What makes a good road car?
Discussion
TurboHatchback said:
I'm not trying to justify anything but if you're interested I am hoping to change the Golf for a big V8 barge very shortly.
Living in Dorset is probably a large cause for this, Poole/Bournemouth is endless suburbia and you will NEVER get a clear run on the good country roads, even at 2am there will be a small hatchback blocking your progress.I live in Dorset too and sometimes I feel like giving up on my F430 Spider as it's just so wasted, I don't have enough opportunity to go to track days (no tracks for about 2hours in any direction being based in Dorset), and when I take it out for a spin on a nice day I come home frustrated having not even been able to open it up. I had more fun driving in Zone 1 London - at least I could blast off from traffic lights and enjoy hearing the engine noise!
As such, a comfy car which encourages you to relax and enjoy the ride & not to drive fast, is a pretty good option around here which is why I run a RR Sport daily driver.
sealtt said:
Living in Dorset is probably a large cause for this, Poole/Bournemouth is endless suburbia and you will NEVER get a clear run on the good country roads, even at 2am there will be a small hatchback blocking your progress.
I live in Dorset too and sometimes I feel like giving up on my F430 Spider as it's just so wasted, I don't have enough opportunity to go to track days (no tracks for about 2hours in any direction being based in Dorset), and when I take it out for a spin on a nice day I come home frustrated having not even been able to open it up. I had more fun driving in Zone 1 London - at least I could blast off from traffic lights and enjoy hearing the engine noise!
Highlighting my above point perfectly I live in Dorset too and sometimes I feel like giving up on my F430 Spider as it's just so wasted, I don't have enough opportunity to go to track days (no tracks for about 2hours in any direction being based in Dorset), and when I take it out for a spin on a nice day I come home frustrated having not even been able to open it up. I had more fun driving in Zone 1 London - at least I could blast off from traffic lights and enjoy hearing the engine noise!
sealtt said:
Living in Dorset is probably a large cause for this, Poole/Bournemouth is endless suburbia and you will NEVER get a clear run on the good country roads, even at 2am there will be a small hatchback blocking your progress.
I live in Dorset too and sometimes I feel like giving up on my F430 Spider as it's just so wasted, I don't have enough opportunity to go to track days (no tracks for about 2hours in any direction being based in Dorset), and when I take it out for a spin on a nice day I come home frustrated having not even been able to open it up. I had more fun driving in Zone 1 London - at least I could blast off from traffic lights and enjoy hearing the engine noise!
Really? I live in Bournemouth and I rarely have an issue in having a spirited drive especially heading out on to the Cranborne Road then out across Cranborne Chase towards Tollard Royal, down Zig Zag hill and either do it in reverse on the way back, or along the Shaftesbury high road back towards Blandford then Back via Badbury rings (although that road does get rammed with biddies heading for Kingston Lacey). Dorset is great for driving, but like you say, avoid the Poole/Bournemouth/Christchurch conurbation.I live in Dorset too and sometimes I feel like giving up on my F430 Spider as it's just so wasted, I don't have enough opportunity to go to track days (no tracks for about 2hours in any direction being based in Dorset), and when I take it out for a spin on a nice day I come home frustrated having not even been able to open it up. I had more fun driving in Zone 1 London - at least I could blast off from traffic lights and enjoy hearing the engine noise!
TheDoggingFather said:
Really? I live in Bournemouth and I rarely have an issue in having a spirited drive especially heading out on to the Cranborne Road then out across Cranborne Chase towards Tollard Royal, down Zig Zag hill and either do it in reverse on the way back, or along the Shaftesbury high road back towards Blandford then Back via Badbury rings (although that road does get rammed with biddies heading for Kingston Lacey). Dorset is great for driving, but like you say, avoid the Poole/Bournemouth/Christchurch conurbation.
