Golf for a big V8 barge very shortly.

[kambites]

TurboHatchback said:

I live in Dorset surrounded by fossils in MPVs and do most of my driving on motorways so my usage does lean towards the barge type of car but as far as I can see most of the UK is similar. Do you really do most of your driving hooning down welsh b-roads or are you (like me) stuck in traffic, following queues of 40mph-ers and wafting down motorways?

I don't think I've taken my daily driver on a dual carriageway or motorway this year. I also can't remember being stuck in traffic in it this year unless you count queueing at traffic lights for five minutes.

As for brake feel - with a good braking system I can somehow tell when the wheels are approaching the limit of adhesion before the wheel actually locks; I've no idea what it is I'm feeling and whether I'm feeling it through the brakes themselves or some other element of the car - it's not a conscious thing. I can threshold brake reasonably accurately in my car, I haven't a hope in the wife's. As a rule I really don't like servo assisted brakes, especially the stupidly over-servoed setups VAG tend to fit.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 16th December 10:01

[Charlie1986]

im thinking the same just now as my journeys are all motorway to and back from work. My heart says get something ill enjoy but in reality I will be doing 50-60 on the m25 and will go for something comfy what will take the miles with putting my in a back brace.

[TurboHatchback]

kambites said:

I don't think I've taken my daily driver on a dual carriageway or motorway this year. I also can't remember being stuck in traffic in it this year unless you count queueing at traffic lights for five minutes.

Maybe I should live where you do.

[PanzerCommander]

Far too subjective. For me the answer has been Mustang for the past 5 1/2 years and will continue to be so for the forseeable future because there is frankly nothing else that offers me what the Mustang does.

[kambites]

TurboHatchback said:

kambites said:

I don't think I've taken my daily driver on a dual carriageway or motorway this year. I also can't remember being stuck in traffic in it this year unless you count queueing at traffic lights for five minutes.

Maybe I should live where you do.

I don't think it's location as such - I like in suburban Hampshire. I just live near where I work and am very rarely in a hurry to get anywhere else so I tend to take scenic routes. Thinking about it I have actually been on the motorway once - I went up to Luton airport and back and I did the trip up on the motorway; the trip back was cross-country. Still, it's definitely the exception not the norm for me.

I drive the wife's car on the motorway a fair bit - two or three times a month but never in rush-hour.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 16th December 10:01

[toon10]

I have absolutely no interest in track days/track cars so a good everyday road car means something different to me. It has to be comfortable, a nice place to sit but also have an element of fun and performance.

Important:
Petrol
Manual box
RWD
Good handling but...
Not too harsh for a decent ride
A few luxuries rather than stripped out weight saving track machines
Metal roof
Decent range (I don't want to be filling up every 150 miles)

[skyrover]

In terms of pleasantness to drive and be driven I would say the number one key is "smoothness".

To get "smoothness" you want:

1. Torque, lots of it.
2. Automatic gears
3. Softly sprung
4. Soft, cushy seats

Other aspects to improve the driving/driven experience:

5. A quiet well sealed interior
6. A lofty driving position
7. Light steering
8. Tinted glass
9. Space... legroom and elbow room, as much as possible
10. A quality sound system that integrates with modern phones etc
11. Solid, weighty switches and a grippy, chunky steering wheel.
12. Plenty of storage for all your junk.

[blueg33]

For 7 years my daily Audi A6 pretty much met the Op's wish list for a daily driver, but ultimately I got bored, it was just a mode of transport and little else.

My daily is now a Lotus Evora, it still has comfy seats and cruise control, it rides well but is so much more enjoyable and you get a sense of occasion everytime you see it and climb into it. On the motorway its ok, off the motorway and you get maximum enjoyment that a barge could never give.

[Megaflow]

The quality of damping and steering feel are probably two of the most important points for a road car, as they are probably the greatest interaction you have with the car.

I went from a Volvo S40 T5 to a Mondeo 2.5T, the Volvo had electro hydraulic PAS and decidedly average dampers, the Mondeo has true hydraulic PAS and much better damping. As a result, the Mondeo is a much better car than the Volvo, even though the Volvo was much quieter and had a superb stereo.

[Debaser]

TurboHatchback said:

As the title really, what qualities or features do you think make a really good road car (for the UK)? Maybe I'm getting old and boring but what I look for in a road car has completely changed since I started driving. I used to look for light weight, screaming engines, manual gearboxes, no driver aids, minimal gadgets and two doors. Now I look for exactly the opposite.

What I now think makes a good road car:

• Comfy seats
• Forgiving suspension/good ride comfort
• Refinement
• Good sound system
• Automatic gearbox
• Safe chassis biased towards understeer with ABS and ESP. Preferably AWD.
• An engine with big low end and mid range power, not so fussed about top end
• Huge mechanical grip
• Automatic, electric, heated everything
• Four doors & lots of luggage space
• Big fuel tank

What I think is completely irrelevant 99.99% of the time in a road car:

• Manual gearshifting
• Steering feel
• Handling
• Revving to 9000rpm

On a track I would swap those lists round but for the road I really think all the 'PH' qualities that many on here claim to want are just annoyances most of the time. What's your opinion?

You have very different priorities to me. At the top of my list would be
RWD
Great handling and steering
Manual gearbox
High revving NA engine with sharp response

Though I do admit to liking my creature comforts which includes things like proper doors and a roof, a heater, and a radio.

I've owned cars that don't meet my criteria above and I've not enjoyed owning or driving them, regardless of how comfortable the seats are, or how warm the heated steering wheel gets.

[skyrover]

Not sure I would ever want a revvy preaky engine in my daily runabout.

[TurboHatchback]

skyrover said:

In terms of pleasantness to drive and be driven I would say the number one key is "smoothness".

To get "smoothness" you want:

1. Torque, lots of it.
2. Automatic gears
3. Softly sprung
4. Soft, cushy seats

Other aspects to improve the driving/driven experience:

5. A quiet well sealed interior
6. A lofty driving position
7. Light steering
8. Tinted glass
9. Space... legroom and elbow room, as much as possible
10. A quality sound system that integrates with modern phones etc
11. Solid, weighty switches and a grippy, chunky steering wheel.
12. Plenty of storage for all your junk.

I agree, apart from the tinted windows. To me they make a car seem gloomy and hard to see out of.

[skyrover]

I find a light manufacturers tint to be "just right".

Not so much as to be noticable, but takes the glare out of the sunlight.

Common on Japanese and American cars as they tend to see more sunlight.