Looking at your garage presumably that would be in the mini? you might find that the roads you're on are well suited to the amount of power and the physical size of the car so you can really get into giving it a good blast, but the F430 is either too wide for the roads or doesn't have anywhere that can take more than half a gear's worth of full throttle before you have to back off for a corner.Also, you shouldn't drive so far in reverse on public roads. Accident waiting to happen.
luckystrike said:
TheDoggingFather said:
Really? I live in Bournemouth and I rarely have an issue in having a spirited drive especially heading out on to the Cranborne Road then out across Cranborne Chase towards Tollard Royal, down Zig Zag hill and either do it in reverse on the way back, or along the Shaftesbury high road back towards Blandford then Back via Badbury rings (although that road does get rammed with biddies heading for Kingston Lacey). Dorset is great for driving, but like you say, avoid the Poole/Bournemouth/Christchurch conurbation.
Looking at your garage presumably that would be in the mini? you might find that the roads you're on are well suited to the amount of power and the physical size of the car so you can really get into giving it a good blast, but the F430 is either too wide for the roads or doesn't have anywhere that can take more than half a gear's worth of full throttle before you have to back off for a corner.
luckystrike said:
Also, you shouldn't drive so far in reverse on public roads. Accident waiting to happen.
I wonder why people keep flashing their lights and shaking their fist at me 
TheDoggingFather said:
The Mini yes, I have attacked equally hard in my Honda (again not the greatest of power houses) and friends I've been out with friends in M power cars, Maserati's, Viper's etc. They all end the same sort of run with a huge grin on their face. They're a healthy mixture of relatively twisty bits followed by nice open straights which the Ferrari would appreciate
Happy to hear. I must admit it's a problem I come across on the bike fairly often; lots of the roads just aren't challenging enough to be thrilling at sensible speeds, and winding it up to the point when they are just has you worrying for your license which saps the fun.skyrover said:
In terms of pleasantness to drive and be driven I would say the number one key is "smoothness".
To get "smoothness" you want:
1. Torque, lots of it.
2. Automatic gears
3. Softly sprung
4. Soft, cushy seats
Other aspects to improve the driving/driven experience:
5. A quiet well sealed interior
6. A lofty driving position
7. Light steering
8. Tinted glass
9. Space... legroom and elbow room, as much as possible
10. A quality sound system that integrates with modern phones etc
11. Solid, weighty switches and a grippy, chunky steering wheel.
12. Plenty of storage for all your junk.
Have I missed a parrot? That sounds like all those bloody awful Merkin sTo get "smoothness" you want:
1. Torque, lots of it.
2. Automatic gears
3. Softly sprung
4. Soft, cushy seats
Other aspects to improve the driving/driven experience:
5. A quiet well sealed interior
6. A lofty driving position
7. Light steering
8. Tinted glass
9. Space... legroom and elbow room, as much as possible
10. A quality sound system that integrates with modern phones etc
11. Solid, weighty switches and a grippy, chunky steering wheel.
12. Plenty of storage for all your junk.
tboxes Hertz used to give me when I was in the US on business. I'd go with:
- A quality chassis that combines good balance, traction, decent compliance & iron body control
- Steering with feel and good weighting
- Control weights to match
- Engine that combines good mid-range with a nice touch of 'zing' up top for when I'm in the mood.
- Driving position that lets me sit 'in' the car with wheel close to my chest and legs straight
- Supportive, comfortable seats
- Excellent heating and ventilation
- Good NVH, especially road and wind noise suppression
- Room for 4/5 plus decent amount of kit
- Decent economy, reliability and running costs
- Good spares and Specialist support
- Decent wireless
Transmission I can take or leave, I like the DCT type 'boxes but usually end up in manual mode in my Gti. As for 'connectivity', I get enough of that the rest of my life, I'm perfectly happy with Radio 4 and concentrating on the task in hand.
Sounds to me I should go an look at the Golf R and M135i and be prepared to spend some money on suspension. In fact a Golf R with the sort of damping you see on a WRC tarmac car would do me just fine thanks.
SS7
TheDoggingFather said:
Really? I live in Bournemouth and I rarely have an issue in having a spirited drive especially heading out on to the Cranborne Road then out across Cranborne Chase towards Tollard Royal, down Zig Zag hill and either do it in reverse on the way back, or along the Shaftesbury high road back towards Blandford then Back via Badbury rings (although that road does get rammed with biddies heading for Kingston Lacey). Dorset is great for driving, but like you say, avoid the Poole/Bournemouth/Christchurch conurbation.
That's interesting, I've not really driven around there as only lived here a year. I live on Sandbanks so normally take the ferry to the other side to go for a run, still I feel a bit trapped here as it takes no less than 20mins to get out of suburbia!!! But when it's nice next I will drive over to Wimborne and check out this route.My favourite road I've found here is the B3351 'New Road', lovely route and 60mph (give or take 10%) is plenty to enjoy it. But there is nothing worse than having a run along it only for some little hatchback to be totting along at 40mph just as you are getting into things. I was hoping to be very clever and went over there when the ferry was shut, thinking there wouldn't be anyone on it, but there was still plenty of very 'selfish' drivers who ruined my run
luckystrike said:
Happy to hear. I must admit it's a problem I come across on the bike fairly often; lots of the roads just aren't challenging enough to be thrilling at sensible speeds, and winding it up to the point when they are just has you worrying for your license which saps the fun.
Yes, I hate the idea of having to break the limits to have a good run. Doesn't feel very sustainable. That's why good twisty NSL roads are the best, unfortunately though you can't really overtake too easily on them, due to the nature of twisty roads! So any traffic ruins your run. Any long straight though and it's wasted on the F430, as I'm sure is the same on your bike, as flooring it would just result in stupid speeds, and easing off is not very exciting.Going to track days is the best, but like I said a bit inconvenient to do, just a nice run for an hour once a week would keep me happy. Is that so much to ask?
The concept of 'a good road car' really depends on what you want to use it for and what your preferences are.
I would imagine that if you had a long commute, in rubbish traffic and frequent poor quality roads and weather, the most comfortable, silent barge would do the job nicely.
I like the feeling of older cars, but with a decent degree of drivability and comfort - but with a narrow size and good visibility for the city. I find my old merc perfect for these purposes. A 1,000 mile trip around the highlands over a weekend is dispatched easily, and being an old car it's amusing in its own way, and enjoyable at reasonable speeds.
For a weekend fun car, I would like a simple car, with a manual gearbox and light weight (an elise?), and for speedy touring a merc r129 SL v8 would be great.
As I am forced to use my car every day, I would not want to be forced into using a diesel engine - life is too short!
I would imagine that if you had a long commute, in rubbish traffic and frequent poor quality roads and weather, the most comfortable, silent barge would do the job nicely.
I like the feeling of older cars, but with a decent degree of drivability and comfort - but with a narrow size and good visibility for the city. I find my old merc perfect for these purposes. A 1,000 mile trip around the highlands over a weekend is dispatched easily, and being an old car it's amusing in its own way, and enjoyable at reasonable speeds.
For a weekend fun car, I would like a simple car, with a manual gearbox and light weight (an elise?), and for speedy touring a merc r129 SL v8 would be great.
As I am forced to use my car every day, I would not want to be forced into using a diesel engine - life is too short!
the type of road dictates what the perfect road car would be, eg:
a few years ago I spent 18months commuting on B roads through rural suffolk and norfolk, at the time I had a eunos roadster - it was the perfect car for the route, commuting was enjoyable, particularly in the summer, but in the winter something like an impreza WRX would have been better?
Fast forward a few years, a 15 mile each way commute in shropshire was perfect in a morgan 4/4, but change of job meant that 40mile each way trek on either A19 or A1in the North East and not really that much fun in the morgan, so a comfy mid size car was the oder of the day. The merc 190e was pretty much perfect - smooth, comfortable, weatherproof, automatic, characterful. The problem was that an estate would have been even more useful, I tried in vain to find a w124 estate, as this was the closest to a 190e, but ended up with a W202 estate - it was great, but it conked out.
So my perfect road car for the last 12 months and 20k miles is a subaru outback 3.0r - it does everything that a road car should, and ticks all the boxes: -
comfy,
quick enough when needed,
can be hustled if I get the opportunity
gets nearly 30mpg, so reasonably cheap to run,
weatherproof and secure on muddy/slippy roads,
reasonable radio
lovely smooth engine
probably not as characterful as some of it's predecessors, but it does have an earnest charm
a few years ago I spent 18months commuting on B roads through rural suffolk and norfolk, at the time I had a eunos roadster - it was the perfect car for the route, commuting was enjoyable, particularly in the summer, but in the winter something like an impreza WRX would have been better?
Fast forward a few years, a 15 mile each way commute in shropshire was perfect in a morgan 4/4, but change of job meant that 40mile each way trek on either A19 or A1in the North East and not really that much fun in the morgan, so a comfy mid size car was the oder of the day. The merc 190e was pretty much perfect - smooth, comfortable, weatherproof, automatic, characterful. The problem was that an estate would have been even more useful, I tried in vain to find a w124 estate, as this was the closest to a 190e, but ended up with a W202 estate - it was great, but it conked out.
So my perfect road car for the last 12 months and 20k miles is a subaru outback 3.0r - it does everything that a road car should, and ticks all the boxes: -
comfy,
quick enough when needed,
can be hustled if I get the opportunity
gets nearly 30mpg, so reasonably cheap to run,
weatherproof and secure on muddy/slippy roads,
reasonable radio
lovely smooth engine
probably not as characterful as some of it's predecessors, but it does have an earnest charm
sealtt said:
TheDoggingFather said:
Really? I live in Bournemouth and I rarely have an issue in having a spirited drive especially heading out on to the Cranborne Road then out across Cranborne Chase towards Tollard Royal, down Zig Zag hill and either do it in reverse on the way back, or along the Shaftesbury high road back towards Blandford then Back via Badbury rings (although that road does get rammed with biddies heading for Kingston Lacey). Dorset is great for driving, but like you say, avoid the Poole/Bournemouth/Christchurch conurbation.
That's interesting, I've not really driven around there as only lived here a year. I live on Sandbanks so normally take the ferry to the other side to go for a run, still I feel a bit trapped here as it takes no less than 20mins to get out of suburbia!!! But when it's nice next I will drive over to Wimborne and check out this route.sealtt said:
My favourite road I've found here is the B3351 'New Road', lovely route and 60mph (give or take 10%) is plenty to enjoy it. But there is nothing worse than having a run along it only for some little hatchback to be totting along at 40mph just as you are getting into things. I was hoping to be very clever and went over there when the ferry was shut, thinking there wouldn't be anyone on it, but there was still plenty of very 'selfish' drivers who ruined my run
That's ballsy, I've driven that road a few times, very cautious on the throttle and eyes on sockets. I'd rather head a bit further up on the Worth/Langton Matravers Road (B3069), take in the views and open the taps a little Completely agree with the OP. I still love sports cars and have an itch to have one as a weekend car but as a daily driver it's comfort / safety / driver aids all the way. Currently have a CLS and looking for its replacement.
Considering another CLS, S-class or A8. Test drove a Maserati QP and really enjoyed driving it but not sure I could live with the ride on a daily basis. Actually finding the process of choosing a new car this time really difficult. First world problems...
Considering another CLS, S-class or A8. Test drove a Maserati QP and really enjoyed driving it but not sure I could live with the ride on a daily basis. Actually finding the process of choosing a new car this time really difficult. First world problems...
shoestring7 said:
Have I missed a parrot? That sounds like all those bloody awful Merkin stboxes Hertz used to give me when I was in the US on business.
I'd go with:
- A quality chassis that combines good balance, traction, decent compliance & iron body control
- Steering with feel and good weighting
- Control weights to match
- Engine that combines good mid-range with a nice touch of 'zing' up top for when I'm in the mood.
- Driving position that lets me sit 'in' the car with wheel close to my chest and legs straight
- Supportive, comfortable seats
- Excellent heating and ventilation
- Good NVH, especially road and wind noise suppression
- Room for 4/5 plus decent amount of kit
- Decent economy, reliability and running costs
- Good spares and Specialist support
- Decent wireless
Transmission I can take or leave, I like the DCT type 'boxes but usually end up in manual mode in my Gti. As for 'connectivity', I get enough of that the rest of my life, I'm perfectly happy with Radio 4 and concentrating on the task in hand.
Agreed with most of the above, Mrs Mave has got the family car so I want something as small as I can get away with (ie 2+2 rather than 4/5 seats). Lots of narrow lanes near us, width makes a surprising difference to how much progress you can make (When I had an A6 I was constantly needing to squeeze into the hedge to let cars get past). Also I like a manual gearbox, especially if it's slightly truculant. Makes for a bit of mini satisfaction when it goes smoothly! I'd also add good headlights and visibility as that's often the limiting factor on our B-roads.tboxes Hertz used to give me when I was in the US on business. I'd go with:
- A quality chassis that combines good balance, traction, decent compliance & iron body control
- Steering with feel and good weighting
- Control weights to match
- Engine that combines good mid-range with a nice touch of 'zing' up top for when I'm in the mood.
- Driving position that lets me sit 'in' the car with wheel close to my chest and legs straight
- Supportive, comfortable seats
- Excellent heating and ventilation
- Good NVH, especially road and wind noise suppression
- Room for 4/5 plus decent amount of kit
- Decent economy, reliability and running costs
- Good spares and Specialist support
- Decent wireless
Transmission I can take or leave, I like the DCT type 'boxes but usually end up in manual mode in my Gti. As for 'connectivity', I get enough of that the rest of my life, I'm perfectly happy with Radio 4 and concentrating on the task in hand.
Mave said:
Depends on how big the revvy preaky engine is! Nothing wrong with having a car with enough power when you're in runabout mode, then lots more power when you're in the mood....
Indeed, it is a relative term. I haven't sampled that many different engines but I can't help but feel the most enjoyable ones are always the ones that benefit from being wrung out to get the absolute best out of them while still having more than enough shove when pottering around.
Edited by Patrick Bateman on Tuesday 16th December 22:07
My family road car requirements:
Decent boot
Comfortable
Adequate grunt/power/performance
Not too thirsty
Pedal arrangement that allows heel and toe
Competent handling on all road types
Not too firm
some sidewall on the tyres
some ground clearance at the front
Tyres that work well on wet, greasy and on dry roads
Some Steering feel
Nothing too precious or delicate
Decent forward and reverse lighting
Decent horn(!)
Some of the above needed to be improved/added to on my current car.
Decent boot
Comfortable
Adequate grunt/power/performance
Not too thirsty
Pedal arrangement that allows heel and toe
Competent handling on all road types
Not too firm
some sidewall on the tyres
some ground clearance at the front
Tyres that work well on wet, greasy and on dry roads
Some Steering feel
Nothing too precious or delicate
Decent forward and reverse lighting
Decent horn(!)
Some of the above needed to be improved/added to on my current car.
Those are some other good points. Wheels that can deal with bad surfaces/potholes and make minimal road noise (so small as possible), decent ground clearance. The manufacturers seem to be pushing in exactly the opposite direction, no doubt led by consumer demand but worrying your car is going to shatter on every bump does detract from the relaxation somewhat.
Jeez.
A lot of car talk that makes me think I must be reading an article in "The Leisurely Elderly Gentleman Monthly" or on Mumsnet.
We have a few more years of petrol engines and should be out enjoying them while we can, rather than looking for a sofa on wheels. Plenty of time to sit on a sofa when at home or when even older or when petrol engines are outlawed and we are all pootling along in semi-automated euroboxes with electric powerplants, boring us stless.
The last thing in the World we should be doing is searching out luxobarges and trying to experience the drive as little as possible.
A lot of car talk that makes me think I must be reading an article in "The Leisurely Elderly Gentleman Monthly" or on Mumsnet.
We have a few more years of petrol engines and should be out enjoying them while we can, rather than looking for a sofa on wheels. Plenty of time to sit on a sofa when at home or when even older or when petrol engines are outlawed and we are all pootling along in semi-automated euroboxes with electric powerplants, boring us s
tless.The last thing in the World we should be doing is searching out luxobarges and trying to experience the drive as little as possible.
There's a reason why there are so many different makes and models of cars out there, and that's that everyone has different priorities. For me though:
The Essentials - things a car must have for me to even consider it. This isn't on a whim, it's after driving lots of cars without these things and learning that I just can't live without them.
Comfortable. The first hurdle is that I have to be able to fit in a car comfortably. I hate the fashionable 'sit up and beg' driving position where the pedals are beneath me, my legs are bent at 90 degrees and my arms are outstretched to a low steering wheel raked at a funny angle. This rules out a lot of cars for me these days sadly. I had a Peugeot 107 for a week recently and I loved the car (for what it was), but had nasty shoulder pains for weeks afterwards. I have a dodgy back too, so comfort is very important to me.
Good controls. The second test a car must pass for me to like it is that it must have controls that respond linearly to inputs (goodbye Porsche & Vauxhall), and without any lag on them (goodbye all non-M petrol BMWs). I've bought cars that have laggy controls and driven cars for long periods of time without linear controls, in the hope I'd get used to it, but nope, it just winds me up too much. I don't mind turbo lag too much, which is obviously a lag and a non-linearity so you'd think I would hate it, but provided it happens in a straight line I'm fine with it - straight lines don't really interest me.
Going Further - Once a car passes the above tests, then my priorities start. These are the things that make me love a car, rather than just get on ok with it.
Good ride/damping: This is either a black art or manufacturers skimp and save on dampers and their tuning, because not many road cars get this right.
Feedback: I prefer cars with good feedback through the chassis and steering, the more the better. I also like feedback to be equal from the corners of the car (compare an Elise with a Caterham for example).
Handling 1: I like to be able to interact with a car in the corners and to feel as if I'm in control. Good balance is a nice to have (such as my BMW has), but not essential (I love Lotuses, and they're inherently unbalanced, but that's ok because the handling and interaction is so good).
Handling 2: I like to be able to access understeer, neutral-steer and oversteer at will. Not full blown massive slip angle stuff (not on the road anyway!), but I like to be able to adjust the slip angles at front and rear accordingly. Some people will say this is unsafe on the road, but on the contrary, I don't feel safe driving a car that won't allow me to do this. A car is always generating slip angles front and rear and I like to interact with these to create a desired effect.
Handling 3: The lower the CofG, generally the more I like a car. Even if a car handles well, but has a high CofG, it's not really very satisfying for me to drive it.
Good gearbox: Everyone likes a nice gearchange. The best I've tried in a road car is the Honda S2000, with the NSX and CTR coming very close.
SizeThe less of it the better! This also applies to a feeling of size - i.e. how much confidence you have to place the car where you want it. Caterhams are about as good as road cars get in this department.
Good examples of the above, i.e. road cars that I like driving, are any Lotus (if we assume the 2-11 isn't really a road car, then the best I've tried is the current Lotus Exige V6), any recent diesel BMW 1/3 series (last gen without M-Sport, current gen with), BMW E92 M3, the Honda NSX, any BMW E30 or E36, Toyota MR2 mk1 and mk3 (I've not driven the mk2), Mazda MX5 and any Caterham. There might be others, but those spring to mind initially.
Finally, there are specifics for each category of car that I own:
Daily Driver: For me this must have roof bars at a sensible height for lifting heavy things on (chest height), it must be as quiet as possible on the motorway, and I must be able to get my cello and bike in the back. My BMW 320d is the best I've had.
Track car: It must excel at all of the above things, and I find good performance nice too in a track car (good acceleration, braking and cornering). My Lotus 2-Eleven is the best track day car I've had, and for racing (i.e. non road legal cars) I like slicks and wings single seaters - my 2-Eleven feels very big and heavy compared to a good single seater.
GT car: I don't have one right now, but it's long been a dream of mine to have a third car for big euro road trips. This car must be fairly civilised at speed, but have lots of character, e.g. from a nice engine. I've not driven many cars from this category, but if magazine reviews are true, then a Ferrari 550 would probably be my favourite (to date I've just sat in one, not driven one).
The Essentials - things a car must have for me to even consider it. This isn't on a whim, it's after driving lots of cars without these things and learning that I just can't live without them.
Comfortable. The first hurdle is that I have to be able to fit in a car comfortably. I hate the fashionable 'sit up and beg' driving position where the pedals are beneath me, my legs are bent at 90 degrees and my arms are outstretched to a low steering wheel raked at a funny angle. This rules out a lot of cars for me these days sadly. I had a Peugeot 107 for a week recently and I loved the car (for what it was), but had nasty shoulder pains for weeks afterwards. I have a dodgy back too, so comfort is very important to me.
Good controls. The second test a car must pass for me to like it is that it must have controls that respond linearly to inputs (goodbye Porsche & Vauxhall), and without any lag on them (goodbye all non-M petrol BMWs). I've bought cars that have laggy controls and driven cars for long periods of time without linear controls, in the hope I'd get used to it, but nope, it just winds me up too much. I don't mind turbo lag too much, which is obviously a lag and a non-linearity so you'd think I would hate it, but provided it happens in a straight line I'm fine with it - straight lines don't really interest me.
Going Further - Once a car passes the above tests, then my priorities start. These are the things that make me love a car, rather than just get on ok with it.
Good ride/damping: This is either a black art or manufacturers skimp and save on dampers and their tuning, because not many road cars get this right.
Feedback: I prefer cars with good feedback through the chassis and steering, the more the better. I also like feedback to be equal from the corners of the car (compare an Elise with a Caterham for example).
Handling 1: I like to be able to interact with a car in the corners and to feel as if I'm in control. Good balance is a nice to have (such as my BMW has), but not essential (I love Lotuses, and they're inherently unbalanced, but that's ok because the handling and interaction is so good).
Handling 2: I like to be able to access understeer, neutral-steer and oversteer at will. Not full blown massive slip angle stuff (not on the road anyway!), but I like to be able to adjust the slip angles at front and rear accordingly. Some people will say this is unsafe on the road, but on the contrary, I don't feel safe driving a car that won't allow me to do this. A car is always generating slip angles front and rear and I like to interact with these to create a desired effect.
Handling 3: The lower the CofG, generally the more I like a car. Even if a car handles well, but has a high CofG, it's not really very satisfying for me to drive it.
Good gearbox: Everyone likes a nice gearchange. The best I've tried in a road car is the Honda S2000, with the NSX and CTR coming very close.
SizeThe less of it the better! This also applies to a feeling of size - i.e. how much confidence you have to place the car where you want it. Caterhams are about as good as road cars get in this department.
Good examples of the above, i.e. road cars that I like driving, are any Lotus (if we assume the 2-11 isn't really a road car, then the best I've tried is the current Lotus Exige V6), any recent diesel BMW 1/3 series (last gen without M-Sport, current gen with), BMW E92 M3, the Honda NSX, any BMW E30 or E36, Toyota MR2 mk1 and mk3 (I've not driven the mk2), Mazda MX5 and any Caterham. There might be others, but those spring to mind initially.
Finally, there are specifics for each category of car that I own:
Daily Driver: For me this must have roof bars at a sensible height for lifting heavy things on (chest height), it must be as quiet as possible on the motorway, and I must be able to get my cello and bike in the back. My BMW 320d is the best I've had.
Track car: It must excel at all of the above things, and I find good performance nice too in a track car (good acceleration, braking and cornering). My Lotus 2-Eleven is the best track day car I've had, and for racing (i.e. non road legal cars) I like slicks and wings single seaters - my 2-Eleven feels very big and heavy compared to a good single seater.
GT car: I don't have one right now, but it's long been a dream of mine to have a third car for big euro road trips. This car must be fairly civilised at speed, but have lots of character, e.g. from a nice engine. I've not driven many cars from this category, but if magazine reviews are true, then a Ferrari 550 would probably be my favourite (to date I've just sat in one, not driven one).
Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 18th December 16:18
Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 18th December 16:19
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